Re: New Game Progress
 

So you mean you spent a lot of time doing the thing that FIRST asks teams not to do? Hmmmm. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Jeff is right....

-dave


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Re: New Game Progress
 

would that be considered rack and row...

Re: New Game Progress
 

Oh No.
Dave is smiling.
**Shudders**

Re: New Game Progress
 

I sense a disturbance in the force. A presence I felt since........

Re: New Game Progress
 

Let's try not to scare any new CDers

He shudders, because he's thinking about all the evil hints and red herrings, the ones that the WONDERFUL Dave keeps from us, making us feel safe. SAFE. DAVE IS SAFE....

Re: New Game Progress
 

there is no rule that says we cant draw chassis in CAD Programs, we just cant start milling any of the drawings, or building anything yet.:rolleyes:

Re: New Game Progress
 

Dave, that's what we, in the video game world, call getting "pwned".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwned

Re: New Game Progress
 

Yes... and no. From the 2008 rules (the most current available in this case), R27 reads:
and would now be in effect. You are correct, design is not prohibited, especially at vague levels. You could even build the designs, provided that anything you build does not make it onto the final robot.

HOWEVER: Bill's Blog advises against this. Moreover (and more to the point), there is an explanatory note right before <R27> that reads in part: The removed portion is examples of acceptable activities.

So, you are borderline right now. You may or may not have those drawings, but if you don't, you might want to consider not proceeding further. Of course, a proof-of-concept of something like a universal chassis might be worth building as a proof-of-concept, whether or not it was used in competition. While these quotes are not rules, they are from official sources, and should be treated as such.

This is one of those areas that could change a bit, especially with Dave having noticed.

Re: New Game Progress
 

FIRST has been pretty clear in stating that you should not be preparing any final, detailed, dimensioned designs (or fabricating final parts, etc) before the start of the build season. Both the referenced portion of Section 8.3.4 of the previous rules, and the entry in Bill's Blog give information regarding this intent. But when you state, as you did in your original post, that "I have put way to much time into designing a universal chassis, and come Jan 3 I dont want to have to start over, or make any changes" then you make it unambiguous that is exactly what you are doing. FIRST's intent and those actions are obviously in conflict. Based on the advice from Bill's Blog, you might want to think carefully about just how much time you want to invest in developing a detailed final design that you may not be able to use.

and that's what we, in the engineering world, call a completely unnecessary statement.

-dave



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Re: New Game Progress
 

I believe Dave has just successfully executed the often elusive pwn-back (I would link to Urban Dictionary here, but that site is definitely on, if not over, the line of things I am comfortable linking to on CD).

Re: New Game Progress
 

The last little bit of exchanges in this thread are a great example of what I sometimes think of as the Dave phenomenon and although cool, I sometimes wonder if his points are getting across to our young and future engineering minds. Dave is well-known in CD for his humor, his hints, and his wit. For many who take the time to read his posts very carefully, he is also known for his intelligent wisdom, his guidance, and his wealth of knowledge. The concern I have in this last exchange is that some folks will get caught up in the pwn/pwn-back and potentially miss the information that he shared in his post regarding design aspects of the robot as well as providing an opportunity to think beyond the gaming world and into the engineering world. Different perspectives, different expectations - if one thinks about it. Dave is very cool and also very fun, but he is also a respected source of knowledge and experience. It an amazing opportunity for the young students involved in FRC to experience.

Sorry, I've been wanting to say this for several years and finally did. I'll stop now. :)

Re: New Game Progress
 

Thank you Jane, you are right on as always. My post was in no way meant to take anything away from the informative and insightful post Dave made and if even one person gets "caught up in it" and misses what Dave or you wrote then I am sorry.

If you are reading this and you didn't read both Dave and Jane's post, please go back now and do so.

Re: New Game Progress
 

Kevin, thank you for your kind words.
Actually, you created an amazing example for me to point to with the elusive pwn-back - in asking young students to please take the time to think past the thought they have in their head, when reading Dave's posts, that they are a hint or they are funny. Dave's posts can be all or some of that, for sure, but they are often much much more as well. That's all I was asking for folks to think about. We are limited by our own preconceived notions sometimes, missing great opportunities to see great beauty or to learn from the best.

Thank you again. :)
Jane

Re: New Game Progress
 

[edit] Not to interrupt.....
Eventually the GDC's gonna have a game piece called Red Herring just to mess with all of us on behalf of Dave lol >.<

Re: New Game Progress
 

I agree with what you are saying. what i meant was that it would be nice if the game really fit with our chassis, but by no means were we trying to gain an unfair advantage.