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do volunteers benefit from Labor Day?
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What difference does a day make? |
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I do believe there is a little kidding involved.
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I think all the evaluators deserve a tremendous thank you. I can't imagine trying to evaluate 159 essays in 15 days or less. That's 10 a day, as a volunteer. I have a feeling that at least some of them will be giving up part of their holiday to work on this.
I'm very glad I'm not in their position. |
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Still nothing! 10:10am Arizona
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1:08 i see nothing, i was hoping for something before school got out
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This is like waiting for Obama's VP text.
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Maybe CNN will leak it!
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I heard today that there are actually only 15 systems that will be spread around from my mentor who heard it from the regional director. Don't know how accurate it is but its a reliable source. This makes chances of getting the system very very low.
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E-mails have been sent out and only 18 kits were provided who were the lucky ones?
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I just received the official notice from FIRST. There are 18 systems to send out to the beta test participants.
The TechnoKats aren't getting one of them. |
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Just got our turn down email, but no list of accepted teams. Came here to see if there was a list!
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MOE 365 just got our letter also. We are not getting a system either.
Here is the letter we received... ================= Greetings, Thank you for applying for the 2009 New Control System Beta Test. Unfortunately we were not able to include you as a Beta Test team. We were only able to supply 18 teams with test kits and the final decision by the Woodie Flowers Award winners selection panel was based on a combination of strength of application, experience and geography. We appreciate your willingness to assist us in this project and wish you the best of luck in the 2009 season. -- FIRST Robotics Competition (p) 1-800-871-8326 x 0 (f) 603-666-3907 frcteams@usfirst.org www.usfirst.org |
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As of a minute ago, Bill Miller was logged onto the FIRST Forum and his activity was shown as:
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WOW.
moe and technokats don't get once? i wanna here from 1114, 111, 330 and 25 now...they are my bet =] |
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Good Afternoon Teams,
Please join me in congratulating the 2009 New Control System Beta Test teams. Let me tell you, it was a real challenge to choose only 18 teams from all of the well qualified applicants. I have already contacted these teams to share the good news and will ship them their supplies as soon as the beta test kits are complete. The beta test teams will begin to share their results with everyone shortly after receiving their kits. Stay tuned, I’ll let you know where to find their comments. 16 Bomb Squad, Mountain Home, AR 39 39th Aero Squadron, Falcon Robotics, Gilbert, Phoenix, AZ 67 HOT – Heroes of Tomorrow, Milford, MI 79 Team Krunch, Palm Harbor, FL 103 Cybersonics Technology Team, Kintnersville, PA 330 BeachBot, Hermosa Beach, CA 340 Greater Rochester Robotics, Churchville, NY 476 Wildcats, Ponca City, OK 499 Toltechs, San Antonio, TX 668 The Apes of Wrath, San Jose, CA 1114 Simbotics, St. Catharines, Ontario 1425 Error Code Xero, Wilsonville, OR 1577 SteamPunk, Raanana, Israel 1583 Rambotics, Watkins, CO 1629 GaCo (Garrett Coalition), Oakland, MD 1714 More Robotics, Milwaukee, WI 1816 The Green Machine, Edina, MN 1848 SOUP, Atlanta, GA 122 days until Kickoff! See you then. |
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Same letter here.
