Originally Posted by BrentJ (Post 767966)

I am new to FIRST so I may be misinterpreting the rules. :confused: But if your mentor gets the Midwest teams a discount on parts then those may become illegal if used on next year's robots.

I am sure someone more experienced will correct me if I am wrong. Also please don't take this personally as I am trying to learn how to interpret FIRST rules. I am basing my opinion on the 2008 Financial rules, I don't think 2009 rules will be much changed.

Just taking your statement at face value. Say the midwest teams are given a midwest only discount on Wago parts. If these parts are only used for pre-season training and not put on the 2009 robot not a problem.
But use them on the 2009 robot and they become illegal as other teams outside the Midwest can't buy these COTS at the same price. From reading of the rules if a COTS part can not be brought by all teams for the same price then it can't be used? :confused:

Am I reading the rules correctly?

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock (Post 767970)

Almost there. It is my understanding of the accounting rules, that any team can get anything allowed on your robot (material, component, etc..) for any price they can manage to get their hands on it for. (Free works best btw..lol)
But, for Bill Of Material purposes, all teams must account for COTS prices.(Re: Non-discounted prices).

For example, say I got a local metal distributor to give me 50% off for every metal piece my robot requires. (material).
I can jump for joy because I just saved my team 50% of the price & could potentially buy twice as much now with the money I had, but for legal competition documentation intents & purposes, I can not use more than the allowed cost of the robot in metal, or combined for everything used on the robot, & have to accurately account for the COTS price (Price of all that metal without a discount) in my BOM.

Bottom line is, that just because I can buy a bunch of metal for 50% off & you buy it at full price, I still have to account in my BOM the exact same price you do if we built the same exact robot with the same amount of metal. I can't build a robot twice the cost amount of you just because I got everything for 50% off.

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik (Post 768095)

This brochure is probably a little more enlightening on the WAGO Cage Clamp system. Particularly page 2, which shows how the installation process works.

Originally Posted by Mike AA (Post 768083)

At our new Menards in Holland I have personally replaced about 40 of their wirenut versions which use the exact same concept, 6 of which had such a catastrophic failure that the fire department was called.

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 768114)

The connectors involved (I think they were called something like "WAGO Wall Wire") were explicitly not intended for use with aluminum.

Originally Posted by Mike AA (Post 768083)

The little metal tab which contacts the wire (typically about 1/4 the wire size) has a tendancy to heat up and cool down losing its spring ability and thus losing contact.

Originally Posted by Greg Marra (Post 767956)

I feel like in many ways, the amount and format of information regarding the new controls system would be best captured in a Wiki, not a bunch of individual forum threads.

FIRSTWiki didn't seem to catch on the first time around, but maybe we can revive it with information about the new controls system? A page about each of the components, edited by people who know about them, would quickly result in a fairly comprehensive "how to" manual.

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik (Post 768095)

Mike,

What kind of currents are we talking about here? As I understand the system, all/most of the current should be flowing through the copper current bar. The spring steel clip shouldn't see much current, given the relative sizes and resistivities of the clip and current bar. So I don't really see a mechanism for the extreme kind of heating needed to take the set out of the spring steel, save a rather poor installation.

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 768114)

That was the installation where aluminum wiring was quietly substituted for the copper that got stolen the night before the work was done, right? I remember reading something about that this summer in an electricians' newsletter. The connectors involved (I think they were called something like "WAGO Wall Wire") were explicitly not intended for use with aluminum.

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo (Post 768143)

The spring tab that contacts the wire isn't where most of the current flow happens - instead it is the large flat (and thick!) surface that it is pressing the wire against. I will suggest that (for these connectors) the temperature rise in the wire will exceed that of the connector.

Originally Posted by jgarski (Post 768879)

Ah yes, the Wall Nut.

The Wall Nut product we make is designed solely for use in solid wire, and copper only.

It does not utilize the same technology as the terminal blocks. The Wall Nut uses a leaf spring design, not the Cage Clamp. If you want to use a Cage Clamp, we make a product called the LeverNut, which is very cool. Same idea as the Wall Nut or any wirenut, but uses the Cage Clamp inside of it. It can handle 12-28 awg (I think, I don't have the spec in front of me) and solid or stranded. It also has a test port for probing with your multimeter.

The cage clamp connection is used in applications on just about every US aircraft carries, as well as all over the oil fields. These high demand environments show the robustness of our product.

It's unfortunate that someone had a problem. But that is a rare event.