Chief Delphi - pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

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- - pic: drivetrain idea (comments please) (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69373)

sdcantrell56

29-09-2008 14:31

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

I would also agree that directly driving the center wheel if at all possible is the best solution. As has been said even in some extreme case that you throw every chain, you will still be mobile and able to play the game. Also with this extra safety, you can run#25 chain or even timing belt without worrying that if one breaks you will be immobile. As far as using the kitbox in direct drive it can be as simple as having a new output shaft fabricated and making a hub for the center wheel or you could fab up completely new plates and only retain the gears form the kit transmission. Either way it is relatively easy to do and I would be willing to show you some designs I have done using kit stuff. Also I'm sure you could find a machine shop to fab up a new output shaft to keep cost down.

=Martin=Taylor=

29-09-2008 14:52

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56 (Post 767759)

IMO if you're expecting to break #25 chain you are doing something wrong :ahh:

Aside from the fact that even with 3 chains at least one wheel will always be powered if one chain breaks (I can attest to this having happened ;)).

Most of the off-the-shelf gearboxes (with the exception of the AM SS) require a second reduction after the gearbox, especially with 6" wheels. A second reduction will also allow you to "tune" your speed.

Just my 100 sense.

AndyB

29-09-2008 15:18

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

I would recommend running your chain like so:

Code:

[] = wheel

s = sprocket

c = chain



[]s

  c

  ss  (GEARBOX HERE)

   c

[]ss

  c

  c

  c

[]s

Like so:

http://andyburchardt.com/robotics_re...0Drive%201.jpg

sdcantrell56

29-09-2008 17:08

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

I never expect to break a #25 chain in the drivetrain and in fact we ran the entire season without ever having to replace the drive chains. However, for some people who seem to still be shy about using #25 chain and reaping the great weight savings, using it in a drivetrain where the center wheels are directly driven gives an even greater incentive to use the lighter chain.

DonRotolo

29-09-2008 18:26

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

#25 chain is more sensitive to proper tensioning. #35 allows teams to be really sloppy and still quite effective.

As to the original question: I like the idea, very similar to our 2007 robot. We used a kitbot frame with a second level of frame at the height of the top of the wheels, primarily to get a flat platform.

Your implementation seems somewhat heavier than necessary. The inner rail doesn't add much strength, it can be 1/16" wall, while the outer rail will take a beating, count on bumpers to stiffen it and lend impact resistance.

You also need to consider cross-rails from outer to inner rail, and again from one inner rail to the other - that way, an impact's force is transmitted to all four elements, not just the one impacted.

If you can mount the gearboxes lower - gotta think about the sprocket wrap - you can end up with a flat (or nearly so) platform over which your manipulator can be built.

Don

bmarick

29-09-2008 21:31

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

why did you put the gear box in between the back set of wheels?
Our team did a direct drive of the center wheel and then chain drive to connect the two outside wheels for power this worked great and we did not have to drop the center wheel.:)

R.C.	29-09-2008 23:22

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmarick (Post 767857)

As mentioned earlier, there are many different types of drivetrains and each one is unique. 4 wheel omni's, offset 4 wheel omni's, crab, rocker 6 wheel drive, direct drive 6 wheel drive, 2 wheel drive with casters, and the list goes on. It all depends on your team. We do the exact same thing this team does but we have a two stage frame:

We are able to make braces for the gearbox and we mount them lower so it IS NOT a 60 degree wrap, it is less than a 30 degree wrap. A direct drive does have its advantages and disadvantages.

M. Mellott

30-09-2008 10:14

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

I would add a cross-brace (1x1 square tubing, 1/16" wall) to keep the frame strong and square...maybe two. They would also serve as additional mounting points for electronic boards and other devices.

As already suggested, using 1/16" wall tubing for the inner frame members is a good idea, but it may not be readily available in the 1x2 size you've chosen (not saying that it's not out there). In the case where you cannot find the 1/16" wall stuff, 1/8" wall U-channel would be a good option to save weight.

JOhnch181

30-09-2008 19:14

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

for cross bracing are team used a heet of 1/2" plywood to create reidgity from side to side. It has the second benefit of giving you a flat surface.

AdamHeard

30-09-2008 19:15

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

You'll really want to attach the frame members at more than just the ends. I would attach the two outer rails to each other between each wheel at a minimum, and since you're welding, it'll be real simple to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOhnch181 (Post 767992)

for cross bracing are team used a heet of 1/2" plywood to create reidgity from side to side. It has the second benefit of giving you a flat surface.

You can use just about any material, but if fastened in enough places, it creates a sheer-web that greatly increases the rigidity of the frame. Depending on the material, you may also need a centered crossbrace to keep it from sagging.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M. Mellott (Post 767922)

I have found 1/16" wall 2x1 to be very available.

bmarick

30-09-2008 20:34

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

definitly the cross brace or extra bracing is going to be needed. Otherwise it will bow over time. Can some one explain the degrees of rap to me. I'm still a little new to the drive train systems.

AndyB

30-09-2008 21:09

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

You want 120 degrees MINIMUM of chain wrap on each driven/driving sprocket.

jason701802

01-10-2008 00:22

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

there will be other braces going across but their placement will depend on our design for other stuff. the reason i put gearboxes on top of the frame member is because is easier then direct drive

sdcantrell56

01-10-2008 00:39

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

why not do direct drive with the super shifter? That is set up out of the box for that and gives you 2 speeds. If you wanted to you could also machine symmetrical plates for the super shifters so that each side of your frame could be identical.

bmarick

01-10-2008 02:27

Re: pic: drivetrain idea (comments please)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason701802 (Post 768033)

there will be other braces going across but their placement will depend on our design for other stuff. the reason i put gearboxes on top of the frame member is because is easier then direct drive

I question that it is easier because then you have to worry about the chain loosing contact with either the middle or the back wheel. on the direct drive you only need to make sure the output shaft is the right length and this makes it really easy to make duplicate sides and parts cause they will all be the same size and postion. All you have to do is switch the positive and negative into your h-bridge or what ever you are using to control the motors.

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