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the list:
Good Afternoon Teams, Please join me in congratulating the 2009 New Control System Beta Test teams. Let me tell you, it was a real challenge to choose only 18 teams from all of the well qualified applicants. I have already contacted these teams to share the good news and will ship them their supplies as soon as the beta test kits are complete. The beta test teams will begin to share their results with everyone shortly after receiving their kits. Stay tuned, I’ll let you know where to find their comments. 16 Bomb Squad, Mountain Home, AR 39 39th Aero Squadron, Falcon Robotics, Gilbert, Phoenix, AZ 67 HOT – Heroes of Tomorrow, Milford, MI 79 Team Krunch, Palm Harbor, FL 103 Cybersonics Technology Team, Kintnersville, PA 330 BeachBot, Hermosa Beach, CA 340 Greater Rochester Robotics, Churchville, NY 476 Wildcats, Ponca City, OK 499 Toltechs, San Antonio, TX 668 The Apes of Wrath, San Jose, CA 1114 Simbotics, St. Catharines, Ontario 1425 Error Code Xero, Wilsonville, OR 1577 SteamPunk, Raanana, Israel 1583 Rambotics, Watkins, CO 1629 GaCo (Garrett Coalition), Oakland, MD 1714 More Robotics, Milwaukee, WI 1816 The Green Machine, Edina, MN 1848 SOUP, Atlanta, GA 122 days until Kickoff! See you then. |
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330 getting it means most of SoCal will, too. Coalition application, with about half a dozen teams.
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Odd
No teams in New England at all. No teams even close geographically. |
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Who's farthest away?
Our closest is 300 miles. Doesn't make me real happy but I know there has to teams further away than that. |
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Now, how about posting all of the documentation for the rest of us?
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Team 103 is honored to be selected as one of the beta testing teams. Over the coming weeks we will be posting updates, on a seperate thread as to what types of meetings and seminars we will be hosting to educate the surrounding teams.
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woot woot 103!:D
I so can't wait to hear what these guys have in store for all of us PA and NJ teams. Should be seeing some pretty sick ideas. Even if your team didn't receive a new system, would teams care to share some innovative ideas they have and sent in with their application? I for one want to see the ideas some teams have of what they will try with the new system. These are some ideas that my friends and I had that we will be implementing during the season hopefully. All student ideas and we have planned how they would work. Please post up any ideas you have. |
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Perhaps someone should consider starting a new thread soon, starting with the list of beta test teams and ideas for coordination of testing and documentation communication efforts?
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I suggest thread titles from teams heading up their areas. IE:
"Beta Testing with team 103- NJ, PA, NY" whoever creates the threads, please try to keep them in the same format so its easier for teams to find what they're looking for. +0.02 |
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Since the Beta Test Teams will have a copy of the beta template including sub-vi's, I hope this will be posted so that all of us can become familiar with the code.
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I put together a quick map of all the beta test teams.
I think the closest teams geographically are 340 and 1114, but there is that pesky thing called a border between them. Other then that, there seems to be at least around 300 miles between beta test teams. |
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YEAH TEAM KRUNCH!!!
sorry for the teams that didnt get them |
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I am glad to see that at least one team from Florida will be receiving this beta system. I hope team 79 can give us a demo at Mission Mayhem and TNT.
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we plan to demo at TNT, Mission Mayhem and Robot Rodeo
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Congratulations to all the teams selected!
I want to make a request of those teams selected. Testing the system at the sophisticated end of applications will certainly help work the bugs out of the system (which is the point of a beta test.) Our proposal was based on creating a scripting language similar to what Robolab provides teams in FLL so that the less experienced teams would have less of a curve, and could piece together an autonomous program as FLL teams currently do. While there are a number of reasons I feel this is necessary, one was to dissolve some of the mystery surrounding an effective autonomous that seems to limit many NYC teams from even attempting it. I know that the selected teams have a lot of work ahead of them. I also don't know if teams have already planned to do what I propose (in which case, would certainly explain why they were selected!) If this is the case, I apologize for being redundant. If teams have not proposed this, I ask that in the course of creating a detailed test plan for the 15th, the selected teams also include a plan for development of some additional tool that will directly benefit rookies, along with documentation that will help them use it during the 2009 season. Just a suggestion - I can't wait to hear about how the playing is going! Congrats again, Evan |
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The West Coast got three Beta Test systems: 330 BeachBot, Hermosa Beach, CA (Los Angeles area) 1425 Error Code Xero, Wilsonville, OR (Portland area) 668 The Apes of Wrath, San Jose, CA (Silicon Valley), about halfway between 330 and 1425. Thanks to Joe at 330 for the quick map! Gary |
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Uh, yeah, 1848 in our area, SOUP!.
