Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

With a new fall season coming up, I was curious to discuss what people think are the major barriers of entry as to why schools don't get involved with FIRST Robotics. Then possibly brainstorm what we and FIRST can do to lower those barriers. The way I look at it, the more we help those up and coming schools looking to Robotics right now, the more teams are likely to register in the late fall.

In my opinion there are to major hinderences:
1) Communication - basically getting the word out there and keeping people connected
2) Program Costs - $10,000 is a huge startup investment.

What can be done:
1) Better district level institutions - ok, so I just came back from a church district training conference but I realized that FIRST has almost no foundation in terms of supporting regions with teams. We have a huge huge way to go to match existing organizational structures. As I see it, FIRST sets a global agenda that is like clearing fields but its left to only other teams to plant seeds and then individual new schools to tend the crops. I don't know how much people know about Church Planting... but thats a huge burden to place on new people.

2) More Scholarship funding for start up- I thing one of the most successful programs I've ever witness is the NASA grant. Having just a small amount of money to "start the spark" is a huge help. From my experience, a team really can't begin to coalesse and take shape until there is a garenteed amount set aside to pay for the kit, if not the whole robot. It will be interesting to see what happens when I go back to Owego (for the third time) and say hey I'm willing to donate X just to get things going. But lets face it: $10,000 is a huuuuge amount of money and from new people perspectives can be used on alot of other things.

Thoughts?

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

True, we were facing the same problem when we started in 2004.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

I think that the time commitment for Mentors is a large barrier. Our team almost shutdown in our second year because we had trouble getting a teacher willing to make the time commitment. Until schools are ready to treat FIRST like they treat sports, many schools will not find teachers willing to mentor.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Another major issue that I would assume faces many teams not just the team i was mentoring in 2006 was something called NASSP National Advisory List of Student Contests and Activities. It was very difficult to encourage an activity like FIRST when the school was unable to allow the team to access to school resources without resistance or allow student to travel without sending them on "parent sponsored" field trips. For a while 1747 was working with FIRST to get on this list but I am not sure what came of it.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

I think having a willing teacher and good tech program is key. That to me is the top reason why schools don't join FIRST they can't or don't have a teacher that wants to be dedicated to the cause year in and year it. My five years of experience has shown me this not that this is alot. In my community this is what I c going on besides the issues already mentioned:money, other programs,etc.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Our County has been very good with accepting FIRST. We, as well as a number of other teams in the county, have shown what FIRST is all about to our Superintendant of Schools and he has fallen in Love with FIRST. By 2010, I believe, EVERY high school in the county will have its own team. And, I’m not sure about a timeline, EVERY middle and elementary school will have a Lego League Team (most already do).

When school administration doesn’t understand FIRST then lots of barriers get put up. They tend to just see the huge price tag. Also there needs to be a willing teacher or someone who is able to spend countless hours running the team. It’s not like a small sport where they meet for just one little part of the year. It’s a year round commitment. Not to mention some areas just don’t have the companies that are able, especially in these times, to put up $10,000+ a year.

Maybe what Michigan is doing is a step in the right direction. Some smaller low cost competitions where more teams can afford to compete.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

In the 12 mile area around where I live there are 10 high schools and 5 teams.

I don't see why we need anymore teams. If all five of those teams doubled up with another school everyone could participate for less cost...

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

it all depends on were your at i know that all of the 10 teams from puerto rico that competed and the orlando regional worked out of the same building


one of our mentors has got'en the brevard county school system interested in lego league for midle and elementery schools

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

in no particular order...

Faculty - Finding a full-time teacher to coach the team isn't always easy, even when it's a paid position. The time devotion is a major drawback for many new teachers, who may be pursuing Masters or PhD, or being actively engaged in their social life. It's a lot easier to get older teachers involved, as many are already married and received all the degrees they wish to attain.

Resources - A FRC team needs a lot of stuff: lots of space for robots/parts/materials/tools, a lab or shop to build the robot in (preferably one with tools), access to computers for CAD/3D animation/website/etc, keys/security code access to the school for those late nights and early mornings during the build season, a place to drive the robot and assemble [mock-up] playing field components, and preferably a long-term storage space within the school.

Funding - This is a major issue. Whether it is justifying the funding to school districts looking to start teams, or trying to recruit sponsors and hash out a business plan. It's something that is constantly on the minds of nearly all FIRST teams, even the "established" ones.

