Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I've always been a PC user and actually teased mac owners for owning a Fisher Price...Anyway, I accidentally broke my last laptop and ended up returning it for full price. So now, I've got an extra $1000 but no laptop. I see Apple sells a Macbook for $999 and gives a free iPod Touch. I don't know why it's pulling me towards it. I see engineers use macs all the time, is there any reason why? I'm really torn on buying on...I know my friends will never stop teasing me since they all know I've been anti-mac for years.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I'm a PC user at home and a Mac user professionally. As laptops go i'm using a Intel based MacBook with 1GB of ram. I'm rather happy with it. The design is really nice for the most part. The magnetic power adapter is a great idea and keeps you from damaging the computer when someone accidentally trips over your cord. The only problem with the design is that top of the keyboard cover, right next to the touch pad, cracks do to too much pressure applied when closed quickly (My school has been getting free replacement for these).

The roughest part about the transition to a Mac is the lack of a right click. You can use the Apple key + click to do it, but I found it easier set a preference to use a "two finger" click as a right click (leave two fingers on the trackpad while clicking).

On the whole a mac is a great little laptop. If you are planning on using your laptop for specialized software, CAD for example, mac aren't the best thing for you. You can set up a duel boot rig but i've had limited success with them during robotics season. Windows runs rather slow.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Behold the Mighty Mouse!

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

But my lap doesn't have room for a mouse ;-)

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

On a completely off topic note. Apples portable computers are actualy refered to as "Notebooks" not laptops due to the heat produced by their batteries, the weight and other reasons. Most portable computers anymore are not actualy marketed as a laptop due to these reasons, as a matter of fact it actualy said somewhere in my ibook G4's manual not to place the computer on your lap as you could get burned.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

And sterile. I want kids some day...

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I've generally preferred Macs. It's hard to quantify why, unless one has used a Mac for several weeks. After using them for a while, there's a lot of things about them seems less stressful than Windows. I hate sounding trite when I say they just work, but the level of "maintenance" they need as compared to Windows is like night and day.

And one of the best things I like is that Apple has great customer service. If you go to an Apple store, they treat you well, as any decent company should. It's the exact opposite of many other PC companies, like Microsoft or Dell, where if you try calling their tech support you get transferred to India or Taiwan or who-knows-where, just to sit on hold for twenty minutes because you are just a person and not a corporate customer. If I pay $300 for your operating system, I hate being treated as a second class customer because I'm not a huge corporation.

But don't get me wrong, when my new iMac gets in later this week one of the first things I'll be doing is using Boot Camp to install Windows Vista 64-bit. While I expect to stay in OSX like 90% of the time, I still need Windows for SolidWorks, CAM, and some gaming (though I'm by no means what one would consider a hardcore gamer).

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I am a pretty hardcore gamer. However, being a hardcore gamer, I already have a desktop gaming rig for that.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I've used Apple for about three years now and I like them a lot more then PCs. I use I-movie to make videos and I-photos to store the pictures. I like the layout it had and to get rid of that annoying no right click problem, just plug in a normal USB mouse if you can. Apple seems very clean cut and there arn't many viruses for them (my team tells me that's because no one would want to even touch a Mac because people don't like them that much...)

I'm not sure if I helped but I'm all for Apple!

Renee

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Well, Macs have the advantage of stability, something almost no PC can say, and, as mentioned, they just work. Our coach / CS teacher uses a mac for these reasons.

What I recommend, however, is to get a PC and install a linux distro, Ubuntu works pretty easily. But that's just me...