Does anyone have their website? |
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SOUP does not have a website on TBA. |
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My apologies if this is already a part of beta tester plans, but well, I don't know that yet. I expect the beta testers will soon share their plans to deploy information to the rest of us. :) I'm sure this is obvious, but the vast majority of FRC teams will not be able to attend local offseason events or any demos or seminars beta test teams may hold at their facilities. Posting videos online, and enabling online access to your most beneficial informational sessions (via live webcast or videoconference, if resources permit; additionally, via video or voice archiving after the fact) would serve the greater community at large. Joe's map illustrates the large gaps that exist within the beta tester net (all of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio is one such gap). Such gaps are inevitable given the limited number of control systems available. As beta test teams are out of physical reach of most of the FRC community, I encourage you to use Internet multimedia to bring remote teams closer to you and make the online learning experience almost as good as being there. Of course, substance is much more important than style, and time is of the essence, so I will forgive y'all if the presentation of the online resources is a bit rough around the edges, as long as the core content is meaningful. You can always "make it pretty" later. :p Good luck, and thanks to all who are taking up this challenge for the betterment of all. :) |
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From my point of view, all it means is that I'll have to drive a bit further to visit. Please be sure to post somewhere a list of when you'll be meeting, and where, as you should expect frequent visitors. Matter of fact, all the beta teams really need to do this. Some teams won't be able to visit, so beta teams, please post videos, photos, words, whatever - let's stretch communication technology a little here! - so the rest of us can see just how good you really are... Don |
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We will post information online, including our software (labview). Other useful information like guides and probably media will be posted. From all 18 teams most resources and topics will be covered.
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Just a reminder to all Beta Test teams. In order to get your controller you must sign the FIRST disclosure agreement. This form "indicates your team agrees to disclose information on the new control system when FIRST gives permission to do so during the beta testing process and not before." (Bolding added for emphasis). So before you start making plans on when and where you plan on holding seminars, remember that we have to wait until FIRST authorizes us to release information. I just don't want anyone putting their cart in front of their horse.
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Thanks to the WFA committee for processing a crazy number of beta applications and narrowing it down to a great list of 18 -- it could not have been easy.
And, congrats to the 18 beta teams! If there are gremlins in the system, we, the FIRST community, will deal with them.... you just need to find them for us. Now go forth and test, test, test! |
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For Team 340, I want to say that we are extremely excited for the opportunity to test the new control system.
We have a large density of teams in our immediate area and we will work closely with those teams yet at the same time we recognize the scarcity of this opportunity and will try our best to supply all teams with the very best information possible. 2009 has begun and we can't wait to start doing some Beta testing! |
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Cass :) |
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So, remember... disclose information on the new control system when FIRST gives permission to do so during the beta testing process and not before. |
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I thought I would just post a reminder out there about being respectful and understanding of the teams who were selected for this beta test. I am sure that all the teams chosen will do their best to bring the information to the community.
That being said please remember a few things.
I am sure there are a few other things that teams should think about but ultimately it comes down to this. FIRST is doing us a favor by even allowing this beta test to happen, don't turn it into a bad thing. Lets try to avoid the saying: "no good deed goes unpunished" and leave the teams who are putting the hard work in for all of us with a good feeling at the end of this by not criticizing them. |
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FIRST made an excellent choice in selecting Team 103. Congratulations! |
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So how did the whole multi-team application thing work out? Did FIRST just pick one team on the application? I'm just curious.