Attitude - There are a lot of schools who are about only two things: meeting the minimum requirements of No Child Left Behind (and similar state measures) and sports/band. The best strategy here is to convince one administrator or teacher at a time, and slowly start building a coalition to support FIRST. This can take quite a while, and it needs perseverance, but tackling this attitude is part of the "changing-the-culture" aspect of FIRST.

Similar Competitions - They may already have an extensive pre-engineering curriculum, or participate in BotBall, Battlebots IQ, or other robotics competitions. In this case, this is one place where you don't really need FIRST, since they already "get it" when it comes to STEM.

Mentors - It can be hard to recruit good STEM mentors to your team if there are no good engineering/technical companies in the area. Parents also make great mentors, but some schools have strict rules on who can be involved with any school affialated activity.

School Rules - Anything from insurance reasons, to paying for janitors, to accessing the school during off hours, to attending out-of-state trips, to having non-school personal interacting with students in a school-sponsored team can all be nails in the coffin for potential teams.

Religion - You won't see many Amish FIRST teams. :)

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

That's absolutely amazing. Hopefully you can be model that every other region can then follow. I firmly stand by the FIRST vision of having it be available to every student across the country. Of course, one major impact of this is that fact that I was in 8 different schools growing up and NONE of them have FIRST today. We have alot of work to do. However, when the energy is placed on "evangalism" there are two problems I for see.

1) Media word of mouth will never be enough. Once someone has created a team, they are likely to be content with the work and people they have, thus not feeling the need to expand outward.

2) If the burden is placed on current teams, alot of them don't have the time, talent, or resources to provide mentorship or guidance towards the communities they live in so that those communities want more FIRST Teams.

Personally I would love to work for FIRST. Not IFI, but FIRST as their equivilant to a District Executive that the Boy Scouts have. Executives (in the Boy Scout sense) are responsible for maintaining the vitaltiy of their region in terms of quality programs and applicable numbers. Their districts are only a few small cities in size, so basically I would invision such a role as supporting Binghamton, Ithaca and Syracuse. We have a loooooong way to go before I see that happening.

Right now as I understand it, we only have Regional Executives like one for the entire NE and their main responsiblity is focused on Regionals. Thats a huge area of coverage AND we are missing the other side of the coin which is supporting those teams that already exist.

Here is another example of how I see FIRST as a Movement:
1) Our goal is to start a forest fire
2) We only have a box full of matches
3) Often we try to light full thick logs of wood
4) Then we wonder why it doesn't catch on.

If we REALLY want to get this off the ground, smaller scales and smaller regions are critical. I'm not say we should end things as they are now. Far from it. How ever there must be some middle ground so that new institutions can feed and grow into what exists today. What was VEX I see as a good beginning step, but lets face it, there is a massive difference between it and FIRST Robotics.

Personally, I think we need MORE off season completitions. Smaller, family friendly events that have easy access. Many identified prerookie teams are even able to have donated robots to compete. Now... just imagine how HUGE it could be if prerookie teams were allowed to invest say $2,500 into substidized old parts from IFI (like just a drive train) for offseason comps. Then we say, your allowed to use that drive train in the upcoming season since these are your basic buidling blocks. If you can't afford the $10,000 price tag for a full program it might be enough to get in the door and be hooked.

Think small, dream big, change the world. There is something to be said about a gradual growth process. Us FIRSTers are not good that "thinking small," but alot of people do and then we wonder why its so hard for them to catch our enthusism.

I also recommend people look into the work thats been done in Church Structures. Yeah I know, religion bad word. But if you think of them interms of communities it really makes sense. I think we need to understand some of this theory work if we as a body want to expand and grow. These Structures are built around size and resources. Like wise, these Structures have their own unique needs and orientations:

1) Family
So think of VEX as Family. Or, we really might not have a family struture. These are communities that are laylead lead, with only a few people of shared vaules. Having a robot in of itself is a major accomplishment. Right now I don't think they have a home. I should think on this and see if I can come up with some more applicable theory work.

2) Pastorial
I think this is where 75% of teams are at. The focus is around a "minister," which would be the teacher and a few key engineers. Great stuff, and its very personal. I'd say Chuck falls into this catagory. These are teams that enjoy qualifying round, but may not have the talent yet to always get picked.