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Let's not be over dramatic here. Like i said before, I use both a Mac and a PC (my own build) everyday. The stability of the two systems are equally good.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I actually am rather well versed in most other major operating systems including Windows, RHEL, Solaris, Ubuntu (and other distros of linux). I do have Ubuntu dual booted on my gaming rig. Actually, I decided to go the cheap route of using Wubi. Not exactly dual booting, but good enough, though there are SOME minor annoyances. Funny thing, I'm typing this on a Mac right now in one of Purdue's computer labs. As far as stability goes, I don't really have any problems on any of my operating systems. I can't even remember last time I had Windows crash. In fact, I've had to restart X so many times due to Ubuntu hanging. From my experience, Ubuntu has more lockups than XP has had for me.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Well when Mac comes out with a new OS they simply say if your old equipment doesn't work too bad buy new stuff. It's easy to keep things stable that way.

When you are a small player you can get away with that, Microsoft doesn't have that option.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Me too.

I don't have enough experience with modern Macs to have any opinions about them....

Apple has finally figured out what they need to do to be competitive with the rest of the computer industry, it's nice to see they're giving people like you a serious choice now!

I'm low budget, so until they make that offer at $499 I'll stick to the cheap windows based machines...mostly building my own.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Eh, when set up well, Windows can and usually is fairly stable, but there are a lot of holes in the security which can be exploited if you don't install all the service packs and security updates (which is probably why they're security updates, then). That having been said, I've never had a crash or a problem with my Ubuntu computer, but I have had a whole array of problems with all my PCs. Maybe it's because I've had the PCs running on Windows longer, but still... Additionally, as someone said, they control all the hardware in it, so it's going to be more stable because they can make sure everything interfaces perfectly.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

And this isn't how it is with Vista?

The current OS, 10.5, is supported by machines that came out in 2002-2003 (includes the low end machines too). Can you run Vista on your computer from 2002 without much upgrades the same way I can run 10.5 on my 3 year old PowerBook?

Fear
Uncertainty
Doubt

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

sorry, with that price, i can build a computer with twice the ram, a real video card (9600GT or better), and a 4600+ duo and all storage medias.

That's the biggest difference between a Mac and a PC. You can get twice the PC for the same priced mac. Mac will never be more than a nitch market until that changes. Oh, and when they start having games written for them again :-)

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Actually, yes

My mid-range computer that i built in 2003 easily has the specs to run Vista with Aero. However, for even the low-budget or older computers, you could use Vista Basic or just not use Aero

I can use Vista easily on a 5 year old computer, 2 years older than your powerbook running OSX.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

That isn't a laptop....and it's not $499 with an itouch, is it?

As for comparing macs to old PCs running Vista, that's just silly! Everyone knows you need to wait a few years before you adopt the most recent MS operating system. I finally upgraded to XP last fall, before that I was running windows 2000.

In the world of linux, the latest release is best. In the world of Macs, the latest release on the latest hardware is best. Windows doesn't work that way, and it's best to accept it for what it is.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

If I was back when I was just doing graphics work and prepress stuff there is no doubt that I would prefer a Mac but most of the printers and software I work with now won't even run on a Mac (half wont run on Vista yet.) The platform is just too limited.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

The only thing that I can say is that when you buy a mac, be happy with it for good. They will come out with a bigger, better model for the same price within a few months, and you just have to live with it.
Also, for some reason I remember you making fun of me for liking macs, so I will laugh at you. :D

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

As I said earlier, you can have a system from over 6 years ago and it run the newest version of OSX. I said mine just as an example.

I want people to stop lying about Apple hardware and the perceived "you have to buy new to upgrade" BS. It's simply not true and is arrogant ignorance on your behalf.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

dude, relax. it's just a computer :eek:

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Yup, it's just a computer, and a computer is just a tool to do things.

Plenty of people are die-hard Mac lovers, plenty of people are die-hard Linux lovers, and plenty of people do all they need acceptably well with Windows (like me). Which just goes to show, it doesn't really matter what kind of computer you use, as long as you can do what you want with it.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

You might build a PC with twice the specs for the money, but I get a computer with half the stress.

