New Game Progress
 

what do you think the new game is going to be?

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a water game :rolleyes:

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Cory read my mind.:rolleyes:

Or better: jello game.:rolleyes:

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it wouldn't totally shock me if this year was the dreaded water game. i personally think that we're still a long ways off from that (i know that's kind of contradictory :) if i had to say, following a pattern, this year probably won't be a ball game, that is every other year. other than that, i don't really know.

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Red Herrings :cool:

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I have said it once, and i'll say it again and again until one year it will finally be true:

This year's game piece will be pool noodles.

-Leav

(when this happens I want scores of people linking to this post and asking me to predict next year's game piece as well. ;) :P )

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I will print this post out and eat it if we see a water game this year. I would make this bet EVERY year, but particularly this year with the new controller. Not a snowball's chance in hell.

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I don't think FIRST would do water game because of the ability to some teams to be able to test robots with water.

Will we ever know what the game is until kickoff. Me no like this torture we get every year.

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Now I just want to see Cory literally eat this thread.

My bet is that the new game will be an interesting design challenge, that challenges us to use the full abilities of the new controller. How about that for a general answer.

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The 2009 game piece will be - Zack Morris cell phones.

I've never seen "Degrassi" but Karthik's post about 1114 being on that TV show made me think of "Saved by the Bell".....

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maybe they changes the control system so they could do a water game?CRIO waterproof?:D

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No, but it is *somewhat* fireproof:

See the "cRIO - Like a Rock?" video linked on this page:

http://sites.google.com/a/neofra.com...deos-and-media

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Sorry................ but IFI wouldn't upgrade stuff like FIRST wanted (so i have been told)

Water games are far away, it's too risky imo. But i would like to see plastic cubes that we have to lift onto some sort of platform that has a trap door that is connected to a lever that can be pulled/rammed into by another bot.

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As much as we'd all like to see one, FIRST will never have a water game. There are always going to be rookie teams that have no experience making robots, let alone making them waterproof.

I really want to see projectiles again though, like they did in '06. If not that, then pool noodles.

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what about or soccer or water polo that'd be fun

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better yet, projectile pool noodles.i see maybe some kind of irregular object. maybe utilizing noneuclidean geometry.

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how about a game on ice?

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Klein Bottles!

p.s.
This is Perhaps the first and last time you will ever see the term "Klein Bottle" followed by an exclamation point.

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what about some small cylendrical game piece?

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Dear god no more balls/tubes. I think we have killed round objects for a couple years. I want bins or something square.

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ice would be awsome :D

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I think that water would be too complicated. Given that this would stretch teams' limits, water would be hard to build, and also hard to create at regionals and etc.

Personally, I believe the game will resemble something along the lines of the FTC game. Look forward to terrain and having to maneuver your robot around the field. I also believe that FIRST will implement the use of more ramps this year, and possible even a 2nd level?!?!?!?!

As scary and exciting a water game might sound, I think it is a tad bit unrealistic.

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tennis balls, a ten foot high goal, and monkeys trained to play defense on us.

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i say 700 bonus points for climbing a 83 degree treadmill

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CONES!!!!!

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I was about to say:

and was thinking to myself:

-Leav

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My guess is the game will have some connection to us returning to the moon to build a lunar base. Maybe some sort of moving and assembly of building materials.:D

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i think an obsticacle course in a tag team motion would be pretty sweet for this year :yikes:

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Marbles?

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I wanna play "Aim High" again!

...or at least a game that is similarly structured. A bunch of gamepieces, open field, lots of robot interaction... fun!

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Batons.

Note to self: Next time a thread like this happens, find EVERY "hint" that Dave or others have "released" for every game and put them into the thread.

And just last night, I looked at a spotlight from Dave where he talked about an impromptu water competition--with FIRST robots--outside--with no electrical issues. Yes, a water game is possible, or was with the IFI system and its predecessor. Let's hope the cRIO takes more "abuse", including water-related.

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I for one would like to balance something. Maybe a cards. but large ones. we should make card houses. that would be satisfying

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And you thought trackballs were big...