3) Program
These are the teams who try for lots of different awards with in FIRST. Everyone can't do it all, and there is specialization by interest. There is likely even specialization within components on the robot. These are teams at regionals who frequently pick and get the most excitement in eliminations. They make it to Championships when ever possible.

There are also huge barriers to go from a Pastorial to Program structure, which I won't go into. I would say Division by Zero falls into this catagory. I also think a major source of frustration for me on Chuck, is this is the environment I thrive on and there is absolutely no interest in becoming a Program structured team.

4) Megas
These are the Legends. You recognize them, not just due to sheer size but also the tremendous amount of good work they're able to level. While usually lead by a few key visionaries, their success and energy is a major force of staying power. I'm talking your teams like Moe and X-Cats. You would be hard pressed not see them at Championships year after year. They always step up to the challange of winning Chairmens or making those elimnations.

Good stuff I hope, and its amazing the things you learn at a Leadership Training Camp.

:D

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

But drop one match on the ground in the dead leaves and small, rotting wood and what happens?

That's what happened with VEX/FVC/possibly FTC. We went to a smaller scale, lower cost and it caught on like wildfire. But, as fires go, it needs fresh fuel.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Talking with the technology teacher in my hometown it was cost. He has a supermileage team that runs on a budget of $1500 a year. While they feel that the program would be an awesome experience, they feel they can't justify the expense.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

How about the attempt by Michigan FIRST to address alot of these issues. As mentioned in this thread, FIRST is handling a lot of the large scale issues and schools are in the lower levels of details. The Michigan FIRST program should help to fill the gap.

Any thoughts?

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Even as a team that has participted in FIRST for 3 years now we still have major difficulty entering the competition each year. The problems really fall into two categories: Money and Faculty.

Money has always been an issue for us. In terms of school funding, we get next to nothing. Our school board won't sponsor us, and our school is only willing to give us $50. So we always have to find a lot of sponsors each year. Luckily this year we found a great sponsor/mentor who helped us greatly.

Faculty is also starting to become an issue. Our team only has one teacher sponsor and it is not reasonable for us to ask him to supervise us every meeting. He's a very busy person. We found another teacher sponsor to help us this year and that has helped, but faculty is still a big issue. Our mentor offered his shop to us, but that brought up another problem and that's transportation. Most of our meetings are held after school and bringing 20 or so students to his shop is difficult, especially in Canadian winters. :p

School rules are also a problem, but luckily our principle is fully behind the robotics program and even found us a very generous sponsor.

However, I think for most teams, these are the common barriers to entry.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Brevard County in Florida has an awesome superintendent who is really pushing the program and its wonderful. However in Orange County next door they barely know we exist and have enough problems with finances as it is so that expecting a school to come up with 10K while having to trim 7% out of every school budget just wont happen.

The good news is that you don't have to have a school in order to have a team. We are a 4-H team and as such we don't have to jump through hoops. It is a huge commitment from parents and other professional mentors but there are many of us so the risk and responsibilities are spread out. We have to raise all of our own money but so do lots of school teams.

I think the money and time commitment are what keep schools from joining. Our parents run the team so as long as their are kids who want to be in FIRST, we will have a team.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

one of our mentors lee johnson got the superintendent of Brevard county interested in lego leauge for all the middle schools and elementary schools in the county


with 1557 being the only team in our entire county its hard to get things going because we are the only ones, we do a presentation at the local streetfest and arent really having that much success but we did recieve a very generous donation from two former mentors of 1902 who recently moved to eustis!

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

I've been trying to get a school to join the FRC. Their main problems are the fact that they cannot get the start-up investment or mentors to help them.

Another big factor for a rookie team is that many people on that team may not be sure if building a robot of that magnitude is possible in 6 weeks (I used to be one of those people...).

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

some probably dont have money in their budget or the facilities:ahh: :yikes: :ahh: :yikes: :ahh:

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

artdutra04 hit some great points. There's a lot of talk about expense and lack of mentors, and those are indeed legitimate concerns, but don't underestimate the more "mundane" difficulties faced by teams, like lack of work space.

Our rookie year (2007), team 2007 (funny coincidence, eh?) was lucky enough to be given a spare classroom for a workshop. This past year, though, a county magnet school (somewhat ironically, science-, math-, and technology-oriented) displaced us, and we were relegated to, well, a closet.