I'll attest to the long-term durability of Macs--we had one in a college computer lab for most of my collegiate career, and (aside from a bad call when ordering--get AppleCare, folks!) it was the least trouble I ever had with a lab machine. We deployed four iMacs by the end of my senior year to replace the Dell computers that were at the end of their lifespan, and they are a dream to administer. The four computers (Anderson, Blanchard, Dillon, and Flair--the Four Horsemen) are all ridiculously solid, particularly on the keyboards that take the brunt of most college students' two-in-the-morning-essay rage. Mac OS X is easily locked down to keep folks out of apps they have no business in (Terminal comes to mind), and Winclone allows ridiculously easy imaging of Windows XP on all the machines. I still preferred users to use OS X's guest account, which reverts to a squeaky-clean state on logoff with the right restrictions, but I could just as easily come in and roll back an XP partition in about 20 minutes. (I'll also note that the lab was closed for the switch on a Friday night and open in time for the Sunday night paper crowd. Aside from a wee bit of heavy lifting, the entire deployment was a one-man operation.)

They're a tool, a more expensive tool, but I firmly believe that this is one case where you get more than what you pay for. If I can get folks who begged me to put back in a Dell going on Mac OS X in a few hours (true story) and switch completely after over a decade of Windows in about a day and a half, anyone can switch. :)

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

It's not about the computer, it's more about the fact people are just shelling out to stereotypes and preconceived notions when someone asks for advice. How would you like it if someone started spouting off half-truths when they ask about your team, school, where you live?

My sister is using a 2001 iBook with Tiger. My one friend has Leopard on a 2004 PowerBook, etc. I've worked with Macs on a close basis for nearly a decade now, I know when to call a spade a spade (sub-par graphics cards on consumer machines? how about the mighty mouse? etc) but I'm not going to let someone get bad advice. It's not about a computer.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I too have been considering going the Mac route for myself or my children.

I have heard folks opine that with that with a Windows box you get way, way more than twice the susceptibility to viruses, worms, trojans and other major headaches.

Anyone out there care to offer a reasoned opinion about how they compare in the security dimension? Windows OS's do seem to be as leaky a sieve when it comes to security holes. How do Macs compare?

Blake

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Windows is often unstable not because of the base OS but because of the terrible bloatware that companies like HP and Dell put on their machines. If you buy from a company than you have to delete that bloatware to have a stable environment. If it is a desktop, I would just buy the parts and put it together, and then have a clean install of Windows. I put my current computer together last September and have not had Vista crash or lock up, ever.

However the only problem I have with Macs is the lack of gaming potential and the price. For what you get, Apple is usually WAY overpriced. However, if you aren't a gamer (or already have a gaming rig) and can find a good deal there isn't a particularly good argument against Macs.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Greetings Blake,
I have been using a PC for 22 years and I have only had 3 viruses. All three were caught and cleaned by Norton. Windows XP is secure as long as you take a few precautions: stay on the brighter side of the internet, have a good anti-virus software installed and updated and don't open any file that you don't know where it came from.

Macs have the benefit of being the "white knight" of the computer world. Folks just haven't seen them as target to write viruses for. This had changed changed recently with viruses directly attacking macs coming on the scene.

As of today, if your primary concern is security, the mac is your choice hands down. If you are more concerned with getting the the most computer for each dollar you put into it, I would personally go with a PC.

@Joe:
It's a difference of opinion; Nothing more, nothing less so, relax :)

@Bill: Deepfreeze. enough said. :]

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I had to laugh at this....my keyboard that I use every day is a good old Model M Space Saver from IBM, made July 28, 1992. Works great.


Anyways....I shudder at the though of having to manage computers that others use...I get a taste of it with my kids, who are very smart about this stuff, but still get into a few things that make me wonder (mostly on the programming end).

There are many instances where it would be worth the extra cost to get something better than I can put up with, which is an occasionally upgraded old PC.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

But apple has teh cooties... :D

I think if apple products came into the same price range, I might consider it but I can live with windows in all it's unstable glory. I've had a good run with it so far and don't see a need to change.