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I was kinda hoping for the vlc media cone =)

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It would be cool to see another "Co-Opertition" game. I bet it would throw my team a little out of whack (in a good way).

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I wasn't a huge fan of coopertition. I'm gonna be so happy to be able to travel in whatever direction I want again this year (Hopefully). I'm so happy G22's reign is over.

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You never know, Dave might be thinking of something totally crazy.

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How about a game that involves every single previous game pieces and objectives, combine them all into one game.

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Not a bad idea.

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Oh, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Floppies+puck+rotating tree+rack+overpass+balls of various sizes+corn on the floor+platforms+ramps+hanging bars+shooting the game pieces+boxes+tetras+mobile goals+zones+inner tubes= "How on earth do we fit it all in?"

Never mind "How on earth are we supposed to play this?" and the <G22> penalties, loading zone violations, and other miscellaneous penalties (and exceptions).

Never mind that (in the early years) tipping was legal, and the "no wedges" rule was only enacted in 2005... Oh, and which parts limitation do we use?

On the other hand, teams already have a plethora of designs to choose from. Oh wait...:D

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Soccer was done in '06 :p... then again basketball was done in '06...

Hmm maybe a baseball themed game or hockey or football :eek:

Come to think of it pool noodles in a baseball themed game :D


Great I think we just started waking up the lav monster... *invests in stock of Tylenol cause me thinks I'm going to need it this year*

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Well, in most northern states the water game would turn into an ice game. :P Course that would be interesting to me.

Optimally next years game would allow multiple ways of scoring that are scored appropriately to their difficulty. Autonomous mode will probably make a come back as opposed to hybrid. Hybrid was an interesting twist but with the increased processing power it seems foolish not to use it. Dont be surprised to see a twist on the game piece. I am tempted to agree with Leav that pool noodles would be an awesome game piece. Inter-robot communications would be pretty fun to do as well as very relevant to real life.

Ok now for some randomness:
at every regional we will have a webserver our robots will have to open a tcp/ip connection to. Will have to traverse the file structure and find a file. Open the file and it will contain the location to drive to (randomly generated on a per robot basis) at that location we have to place an object and repeat the process. And thats just auton. :D

Ok that was a fun joke.

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And so it begins....



-dave



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Is that an Atlantic or Pacific red herring?

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Oh Noes!~!!!

What have I done :p

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I would assume Atlantic because it's closer to Dave...

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And everyone would watch in intense... boredom.

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It has been reported that there were several late summer sightings of Mr. Lavery working on two rather large shark fin replicas in his garage late into the Virginia evening. Coincidence? I think not.

Hey Cory, ever see that episode of Bugs Bunny?
"How you makeum snowball in summer?"

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You do understand that members of the GDC do patrol the CD fora, check out game design ideas, and are rather careful not to use an exact idea already posted here.
That being said....
FLL and FTC have done a science/technology theme for a while now. I haven't seen this from FRC yet - at least not the whole game (I know the hybrid mode was supposed to allude to the Mars expedition). I think FRC will be thematic and topical. Perhaps highlighting environmental concerns (game pieces could be aluminum cans, plastic bottles, magazines, etc), perhaps incorporating more obstacles a la the FTC game.
Personally, I'd like to see a politically themed game - we'd call our robot Hanging Chad.

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This'll be what, the 18th year of FIRST? I could see a second coming of FIRST Frenzy coming in a few years. (Combining the ideas of previous games). But probably not this year. They'd do it for the 20th.

Personally, I had a blast with Triple Play and Rack n' Roll. Overdrive really didn't hold as strategy as high as games like these. (Especially triple play). I love games that force alliance cooperation. Overdrive didn't have much of that after the first 20 seconds of the game. I loved in 2007 when teams had to coordinate the usage of ring robots and ramp robots.

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I took this picture, zoomed in on various parts and discovered some very interesting things. If you carefully look at the white patch behind the eye, you will see what looks like a torch. Now I have no idea what that means, maybe an Olympics style pentathalon or something like that. Then, If you look at the dorsal fin, about 1/3 the way back, there is a faint image of a meatball in a bowl of spaghetti. I'm guessing that FIRST will be providing lunch to all teams during the Thursday lunch time since the image is located on the first third of the fin, and since competitions are over 3 days, it makes sense that the meal will be provided on Thursday. The last thing I noticed is that I have far too much time on my hands typing this fantasy up, and I will just have to wait for kickoff to see what this year's game actually is.