Were we crippled? No, we managed, but it was a severe inconvenience.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

A major barrier for all teams, including school-based ones that struggle for teacher involvement, is turnover. 4 years ago Jupiter High was one of three local schools approached by GE employees interested in forming a team, & was the only one to accept when its Engineering Academy teacher, Mr. Z. (a former Team 180 mentor), agreed to be the team's faculty sponsor.

4 years later, Mr. Z. (still the team's only teacher) wanted to move on & reclaim his classroom & storage space for academy use. The team's rookie year students who participated all 4 years graduated in May 2008. JHS's supportive principal retired. Although the team has several strong underclassmen, the loss of experienced students, parent-mentors, the team's one teacher, principal & facility have been a huge hurdle.

MARS has dealt with everything by partnering with a second High School in the area (welcome Dwyer High!), recruiting a Dwyer teacher as faculty sponsor, & relocating to their campus while still being a part of Jupiter High. They've met with JHS' incoming principal gaining her support, & with her help recruited another Jupiter teacher. This summer has been an incredibly busy time & without year-round meetings the team probably would not have been able to continue in 2009.

So...I agree with everything already mentioned: faculty involvement & lack of incentive for teachers, workspace, $, communication, restrictive school rules, etc., and add "turnover " into the problem mix (although as stated this is not unique to school-based teams)

By the way, it was great meeting Team 1557 at Eustis' Street Fest. Part of why MARS has been able to deal with its problems is how hard they've worked on community outreach by participating in similar events. Dwyer High was amazed when Jupiter High's award winning & known team approached their cross-town school rival for help.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Here's another Barrier - Regional Economics.

I was reminded of this when I heard on the radio today that 5 different local communities voted down 5 new school levies and 1 renewal levy in yesterday's special election.

That and the Youngstown, OH area was named one of the 10 "fastest-dying cities" by Forbes.com (I think elitist editors revel in making people feel worse by publishing such drivel).

Try starting up new teams in that climate. Fun times.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

And the above is exactly why they need STEM programs like FIRST. Good luck finding someone with vision enough to see beyond todays problems.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

For those who live in such a downtrodden community, there is a distinct difference between dreaming about the ideal future and actually making it happen within the REALITY many here trudge through every day. Change occurs at a much slower pace here against a much greater resistance, to the point where even the mildest of victories that are considered trivial or meaningless in better-off communities are celebrated as major achievements locally by those who attempt to affect change. People who think an entire community will up and reverse decades of entrenched mindset overnight are deluding themselves!

Many of these failed levies are for basic school repairs and operating expenses. Extracurricular programs are being cut and families have to pay to play at many schools. If families are reluctant/unable to vote for those basics due to personal finances or bitterness generated by their employment situations, do you think they are going to get right up and throw money and time at STEM programs?

It was inevitable - some generation had to pay the price during the region's transition from the corporate-subsidized, high wages and benefits with little more than a high school education days to the go out and get a college degree in order to obtain a secure, well paying job (and even that relative security is in question for many degreed people working in this area any more.....).

A few high schools and the local universities (Youngstown State and Kent State) are actively working together to pursue and integrate STEM initiatives into school curriculums. YSU is attempting to rally local industry to the cause as well, to create a pipeline of STEM-based students from school through to college and eventually into the local workforce.

Our local U.S. Representative Tim Ryan is very pro-STEM and understands the need to transition the local economy away from manufacturing toward more high-tech endeavors. He recently worked with several veteran local FRC teams to secure $180,000 in funding to startup new FIRST teams locally. We will have one new FRC team from the area in 2009 funded out of that amount. We're hoping that by bringing this and the NASA grant opportunity to the table, schools will be willing to "take the bait" and start up new programs, get their communities and local businesses interested.....well, you know the rest.

There are also several business incubators in the area attempting to attract high-tech industries to startup/relocate here.

These are all noble efforts that run counter to the notion that the area is "dying". However, it still takes an entire community of people to "buy" what these relative few are "selling". The number of people involved in these STEM initiatives pales in comparison to the size of the disaffected general population here who have lost much due to downsizing and shutdowns. You don't walk up to their door and shout "STEM!!!!!" in their faces and get them to do cartwheels in the streets after they just lost their jobs or had their wages cut in half and pensions slashed. You'd be lucky to walk away without receiving a fist to the gut.