That isn't to say that you shouldn't experiment. Maybe you could try a macbook for a few weeks and see how it feels.

my 2 cents, Vivek

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I have been using my Mac(macbook that is) since last november now, and I have to say that I have turned on my windows comp four or five times since(for gaming purposes).

I can do anything and everything ALOT faster and easier on my mac than I can with windows. And I often find myself straining to use windows computers when I get on them from time to time. I miss the little stuff on mac. Like today I had a thumbdrive in a windows comp and before pulling it out I had to eject it, went through the long windows way of "safely ejecting" the thumbdrive; were as on mac i would just drag the icon down to the trash, or hit the eject button in Finder(or better yet "Command+E"). Things like that ups the frustration level of using the windows computer, after using a mac.

About the hardware. I have seen my macbook run twice as fast as windows computers that have better specs than me. In my head that says that you might not be getting the best hardware for the price, but the software is a whole lot better at running the hardware.

I also have found that there are more useful free apps(lets not go into how easy it is to install something small) that are easy to use than I ever have on a Windows.

If you are looking into using a computer for productivity, than get a Mac no doubt, but if you want games and CAD ether get a high end mac or buy your self a windows computer.

P.S. Someone on my team got the highest possible config for the macbook pro, and that things runs windows like nothing I have ever seen, but he states that he almost never boots up into windows.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Yeah, just today I went to all the effert to move the mouse down to the little green arrow in the lower right corner, then click on the little one line dialog box that popped up, so I could eject my SD adapter. Took the better part of a second. Although not doing so does not seem to cause any problems, as long as the light on the adapter is not blinking when removing the drive.

I've seen some of the youtube comparisons of macs and PCs booting, and I wonder how people can set up their PCs to work so slowly. Or maybe they don't understand that you can disable all the stuff that comes on them. Mine boots in about 45 seconds. My wife's work computer takes about 5-10 minutes, depending on how the network is feeling at the time....but she works for the government, and they have some really bizarre security stuff.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

State budget. Enough said. ;)

Put me in the zero-viruses column; the occasional security hole is revealed, but there's almost always a workaround published with them (or within the next day or three following). Can't bust 'em.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I haven't picked up any viruses either, been on the internet since 1995, never use any AV software, and run Windows. But I don't use MS applications on the internet.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I must admit, I'm a Apple guy now. Last month I bought a 15" Macbook Pro for about $2600 and got the 3 year warranty ($250?) and a free 8GB iPod Touch and a free printer. I installed Vista on this laptop, as that is what my college prefers, and strangely enough, what I also prefer. I found Vista to be a lot faster than my 3 year old Dell laptop, but that can be expected. What was not to be expected is another friend on Fusion got a huge gaming laptop that was not as fast as the MacBook Pro, but about the same price and much larger. I came up with this conclusion by using the Windows Experience Index.

Processor: 5.4
Memory (RAM): 5.1 <-Lowest one, therefore, my score
Graphics (Windows): 5.9
Graphics (Gaming: 5.4
Hard Drive: 5.3

From Windows Help: "The base scores currently range from 1 to 5.9."

So you can see that it is a very good computer, and an excellent notebook.

My specs:
2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo 6MB L2 Cache
4GB RAM (32 bit Windows sees 4GB, only uses 3GB, lends spare GB to graphics)
200GB Hard Drive @ 7200RPM
Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT w/ 512MB Dedicated, 1270MB Shared
Screen Resolution 1440x900
802.11N Wireless
Bluetooth
Gigabit Ethernet


I guess that pretty much covers the specs.

My only complaint is the heat this thing makes. Apple runs the fans at a very low setting, even lower in resource hog Vista according to things I've read. It become unbearable to use on my lap running Windows unless I set the fan to high before I run windows. I use SMC Fan Control, which works great.

PS: I use my MacBook Pro for gaming as well. I can pull about 100fps on a regular Half Life 2 Deathmatch map with all settings at high, same with Portal and Garry's Mod. Of course, on more complicated maps the fps drops, but not to an unplayable level.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Wait how is it you are able to run vista on a 5 year old computer while I barely can run Home Basic on a 1 year old computer that was made for vista and came with it preinstalled? The ironic part of it is that OSX runs perfectly fine on it!!!

