What would you buy if you could?
 

Now that certain robot part suppliers are on the market, many teams find it better to buy rather than build resource intensive items. There are many great solutions out for wheels and transmissions, but what else would teams like to see made available?

I really don't want to turn this into a BUY vs. Build debate, so save strong opinions for some other thread. This is more of a brainstorming list of commonly needed items that are resource intensive (time, money, specialized machinery, specialized knowledge...) The reason I bring this up is from experience in Solarcar and other design projects I have all too often seen talented students tied up in endless hours of CNC or conventional machining for marginal gains in performance relative to a part they could have purchased off the shelf (i.e. hand made Titanium Lug-nuts for example). Also with a new control system next year, having ample programming and practice time will be essential.

To start things off, I would love a cheap off the shelf 3 speed transmission. Basically similar to the Dewalt's but an easier interface with a slightly higher capacity. (Overdrive has me addicted to high speed robots, but most FIRST games require a pushing gear too).

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

i would like to be able to fix our andymark 2 speeds because we are always stuck in low gear which i believe is the reason we lost in the quarter finals in florida if we could have kept up with 103 and the others we probobly would have placed higher



other than that i would love a cvt(continuously variable transmission) for the robots!

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Some type of arm pivot with a gear reduction box built in would be really spiffy...we spent a long time designing and building this in 2007. Of course I have no idea what it might even look like, or what material/shape members it would be designed to work with.

Also some type of more useful chain (or belt) idler/tensioner would be oh so helpful.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Powered Omni Wheels: http://www.jenniferlynnwikler.com/Ho...ic%20Base.html

Hey Andy, how about AndyMark bring something like these to market? I bet you could do them for under $400 per wheel so they are FIRST legal. :D

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

electronically controlled flow rate valves for pneumatic positioning i.e. not just in or out. LDAR, and binocular vision systems for really cool autonomous. as well as a closed loop motor control package that works right out of the box. we can all dream cant we?:rolleyes:

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I would not be surprised to see AndyMark in the future release a crab gearbox.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Are you talking about some sort of shoulder joint for a large arm? Or are you talking about something more like an small pivot arm for the window regulator motors?

All-
Love the feedback so far.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Only thing I would consistently purchase instead of build would be the drive train transmissions. Next year we may mill our own wheels, but usually those are purchased as well. Past that, I only ever see us purchasing sensors.

I think we will always design our own tensioners/pullies simply because the specific need must fit the application, orientation, and sizing constraints. I think we'll also always design any sort of nitinol (memory wire) applications if FIRST ever rewrites the rules to make it useable. Nitinol isn't that powerful of a mechanism but like pneumatics it has many places where it's useful and desired.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

A light, easy to mount, gearbox that cannot be back driven, and could easily interface with several of the KOP motors. This would really be especially helpful for jointed arms and manipulators.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

CH Flightsticks.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Ditto--with a USB interface for the new system. Those sticks are better than the ones they give us now... Still working, too, after years and years.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I expect that a few different sizes would be needed....think shoulder, elbow, and wrist....

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Amen. We would pay a whole lot of money to be able to by new Flightsticks.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I would love to have a Contex Z450 3D printer. just think, all you would need to build custom gearboxes, mounts, custom fasteners, and any other small part you could ever want; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyZtBYG0QOg

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Get a reprap for (comparatively) really cheap, though it's only for small parts.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

The things I'd probably buy:

-A better interface for the window motors. Imagine an AM Shifter, but with only one shaft (which interfaces with the output of the motor) and the holes to screw the window motor to one plate (or both, if there are matching units in the KoP). Stick a half-inch shaft in the middle of those plates, and we're in business. That's something I can bolt on just about any part of our robot and not have to worry about those black hubs (or the things stuck in them) wiggling one way or the other.

-Encoder (or pot) hooked to a shaft. It'd weigh more than just incorporating one into a custom design, but I'll suck it up more often than not in the absence of fabrication abilities.