Bottom line - it's going to take some time to break people out of their rut and see the light of change - much moreso than other relatively better-off communities in which these high-tech initiatives are more readily embraced. So yes, regional economics and the voting attitude of the communities toward their school districts definitely play large roles in the rate at which area schools adopt FIRST as a program.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

it also has to do with the industry in the area in lake county there is not really any big companies besides disney which is already one of our sponsers if theres no industry then people wont feel the need to support something the prepares people to work in the industrial field






by the by Pat if you want to come to one of our meetings we are having on this thursday from 6-8 pm the address is on our website

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

It's all about the cost; every time I try to recruit an area high school the reception is very positive until I explain the money envolved; at that point they lose interest and state the cost is prohibitive.
Less cost = more teams!

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Well then - Don't affiliate with a school!

Teams need one or more students and one or more adult mentors. School affiliation is not required. Just ask MOE or all the other teams that are not a part of a single school or school system.

I feel that far too many of the posts in this thread assume that affiliation with a school, and that school's faculty and facilities, is the one and only way an FRC team starts or survives. Well, an affiliation of that sort simply is not necessary (It usually helps, but it certainly isn't necessary; and lack of one should not be a show-stopper).

If a lack of school support, faculty support, or school facilities has been stopping you or your team from moving forward - I suggest taking a step back and re-assessing your situation - Maybe that particular type of support isn't really necessary after all, and the path forward is more clear than you realized....

Blake

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Cost and facility needs can be a challenge but I think the biggest struggle is TIME. It takes a lot of time and effort for a new team to start. Money and mentors can always be found but there is no way to get more time. Some are intimated by what they see and don't think that they can ever do it. Some don't realize what a commitment this program requires and never really get off the ground.
Solution to most FIRST related problems? 26 hour days.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

FIRST is a great program. But the major issue is cost. Even FTC teams are having trouble getting money together. Especially the larger teams. Fundraising is enough, but I doubt one can raise 10,000. It's hard. And we can't all depend on sponsors. Of course companies have to pitch in to the community. But, teams who fail to get enough sponsors simply can't compete.

Another one would be *self committment*. I've seen it a thousand times when a team wants something, and they are simply not willing to work for it. Although if a group of students are "committed" they can get a team started.

Our past few principal's have been really supportive of the program. All of our administrators come to the competition and check out what the team has acheived. It has to do with communit support. A team is less likely to compete if they feel that they have no support. Our team gets major support from the community, and that is a major drive for us.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Affiliation with a school is certainly not required. I have great respect for teams who are able to function well without one; my only experience has been with Jupiter High School's MARS team. Although MARS Team 1523 recently considered leaving its school-based roots (to become a 4H group or to incorporate as a 501c3, etc.), many factors made the team work hard to remain affiliated with a high school.

Reasons included:

• Difficulty finding a business sponsor willing to provide work space & particularly tool/machine access due to insurance/liability issues.
• Some sponsors reporting that their financial support was contingent on affiliation with a school group.
• The perceived effort & knowledge deemed necessary to become a 501c3 (we use the school's tax ID #).
• The team's rapid growth due to inclusion in the school's yearly new student orientation, yearbook exposure, classroom announcements, School Advisory Council agenda, etc.

Sure there are many barriers working within the bureaucracy of a school, but there are also some great resources when the partnership works. My opinion is that parental involvement & support are hugely valuable when promoting FIRST with School Boards, principals, & teachers.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Another barrier that I haven't noticed mentioned is for the teams coming from either a) different countries or b) whom are not part of the 48 continental states, transportation costs can bring the amount of money required for investment up much higher then it otherwise would be.

This has changed in the last couple of years in Hawai'i, not so much for Alaska as of yet.

However, distance from a regional competition has to be stated as a potential barrier to growth and development of the FIRST Robotics program for groups from certain areas. When there is no regional within a day to two days driving distance, the amount of money to make it to the regional certainly expands.

On not affiliating with a school, I've seen a couple of teams on the west coast effectively form teams unassociated with a school through groups like Girl Scouts. This is a solution that, as has been pointed out earlier, enables the group involved to get past school rivalries, and it can assist in the development of a team within an area that could not potentially support having a FIRST Robotics team at every high school. A side benefit to associating yourself with a group like this can be that there are potentially discounted places you could stay near the regional, or group rates that they can take for plane tickets if the regional is far away.