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Probably because it came preinstalled. Try a clean installation....

I've never done the vista thing (I'll wait as long as possible), but I know with XP it's easy to make it zip right along if you do it right. Preinstalled windows is mainly designed to sell stuff, not work well.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Or Linux. There was a study I saw once done (I don't remember the details of it, but I could find it if desired) found that most PCs are compromised within about 3-4 hours if left without a firewall / security software and just doing normal tasks, whereas a PC running Ubuntu, again without firewall / security software, lasted over 4 months, and the "problem" was something negligible. Add to that the default firewall which runs on the latest Ubuntu release and you have a very secure system.

I think Mac OSX was compromised sooner, but I don't remember if it was even in the study.

That being said, with proper precautions, Windows can be just fine (I just have seen the light and left it).

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I read something of that nature as well. Three computers(mac os,vista,ubuntu) running right out of the box. Mac OS was the one that dropped first, but it was because of Safari. If anyone on here is using Safari or IE, lets be real get Firefox.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Or Opera.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Well, I got my new laptop. However, it was not a Mac. I got an HP tx2000 series tablet for about the same price as a macbook. However, this has some pretty cool features (Turion X2 Ultra 2.10 GHz, 3GB RAM, lightscribe burner, Wacom touchscreen and the works). I dunno, I don't think I'm "ready" to go to a mac yet. Thanks for the input though.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I just got a new computer. My Mac G4 400 with just under a gig of memory couldn't keep up with technology. It worked fine but slow compared to my newer PCs. I now have a dual quad core 2.8 gig Mac Pro with 6 gig memory that just flies. I had no trouble installing Vista (not what I feel is a good system) as it was recommended for the game I want to get.

I have a PC and Mac. I always recommend to new computer users to go with a Mac. I am able to connect easily remotely and help them. I know that is also an option with the PC but I have always had issues.

This past year there have been two die hard PC users that I know that turned to the light and got Macs. After some small helps and a little playing around they both say they wish they had moved over earlier.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

So the theory is that there is no intrinsic security difference Microsoft's various operating systems and those of Apple?

If I'm a hacker and I look with equal attentiveness at both families of operating systems I will find equal numbers of opportunities for new mischief?

Seems a bit out-on-the-fringe; but thanks for the advice. I'll keep my eyes open for corroboration.

Blake

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

That's exactly what i'm saying. As Mac's market share increases, the security risks for mac users will increases as well. If you are a hacker, you want to make as much trouble for as many people with as little effort as possible. Why spend the time working on an OS that only 7% of machines are using when you can hit the OS that holds 91% of the market? (MS's rep for being the "Evil Empire" hasn't helped either) Linux will probably be the most secure in the future do it its extremely small, yet devout, user base.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Congratulations on the new computers; they both sound good (I'd take the Mac, though, but that's just me)... and if you need Windows, then more power to you.

I don't believe that Mac or Linux are secure simply because they don't have the large market share. Both are based upon Unix, so my following example will apply to both:

Most servers are run off of Apache, which is Unix based, and only the minority use the Windows server edition (I don't have numbers, sorry). Despite this, most hackers hack Windows servers. Why? Because it's easier. Apache just isn't worth it to them due to the effort, not the lack of usage.

This also applies to Macs and Linux. Once they have a larger market share, sure, there will be more attacks, but they won't ever equal the amount on Windows.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Lets say Mac someday owns 90% of the market. There will be more successful attacks on Macs than on Windows. I won't get into which has better security, because, honestly, I don't know, but there will be much more effort to attack macs and more success with larger numbers of users. One reason that Windows may appear to be not secure is that with more people working on hacking windows, there are more successes, and it gets hacked faster than other systems, thus appearing weaker.