-A mechanical brake. Not for any definite purpose, mind you; I just know I'm not the only person who has yearned for the ability to make something that spins stop spinning.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

While the reprap machine is cheaper the Contex can print in color, and has an
integrated bead blasting chamber. Now if money was no object I would love a pair of Craftsman AXS 13 drawer toolboxes complete with custom paint to match
our team's colors, billet aluminum casters, internal tool charging caddy, and cold cathode accent lighting. http://tinyurl.com/6klfyj

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

XPS 720 H2C - Windows Xp 64X

My Components
Intel® Core™2 Extreme QX6850 (8MB,3.67GHz Factory overclocked)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Service Pack 1
4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs
500GB - Seagate 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
Dual Drives: Blu-ray Disc Combo (DVD+/-RW + BD-ROM) and 16x DVD+/-RW
24 inch UltraSharp™ 2408WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
nVidia GeForce 8800 GT 512MB
AGEIA® PhysX® physics accelerator
Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeGamer (D) Sound Card
Bose Companion 3 Series II Multimedia Speaker System
SteelSeries 7G Gaming Keyboard (ships separately)
Razer Lachesis Laser Gaming Mouse (ships separately)
Dell Bluetooth Wireless Media Hub + VOIP Stereo Headset
Dell Media Card Reader included in Dell Bluetooth Package

For my birthday, please?

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

There's lots of things I want that can already be bought on the internet... I just want them to be cheaper. I love the stuff that Banebots has been coming out with though.


Have you looked into disk brakes for bicycles? I believe 1540 (?) used one on their 2008 robot:

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

oh. my. GOSH! that is so simple! i love it. How is the tension applied to the brake, piston or another motor?

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I have usually seen it done with a short-throw pneumatic cylinder...

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Here's to that!

We too used a piston actuated bicycle disk-brake. Worked great!

Other things I might add:

-Cheap hubs for the Colson Wheels (yeah you can buy these, but they aint cheap)

-A lighter alternative to 80/20 for linear motion (possibly with bearings). It would sure make building elevators a lot easier and lighter :o

-Cheap carbon fiber tubing.... (aint gonna happen :( )

-A cheaper alternative to Berco-Flex for treads (possibly one that was an off-the shelf component rather than a customized part). Snow-mobile treads are cool... But not long enough... :(

-7075 aluminum gears and sprockets. Come-on AM, 6061 just ain't gonna cut it.

-Improved BaneBots. We'll actually get this one! Yay :D

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I've heard good things from FIRST teams about FN Sheppard

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Those bicycle disk brakes are pretty inexpensive, around $35-$45. for the cheapies:

http://www.rei.com/category/40001152

http://www.blueskycycling.com/cat-brake-disc.htm

Here are some electric brakes: http://207.56.183.208/brakes.aspx

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I'd like to buy the world a home and furnish it with love,
Grow apple trees and honey bees, and snow white turtle doves.
I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony,
I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Hahaha. You made my day.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

There seems to be some confusion about the intent of this thread. I think it's about "what new product would you buy if someone started making and selling it?". Some people seem to think it's about "what would you buy if you had they money?"

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Titanium C-tubing for robot frames, no one makes that...

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Squirrel is right in that my intent was for things currently not made that if they were made for you you would purchase. I do like a couple fo the tangents as we too have been looking for a good mechanical brake. The bike brake idea is one we have tossed around but never tried. Thanks for the posts on that.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

most teams have the money to purchase these, but electric solenoids. Now FIRST just needs to allow them, I don't want to use pneumatics all the time.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I would like to have a compact variable speed mechanical transmission something like this one, though it probably works in one direction only:

http://books.google.com/books?id=wSQ..._brr=1#PPA3,M1

http://www.google.com/patents?id=_Ml...ad=0_1#PPP4,M1

Maybe old Ludwig Dieterich was on to something. He did have a number of patents...

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Those printers use a type of glue-impregnated ABS, if I'm not mistaken. The parts they make are fine for some applications, but they're really meant for prototypes. I wouldn't trust anything critical to that machine.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Found another one. (link) (disk brakes on the same page)

Nice compact little module.

Ahh yes... And I found this sprocket (1/2 down the page) don't know the exact dimensions but I bet you it will fit the window :)

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

This one apparently uses heated ABS (see "How does the process work?": http://www.dimensionprinting.com/3d-...nting-faq.aspx

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Would you buy a 4 speed gearbox, spur gear style? Also its lighter than the supershifter. Thatz what i would want.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Would you ever really need four speeds?

There comes a point where you cannot go any slower than a certain speed because you are traction-limited by the coefficient of friction of your wheels, and nor would you be able to go above a certain speed because the distance needed to accelerate to that speed would be impossible on a FRC field.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Maybe, maybe not. But you could utilize 2 or 3 of the speeds at the least and its still lighter than the supershifter. Also think about offseason events and all the things you could do with different speeds (pull a track, have a robot race with all you robots, show off to the community).