Congratulations to team 668! And to our partner 254! This will make for a fantastic display at CalGames, and perhaps a WRRF workshop? |
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Now one could say that if it hit the public someone might be able to quickly fix the problem. But as the complexity of the task increases it will be hit or miss if the problems can be solved. From reading posts over the past year or so since the new control system was announced I have come to realized that people are very nervous about it and the last thing we need at this point is a mob mentality spreading rumors. |
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In 20 some years in the field of technology based controls I have seldom learned much when every thing went right. The best education came from experiencing the "trials and tribulations" involved in developing new knowlege and understanding. Not that we need to see the semi-hysteria surrounding the bane bots transmission failures again, we did however, see some valid growth in how to tackle a serious problem from within the first community. My vote is for the conservative publication of all development issues so that next january we'll have some idea of just what the questions are. If history is an indicator, we'll always have someone who inadvertently repeats the errors of the past, but learns from it. P.S. I'd like to just see the thing up close. |
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The requirement of openness in the announcement and the NDA warnings seem at odds. This is only my first month mentoring, so I haven't seen the reported panics that mis/partial information have caused. It's part pure curiosity and part self-preservation (a ton of new information and kickoff coming like a runaway train). My real concern is getting the technical documentation. What does WPILib contain? How do we interact with the I/O? Is there a timed control loop? Is it multi-threaded/multi-tasked? What Wind River tools are we going to have? What features will be in the FIRST specific LV that is being supplied? If we at least know the structure of the default program and the abilities of the underlying system, we can start to consider approaches. I realize that the beta program is probably a check of the documentation as much as of the hardware. The announcement said that shipments of the systems would start on Sept. 15th. so if it is going to be a serial process of release to the beta teams, update, and then release the remaining teams, the non-beta teams are probably not going to see the documents for 8-12 weeks. The first rev of technical documents are usually full of ambiguities that the writers and the people close to the project don't see because the resolution is obvious to them. I would like to see all of the documentation available and a forum where we can start commenting and asking questions as soon as possible. |
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Notice that the Beta teams are supposed to sign a Disclosure agreement, so they will release all their findings when authorized by FIRST. I am sure FIRST has a well thought plan to release the information.
Rumors wont do anything other than hurting the integrity of the community. Here is a great example. All most of the people on here know is that team are supposed to sign an NDA. and everyone is arguing about it. while they have no idea what it is actually about. and we don't even know weather FIRST plans to release the documents to everyone or not. So just hold your breaths for a couple of weeks till we have more information and don't judge FIRST's or the Beta Testers Plans with the limited information available as of now. Thank You ps. We are as eager to spread accurate info as soon as possible as you are to get the info. |
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ps. I grew up in your area. I graduated from Meas High in 1962 and ASU in 1967. If it's OK, I'll PM you next time I'm going to be there visiting my family. I'd like to see your operation. |
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I asked about when and what we get to share as soon as I got the notice that we were in the Beta program and I saw the NDA.
The response I got back was that the timeline and parameters will be listed on the Beta Team web site, which we will get access to once we complete the registration process. I'm sure that we will make our experiences known as soon as we are allowed. I would be curious to know how many teams are planning on using Lab View vs how many are planning on using C++ (Workbench). |
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Congrats 1114, we can't wait. (Not like this was obvious 1114 would get it):p
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A housekeeping issue:
If you are one of the selected teams, you should have received an official notification of Beta team test status and a follow-up email. If you haven't: contact frcteams@usfirst.org Apparently some spam filters have been working overtime for some email addresses. |
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I won't really speak to the issue of the NDA and whether it makes sense, as it's FIRST's decision and they obviously have their own opinion on whether rumor mongering and misinformation will be better or worse in an information vacuum... But I do have a suggestion for them and NI, since I haven't seen any indication that someone has already thought of it.