Its really hard to say one system has better security than another. Its sort of like what causes a person to be how they are? Upbringing or genetics? Its highly intermixed and at some times can be either or both and its uncertain which it is.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

True. I'll agree to Mac having security issues if it gets a large market share (but I don't believe it will have as many, but they'll still be there). I like to believe my Ubuntu distro is more secure than Windows, though... It makes me feel superior.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Although the small market share is part of it, the UNIX backbone of the operating system is the main reason why Mac and Linux are secure.

Here's a few examples of why mac is secure: (found on this website)

1. OS X is built on UNIX. UNIX was a multi user system with a security architecture built into it at the beginning. WINDOWS came from a single user architecture with security and multi user capability as an after thought.
2. UNIX had networking built into it from the beginning, again in Windows this was bolted in at a later date.
3. Windows built Internet Explorer into the O/S at a very deep level, and allowed code execution within the browser. In OS X the browser is a completely separate application, its not a integral part of the OS. IMHO, this is the fundamental screw-up Microsoft made, as they created so many hooks into which someone can attack the OS.
4. In earlier Windows everything ran as the system user, so the capability to compromise an entire system was easier. (see reason 1)
5. Microsoft’s backward compatibility mantra doesn’t do them any favours as to run old software they need so many old APIs, all of which can have holes in them.
6. OS X has no registry. IMHO, second fundamental flaw Microsoft made.
7. OS X asks for your password before allowing you to run new software or install something. Not fool proof, but at least fool resistant.

Although I am a Windows user and have never owned a mac, I have to admit that mac does have a much more secure backbone to the operating system.

However, with a larger user base, I'm sure that viruses would develop, although probably not as many as for Windows.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

NickE: exactly what I haven't found the words to say. Thank you.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

In my opinion, macs are just more intuitive to use. But that is just me. Best bet for anyone is to try it out and see if it works for you. Personally I use Quicksilver and very rarely use the dock or my mouse for that matter.

Dual booting under that latest version of Bootcamp is quite nice as long as you have a defragmented hard drive. The fact that Apple does not ship with a defrag utility is a real pain to me. And I don't care if it claims that HFS+ never needs to defrag.

The cost argument really bothers me. Earlier today I spec'd out a Dell notebook to the same specs as to the white Macbook. Guess what the price difference was? About a $100 to Dell. Yeah it is cheaper from Dell. When I first went to buy my computer I didn't want to buy from Dell, to me they use cheap parts and I like my computers to last. (Just my opinion) So I was looking at Sony and Lenovo, those computers spec'd out the same came out to either at or above Apple's price. Apple computers are made of relatively high quality parts. Yes you could buy cheaper components for a lot less but I don't like downtime due to broken parts.

Just my opinions.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-dgNQgcz2k


Yeah, it's probably worth about as little as mine :)

All computer makers have problems, so personal perception of quality is probably as good a criteria to go on as any other.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I don't think a Powerbook quite counts as "low end." :cool:

That said, my roommate runs 10.5 on a 4 or 5 year old G4 iBook (which is quite low end). It's pretty slow, but if he put another gig of RAM in it, it'd run absolutely fine.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

Yeah, the issue with thermal grease in the mac book pros would of been another good one. Though I am a firm believer in if you package something well it will be perceived as high quality. Course there are always flaws in quality control, something about real world and such.

Im honestly surprised that this thread hasn't turned to flaming like most such threads do.

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I think you have stumbled onto something there. Windows is just that: Windows while Macs are an OS and the hardware. They have more control over the environment and feel of the computing experience. I wonder how different it would be Apple allowed clones.

Oh, and the lack of flaming comes from one thing: We are discussing/arguing the topic and not the person. Who says you can't have a mature conversation on the internet?

Re: Why must Apple draw me towards them?
 

I got a Dell XPS M1530 in January with specs literally identical to RyanN's Macbook pro.

I spec'd a MBP at the time, and it was $3200 for the same configuration that I got from Dell for ~$1700