Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

Well there is a usual pause from autonomous to controlled mode, the referees can make sure then.

Edit: There is no extra points for scoring during autonomous.

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

what you do is take the score after autonomous, and then add it to the score after teleoperated

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

As I read the rules, a puck can score twice, but not double. Once at the end of auto, and once again at the end of tele. If it's not there at the end of tele, it doesn't score a second time.

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

The difference I see there is that the preferred strategy in FIRST Frenzy with a giant hopper would be to then force them out the bottom of the robot, relativly few at a time, into the human load chute (or whatever it was called.) With this, simply flipping your hopper onto the goal seems ideal.


I agree that it would be a stretch for every single puck to be captured on a regular basis, but I still think that this will hamper the game in more ways than one. First, it contributes to the issue I pointed out earlier, if good teams are capturing and scoring with an entire rack at once, pucks are already running out fast. The ability to descore from the circle and triangle may be more important than anyone thinks. Also, I just don't really like the concept of the strategy. Just feels like its more a way to win a competition than get inspired about science and technology. But that's just me.

Once again, I don't think that this will happen on a regular basis. However, the central scoring structure, by nature, creates traffic jams, and a skilled driver should be able to hold off at least one, and possibly two offensive robots, particularly if they are approaching from the same side.

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

Hmmm - A story comes to mind.

Once upon a time, in the Hangin'-A-Round World Championships, I saw a team use a robot with a well-built arm to cleanly and deftly pluck a softball out of the hopper of an opponent's bot.

There was no entanglement or other inappropriate occurrence during the well-executed maneuver.

I whooped out loud, and spent the next 5 minutes with a big grin on my face. If I had been a judge....

Blake

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

Does any one have more information on the street hockey puck, such as manufacturer, cost, there are several different styles when searching on line.

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

Not positive but I think they resemble these

Good luck to all this season. Me and my teams are looking forward to our Face Off.:cool:

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

Game Manual Section 2.3 Definitions

"Puck - A scoring element for the 2008 FIRST Tech Challenge game, FIRST Face Off!. The puck is a Mylec or Franklin floor or street hockey puck that is made of molded plastic and measures 1 - inch thick and 3 - inches in diameter. It weighs approximately 2 ounces. Each puck will be painted red or blue. Depending on the tournament, there may be other markings on the puck faces for sponsors logos or other decorations."

Read the manual carefully. Also check the bill of materials for the field and you might find the model number recommended for tournament organizers. These should be the solid molded pucks without any sort of roller bearings.

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

Well, I can see that there are mixed feelings about this years FTC game. Some people say that it is too similar to last years game but really it isn't. This year there is a longer autonomous period and the scoring revolves around the center. There are also the ramps that are spring loaded that gain you extra points. Ring and pucks are similar in shape, yes, however your method to obtain the pucks can and propbably will be much different. I remember teams picking up the rings from the center like a skewer. You won't be able to do that this year. Also the pucks and rings are a different weight. Now for the strategy. Yes you can get the other teams pucks. But if you do that in auto mode than you will be giving the other team points which is a down fall to that idea. Also in order to get all the pucks from the other team your robot would need to do it with great speed and the team that your trying to get the pucks from will have to be not moving or doing absolutely nothing. It is possible but i highly doubt that strategy alone will win you matches. Also the method of just knocking the pucks into a hopper and scoring them all at once like a dumping method may be harder than you think. The triangle goal is high up but also a pretty good distance from the outside of the circle which is one thing to keep in mind. Yes you can dump the pucks in the circle but it wont be nearly as effective as dumping many in the triangle. With the auto mode getting the pucks down from the far rack will be much more challenging than just driving over there. Most likely there will be a robot in the way sometime in autonomous. I personally like this years challenge and the new kit. You can think what you like but i would put your feelings aside when designing the robot and at your meetings. Good luck!

WHERE TO GET PUCKS????
 

It is very difficult to test out the robot without the game elements. Does ANYONE know where to get the hockey pucks for the game? It is silly that FIRST does not post this information. My guess is that they are afraid that the teams will buy them all up first.

David

Re: WHERE TO GET PUCKS????
 

I for one am very excited about the upcoming season. I think there are a decent number of options for high powered offensive robots, but it is much easier to play defense this year, mostly due to the central scoring area.

Re: WHERE TO GET PUCKS????
 

Well, Monty, I'm sure you know how annoying true defensive bots can get. :D.

And, this year, i don't think that defensive bots will have the upper hand. The motors for drive this year are the same and most teams will utilize a 4 wheel drive. The defensive bot will generally be smaller and thus, this year, will not be able to push around the bigger robots.

Generally in the past you had teams who were scoring but could only use 4 motors for drive, while you had other teams using 10 motors for their drive. That's bound to change.

In the recent email blast is said "www.thestreethockeyshop.com (orange pucks, come in packs of 6)". That may be helpful.

As for the game, this is probably the most innovative game i've seen so far. There's not simply lifting and scoring things. There's more to it. This game really expands technology. I think it's great. :D.

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

I remain baffled.

1. The GDC has told us where to buy the pucks ("orange") but not the part number at the referenced Website. Would it have been that hard to look up the part number?

2. The cost of the field is unbelievable. Last year was really affordable -- I don't think we spent $100 on the whole thing. This year, sourcing parts locally, here is PART of the cost:

Paint to specs - $100
Lexan to build goals - $130
Spring-loaded hinges - $60
Plywood - $30
MDF - $30
Rollers, corrugated paneling, fasteners - $???

So that's $350 for a practice field, and doesn't include all the parts to build it. With sales tax and the remaining parts we are looking at $400 for the field alone. We built highly competitive Vex ROBOTS last year for about $500 each. This is insane.

I ordered parts yesterday from IFI for our VRC teams and they shipped this morning. I am still waiting for the FTC parts I ordered THREE WEEKS ago.

One of my FTC teams wanted an additional 120-tooth gear. More than $30 for a single gear?!? A short list of additional parts for ONE of my three FTC teams came to $250. Without the discount for returning teams, and including registration fees for a single tournament, we will be spending $225-250 per student for this program. That's about $150-175 with the discount. I can field a VRC team for about $75-100 per student. I'm not sure FTC makes sense any more.

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

Rick is having all the same questions that I have been having....

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THIS IS TRUE... does it make sense? I may be bringing my teams back to VEX and sell my FTC kit on EBAY. Some other team with money may be able to make a go at it. Have you tried buying METAL? The restriction on other metal makes it impossible.... buy from US or be disqualified.... I am just hanging my head, but I am going to make the best of it for the 10 students that have signed up. I have given up on putting together a full practice field... It is way too expensive, I am running this out of my Garage with my own funds. With VEX, it was possible, the "new and Improved" FTC... it is really insane....:( :( :( :( :(

Re: [FTC]: Thoughts on new FTC game?
 

I just wanted to add that parts delivery from Lego have gotten much better, and the team discount helps. All three of my FTC teams continue to struggle with the design limitations of the new platform. All of my VRC teams are done with their designs and are into "endless fussing" mode.