Obviously, they want to get info out to teams as quickly as possible once they decide it's appropriate. Presumably, they want to expedite the training process for teams by requiring the beta test teams to hold seminars and release code and etc. But they must surely know that the training and code releases are fairly meaningless to any teams that don't actually have the coding environment to work in. Trying to work with and learn from Labview code when your Labview install doesn't have the required modules and you don't have the subVIs is about as productive as trying to learn about the .NET APIs by looking at someone else's code in notepad. It's possible, but it's going to be slow, painful, and incomplete. As I recall, it's not even possible to do some of the things you need to without the Labview RT module. So teams giving seminars could be in the difficult position of having to demonstrate everything in step by step cookbook fashion thoroughly enough that the attendees will be successful when they finally have software to work with. I know FIRST has pledged to get hardware and software to registered and paid teams as soon as feasible, but even then that doesn't help rookies and teams that can't get money right away. Given FIRST's close partnership with NI, though, there's a pretty simple and cool solution. NI has an online demo environment of Labview that's kitted out with every module available. You can't load or save external files of course. But I don't think it would be incredibly difficult for NI to set up a second, FRC only server that's running the version of Labview we'll be using and that's pre-loaded with the default code and tutorials. In fact, you could even update the environment on a regular basis to update the FRC support code, add new tutorials, post beta test teams' example code.... All sorts of things. I, personally, think this would be a brilliant way of making training extremely accessible to any team that wants it and doesn't happen to live near a beta site. Like, london, or brazil, or a rather large percentage of the US. |
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Sounds like a great idea, specially with LabView
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BTW, go and hug your local NI rep today...:D Don |
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What an incredible Opportunity! My favorite community has been given a chance to Prove it.
Real words, txt, etc. Flying around our Earth. I’ve had the benefit of being on the list of a few of the Beta Teams. Holy Smokes Friends, their plans far exceed what is being discussed here. Define, Attack and Disseminate. They are so excited. So… There will be many sources of information. Will CD be one? NDA notwithstanding, can we have posts that begin, “My guess”, and “I read somewhere” and on and on? I am soooo looking forward to what all/y’all come up with. . |
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So really, it's probably better all around if the beta teams don't talk much till FIRST lifts the NDA and we don't pester them with questions and idle speculation. PS. Yes, I realize just how silly it is to call for CDers to not idly speculate about something like this. |
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With regards to the flow of information, we need to keep in mind that FIRST has asked the teams to sign a DISCLOSURE agreement, not an all encompassing non-disclosure agreement (NDA). FIRST is providing guidelines as to how it would like the information to be disseminated, their intent, as they've increasingly demonstrated recently, is to have as much open sharing of appropriate information as possible. Greg nailed it in his earlier post a lot of it is trying to prevent a mob mentality and provide a safety check for posts. Keeping the discussion focused and appropriate will be more productive and allow teams to quickly pick up what's relevant and necessary without reading through all the idle chatter. I want to point out that the disclosure agreement also serves the practical purpose of requiring teams not to disclose the contact information of FIRST staff/Beta Test Support members. The staff supporting the beta test will have their hands full in supporting their efforts as well as getting ready for the '09 Control system launch. Being inundated with requests would diminish their abilities to serve the Beta test teams and complete their tasks for the entire FIRST community. FIRST is venturing into uncharted waters in this new era of information sharing and FIRST community involvement to which I think they should be commended. I've been assured that there will be a healthy number of Beta Support personnel, and the Forum Moderators will be actively working to get productive discussion approved and posted as quickly as possible. Let's give them a chance and play by the rules they specified and try it out. Teams, FIRST has not restricted your interactions with Beta test teams, so do get involved, send e-mails, offer to help, make arrangements to get over there to observe and participate. I'd be lying if I told you that I wasn't nervous :ahh: about the transition to the new control system, but knowing that we have a lot of FIRST teams working together provides some SOLID comfort that we'll get over any bumps together and things will be alright. FIRST has also not restricted Beta Test teams on showing the control system at public events, so be prepared to see it at off-seasons and other demos and have questions ready for those teams. Alright Beta Test GAME ON |
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Definitely a big Congrats & Good Luck to the Beta Test Teams... you have A LOT of work ahead of you!!