Another barrier that I would point out can be the perspective of FIRST for companies within the community, and occasionally within the FIRST community itself. Yes, FIRST exposes high school students to engineering, math and science fields, with the added benefit of encouraging those same students to go into engineering, math and science in college. However, there are additional benefits that come out of this competition. These benefits are things like teambuilding, time management and organization skills, critical thinking, creative thinking, goal setting, and enthusiasm for a final product. These are skills that can be useful in many different fields, not JUST engineering.

I hope that this provides some food for thought.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

This is just wrong. Having lived with Amish neighbors for half of my life, there is nothing in their religion that prohibits working with robotics.

#1 Batteries are allowed. Some power source is required for their buggy lights. ( and secret cell phones, tvs, freezers,etc)

#2 Pnuematic tires are not allowed. Not a problem here either.

#3 Electricity cannot be provided by the grid. There is no prohibition against providing it with a generator powered by kerosene or solar/wind power.

The only reason you will not see many Amish teams is because most of the Amish drop out after age 16 and are privately schooled. They are fully capable to participate and most have a mechanical knack to pull off winning teams.

To all CD posters and readers, please refrain from your comments on the basis of religious beliefs, color, creed, etc. You are only highlighting your own arrogance and prejudices.

Amish men and women are not required to accept thier faith until age 18 if memory serves me correct. Don't write off a viable group before it's time. They are no different than anybody else.Thier blood still runs red. Only thier beliefs may seem off from the main stream.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

I agree.

Your post frames the problems of many communities perfectly.

It frames the issues of changing the culture of a community that is 'downtrodden' and does not wish to change. Change is scary for a lot of people because it takes them out of their comfort zone. Many will refuse to change even when they know that what they are currently doing isn't working.

Free market economics is basically economic Darwinism where it's not "survival of the fittest" but instead "those that can most adapt to change".

Most success stories are not about giant leaps but instead many, many baby steps ... each baby step (victory) being 1 step towards the goal. And it's difficult to get people to start those baby steps because it's hard work and long hours for what seems like little gain (each baby step).

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

As I understand it, the original FIRST model was for corporations to initiate teams in cooperation with schools. That's how our team was founded. Things went swimmingly until the corporation in question moved out of our state and ceased funding and providing engineer mentors and our meeting place.

Our school wants the robotics program and has provided a very good meeting room and shop and a teacher mentor for us but they are unable to provide money. Seeking a new corporate sponsor is difficult because as soon as we say we are not a 501(c)(3) charity the business people loose interest.

FIRST wants to add new teams (an admirable goal), but they should also think about giving corporations the option to take over teams that have been abandoned by past corporate sponsors. We have a great set-up, a willing school administration, a teacher, etc. but if we don't get major funding and engineering mentors, our outlook is at best bleak.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

But FIRST is 501(c)(3). You can set it up for the business to deposit directly to FIRST in your account.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Most Schools are by nature 501 C 3s. They are tax-exempt. Check with your schools bookeeper, they may have the information you need to submit to corporations. Your other option is to become an after school 4-H or Girl Scout club, both of those have 501 C 3 status as well.

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

Quick question here before I start a new thread on the topic:

Who would be willing to pay a vollenteered admission fee for Regional Competitions if you KNEW it was going to the creation of a brand new rookee team next year?

Think about it. 40+ teams X 25+ members X $5 = $5,000+.
Thats a brand new kit folks for a new regional team that can't start due to costs.

I know how huge the dedication is to the people here, especially to their team. But how much do you think people would be interested in steping up, to see the good of the collective whole? $5 is less than your food or movie ticket, yet together its enough power to really kick off some good.

Partially I ask because I am prepared (due largely to personal reason) to spend a few thousand dollars per year towards new teams if knew it would be enough to get them going. That and I think the most successful program to date was the NASA grant with the hundreds of new teams involved there. Yes, I'm crazy... but am I the only one?

Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST
 

The largest barrier that I see is teacher buy in.
Most programs start with teachers in the respective schools.
Most wont want to do it, even in our own school.
Without knowing the full potential "experience" that FIRST can bring, its a hard sell when you find out the cost, time, experience and support that you need.
We can present all day long about why FIRST is important in changing the culture of the type of students that we have today. But, as long as other programs are available, there are other options.
I think people that do FIRST have a special interest in doing it that certainly outweighs the barriers.