Think about it for a sec:

08:

-Needed an extreme high gear for the straightaways
-A Middle gear for turning and good handling
-A low gear to play defense on hurdling robots and for those times of traffic jams.

07:

-Needed an extreme high gear to go from one side of the field to the other
-A middle gear for turning and a good handling of the bot
-A low gear for what a lot of teams did, play defense.

06:

-A high gear to go from side to side
-A second gear for turning and handling
-A third gear for staying on the ramp
-A low gear for climbing the ramp

In my opinion there is a need for it, thats why people use dewalts. But with dewalts there are so many mods and only a single cim so far. The shifting is terrible. Also what if your programmer can make a line of code that would allow easy on the fly shifting. Your in normal gear and when you press the right trigger, bam, high gear. Your in normal gear and when you press the left trigger, bam, a low gear with pushing power.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I'm going to agree with arthur. 4 is a bit excessive. I would think 2 is the most you really need. 3 is nice (although it is easier to build a 4 speed gearbox than a 3 speed).

I want linear bearings for regular 1x1 tubing. That would be nice.

-Vivek

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

That is why i said four speed, an extra gear would just available and 4 speed is extremely easy to build.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Something similar to this:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/31607
would be extremely useful, if that is what you were going for.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Just remember that shifting is never instantaneous.

Some of your circumstances where you list as needing three or more speeds can be accomplished with two (or even one) for less weight and less complexity. Or, things like greater control while turning can be accomplished through code algorithms that can "detect turning" and limit the maximum turn/spin rate of the robot instead of adding weight to add another speed to your transmission.

I'm not saying that designing and prototyping a four speed transmission is bad; on the contrary it would most likely be a great learning experience for the mechanically minded people. But the practical implications on the FRC competition field would make any benefits limited, as once you go above two or three speeds, it would probably be less complex to design and fabricate a CVT transmission than a fixed ratio one.

Robotics is not just about solving problems mechanically*; it's about finding the most efficient solution to the problem at hand.


* As much as I wish... Who needs a gyro when you can build a south pointing chariot? :rolleyes:

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

The main reason for the 4 speed tranny is that i've seen some teams use the most out of one. I forgot the team number, but i will post it after i find it. But thanks arthur for your input.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Yes, something like that, if commercially available, would be great. Especially for teams with limited machining capabilities.

-Vivek

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

My question to CD and to the FIRST Community is if a 4 speed tranny was avaliable and it weighed about the Super Shifter (probably less). The price would be a tad bit more, would you buy it?

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Oh wow what a list... but here's a few of the tops:

>A Hurco VM2 for the team with a 4th axis or maybe even a VMX series with a two-axis trunnion table.

>A box full of Sick LIDAR units.

>Some high-frequency 16-bit chopper drives that use some kind of serial communications instead of PWM.

-q

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

A 4 speed transmission that weighs less than a super shifter, and only costs slightly more?

I think those two parameters are incompatible. If it weighs less, the cost will need to be a lot more, due to the added machining required.

I don't think there's a big market for 4 speed transmissions. You can accelerate to top speed faster if you use an algorithm to shift at the optimal points, but other than that, I can't really think of a use for the middle 2 gears.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Cory think about it, a supershifter with three more gears added. The only thing that has to be machined is the shafts

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

But for it to be lighter, you need to lighten all the gears, which adds significant cost to the product.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Those might actually work with the Compact Rio too! Coolness!

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

how bout a radio frequency that can go through plexyglass

(we had radio problems)

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

I would love to buy the complete knowledge and good skills of/for CAD.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

Camera head set for the drivers to wear to get video of the field when they drive.

A pass to get onto the catwalks in Atlanta to take pictures of the fields from above.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

C/D is drifting a bit off of the original intent. My original intent was for a list of products that people would like to be made and not "What would you buy if you had a million dollars?"

Thanks to all who have answered so far.

Re: What would you buy if you could?
 

If it was out and if it worked with the control system the OCZ Neural Impulse Actuator would be an awesome way to drive a robot. http://tinyurl.com/3lnmkj

Some teams use Xbox 360 controllers or Joysticks to drive, but with this you control your bot with you mind!