I have to say Im sort of suprised/sad to see how quiet this has all gotten all of a sudden, for something that so many teams (well at least 159) were excited about, it all seems on lockdown. I havent read the actual document that the teams had to sign Disclosure or Non-Disclosure, however it reads, but I guess I sort of expected the Beta test teams to be looking for input for their test plans. I know a few threads were generated, and perhaps some of the teams are discussing on their own forums or lock down forums or via email with local teams, but I would guess that the formation of the test plans could use input from any teams with ideas, and other than the quietness on CD, I havent seen much of anything on the FIRST forums (am I missing something?), and no real Beta test discussion on the NI forums. I was thinking of maybe looking up all the websites of the beta test teams and checking their forums... I'll post that later if I find anything useful. We are fortunate to have a team within an hours drive of us, but I have to imagine this is painful for the teams that arent within weekly driving distance. |
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I'm thinking that part of the quietness has to do with the beta test teams not having their units yet. The other part, of course, is the disclosure/NDA.
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can brandon set up a forum or subforum for the beta teams to release info, when they have permission
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So, to me, the teams still need to get some direction from FIRST, and then I predict the floodgates will open.... Don |
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Hi guys, my name is Prashil Patel from Team 1727 REX, I just had a question that..how can we buy a new control system(beta Testing)...because we did apply for beta testing but they didnt choose us..so we decided to buy one..but we r not sure where to buy it..can anyone please guide through??
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The quickest way to get one is to register and pay promptly.
http://forums.usfirst.org/showpost.p...65&postcount=4 |
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thank you very much guys!!
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Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System
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http://sites.google.com/a/neofra.com/2009controlsystem/ This is a Google Site I have put together to try and organize 2009 control system related information for the local teams in my area. I expect it to change and evolve greatly in the coming weeks. We'll see where it goes. Collectively, I haven't seen much activity on the beta tester websites I could locate, but I didn't expect to find much of anything....yet. Beta Test Teams/Groups - as this project continues, feel free to point out links to new information that doesn't yet appear. I'll update the NEOFRA site links accordingly. Team 39's group appears to intend to share information online with the rest of us, via their forums. They've already posted a link to a LabVIEW training video. Thanks to them for taking the early initiative! Beta Testers - No one is more in tune with your operations than you are. If I make any mistakes or omissions in what I post to the Google Site, you are welcome to contact me via the NEOFRA email address and provide better link information for the benefit of all. :) For now, I'm just being proactive in setting this up during the "calm before the storm", as Don put it. I've got the patience to wait until the teams actually RECEIVE their systems before expecting information to flow. Anyone in the community is welcome to suggest new content links for the site above should they discover something useful that the NEOFRA site hasn't caught. This includes some "Web Gems" - videos, NI demo software links, online tutorial links, etc. that aren't a part of any BT-published content. I expect to further categorize site links once specialized information begins to appear. Finally, this site is not meant to supplant any centralized online repository of information FIRST might release in the future. It is primarily a resource for my local NEOFRA teams in Northeast Ohio, and I'll continue to update it to serve the best interests of that group. I provide the link to the community at large it in the hope that it might also become beneficial to even more FRC teams. However, neither I nor NEOFRA provide any guarantees to that effect. Everyone is welcome to browse the site at your own risk. :) Quote:
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Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System
I've been wondering if it would it be helpful to suggest that teams put 'Beta Test Team' under their username and/or in their signature along with link information they wish to provide.
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Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System
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Done |
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System
Once there's something to discuss, don't you all think that FIRST will provide a medium for that discussion/exposition to take place? Perhaps a moderated section of their forum, or maybe they'll set up a new blog.
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Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System
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Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System
yes there will be a forum as mentioned on bills blog, also there will be demos and open meetings at the team's locationfor anyone that wants to visit. this is blanket across all beta teams.
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Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System
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