Cheers

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Here Here. Those two were definitely my favorites. I would especially like Triple play now that the camera stuff has been figured out better. If the Vision Tetras had green lights on them, that could be truly spectacular.

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I think the truth is that this fish carries a torch for great songs:

On top of spaghetti,
All covered with cheese,
I lost my poor meatball,
When somebody sneezed.

It rolled off the table,
And on to the floor,
And then my poor meatball,
Rolled out of the door.

It rolled in the garden,
And under a bush,
And then my poor meatball,
Was nothing but mush.

The mush was as tasty
As tasty could be,
And then the next summer,
It grew into a tree.

The tree was all covered,
All covered with moss,
And on it grew meatballs,
And tomato sauce.

So if you eat spaghetti,
All covered with cheese,
Hold on to your meatball,
Whenever you sneeze.

Man, I love that song. Rock on red herring.

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Now if you gave the same location to opposing robots (3 total locations unless you are thinking 4v4), and they had to autonomously play king of the hill in that spot then we might have something exciting.

The name has been done before. In 2004, Team 1218, The CHAbots, named their robot the Hanging CHA. All it did was hang, but with big tri-wheels for climbing it was hard to stop (they literally rolled over bots). They were Einstein Finalist that year with Las Guerillas.

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I'm predicting that, for the first time since 2005, there won't be any penalties based solely on where your robot is or where it's going. The GDC finally realized that these rules have had a disproportionately negative impact on teams with less skilled drivers and malfunction-prone robots... no one benefits when a team feels like they'd have been a better help to their alliance by not showing up at all.

(I can dream, right?)

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Uh, I think this picture can mean 3 things.

1. Nothing. It could be trick. Just Dave messing with up while the hype is up. :D.

2. Getting your swimming trunks out, cause we're going underwater.

3. The gaming element could be a replica of a fish, or something slimy. Just thought of that right now. :D.

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The picture that Dave posted is linked from the Red Herring Society web site. A WHOIS search reveals that the domain is registered to an individual in Toroto, Canada and the registrar is Tucows. Toronto is home to the Maple Leafs NHL team. Maple leafs are red and maple trees produce maple syrup. Tucows is a rough approximation of the phrase "two cows". Cows produce milk. The "Two Cows" could be interpreted to mean 2% milk, which has a blue label. Clearly the game will have a breakfast theme. There will be large glasses and waffles scattered around the playing field. In the center will be a large table with four chairs. The red team will attempt to apply syrup to the waffles while the blue team pours generous servings of tasty 2% milk. At the same time, members of either team can hand the waffles or glasses of milk to their human players, removing those points from the total score when consumed. Robots will receive points based on the number of waffles/glasses of milk on the table at the end of the match, plus a bonus for robots seated at the table.

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The first thing that caught my eye was the diamond plat like pattern on the fish so maybe there is a piece of diamond plat in the middle of the field. Always remember to read into Dave's clues they are never what they seam to be.

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Isn't that sort of like asking "is that an African or European swallow?"

-dave



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Wafer-thin game objects? :ahh:

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"Now is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho, heh?" FZ

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I kinda hope me have a little more room to move in this year's game. last year was fine and dandy, but (as experience from last year's game) when we fell over we blocked the whole path. If they have it more like 06 with most of the field free and have the target in the center I think that'd be helpful. And my guess is that they're going to raise the weight limits to 125 or something because of that new control system. Maybe the game itself should be capture the flag or for those here who love the concept of a water game. Water Polo. :rolleyes:

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Having the end of round bonus points be from having to pick up and suspend another bot in the air (only a few inches) would be cool.

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I totally just set that as my new signature!:] lol.

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That would be The Logical Conclusion to a Night of Bingeing (thank you Mr. Creosote!)

-dave


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Boosky: Aw, you caught my typo. :D. Oh well. :D.

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Being in a rookie team this year, I'm all for it!

Capture the flag also sounds great, though I think a game where we had to assemble a structure (maybe leading on from the blocks of the VEX elevation?) would be a good challenge also.

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water polo on a 54ft carpeted field?


wait i've got it you have to throw other robots into the goal thats 12ft off the ground!:yikes:

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I think the Magic of FIRST comes from thinking up crazy ideas for next year's game...anyways i m against water games because of the tremendous effort GDC and regional personal will have to put in it, but i m also against balls and that stuff. i want something that is truly creative as this is my last year as student on my FIRST Team...

I got a lot of rookies on my team this year...wish me luck

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I'm really hoping they make bumpers optional and have enough game options, that robots look as unique as the robots from the era of '04 and earlier. Because the robots back then look alot more unique than most of the past robots (some exceptions lol).

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We tried something similar in 2003 with Stack Attack with very mixed results. Some liked the excitement, some believed it was flawed but could be fixed with simple rule changes, others consider it a complete failure and cringe at the phrase "Stack Attack". Most can agree there was more emphasis on the "Attack" than the "Stack". Several Theorists out there believe the rough play (like ramming) that year was very influential in creating the rough play rules of today.

FRC hasn't really tried anything similar since (IMHO). I am interested to see how the Vex Elevation game turns out since it very similar to the 2003 and 2005 FRC games (and of course other games before them). I still don't think FRC will try anything that might be compared to Stack Attack, but you never know (especially when Dave is involved :D ).

More so than usual I hope this year's game turns out to be exceptional. Balancing the difficulty of Autonomous/Hybrid will certainly be a feat this year with no prior cRio experience. A truly great, exciting game can help make everything more successful including new endeavors like the control system, Michigan competition format, and of course our new friends in New Zealand.

Oh and I can't forget what I always say in these threads:

FRISBEES!!!!! :ahh:
'nuff said

EDIT: I guess not nuff said. I knew I had seen this Red Herring stuff before...

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Lets call the 2009 game REWIND, and play a new and improved "Aim High."
Or HYBRID, and mix 2 or more past games in one. :)

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Foosball. Playing field runs across the short distance of field. auto would be to lock onto handles or to push other handles out to mess with other teams auto. Endgame--I have no idea.

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I realized that what i said there was not the best choice of words and I apologize to IFI. What I said was my own words and do not reflect the views or opinions of team 1902.

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One thing some of the more recent games have lacked (05, 07, 08, most of the vex games) is shared scoring objects. Shared scoring objects (the shared balls in 04, 06, shared goals in 02, and so on) had top offensive robots competing for them, something I really miss with the alliance orientated scoring objects.

Imagine how much different this year would have been if there were just 4 trackballs.

I really hope it returns.

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Yes the games haven't been as strategy oriented as past games. But what I have noticed is that the games are so that making a super bot that can do everything is getting harder and harder. So you have to pick one or two aspects of the game. I mean in 07 you didn't see a majority of bots that could pick up the tubes effectively and had great ramps. Now some bots could, but not a tone. You gotta pick which parts of the game you think will score the most points and what is due able by your team. Some bots had great ramp or lifting systems and had less effective grabbers or the other way around. Then with Overdrive, some teams made a killer lap-bot, or a great hurdler. While some teams had an effective hybrid mod.

I hope that FIRST keeps the games where you have to pick which aspects you think will score the most points and which ones you think arn't as critical. I hope that the 09 game is the most exciting and challenging game yet.

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two words fris-bee

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that would be awesome

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Ok, so I got to the fish and then just skipped to the end;

Capture the Flag.


THAT would be a fun game.

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pshhh its going to be the robo Olympics. we going to have to do the sprint, the swim, the jump, all of it. WOW i just thought of how cool that would be.

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Seriously, a water game wouldn't work- here in California there's a drought.:rolleyes:


I would personally love to see another game with lots of robot interaction and alliance strategy. Like Aim High, but maybe with an extra element or two to the game...


Another random thought occurred to me: since the robots will use Wi-Fi to communicate with the Driver's Station this year, what will happen when the people in the audience inevitably try to create about 20 different ad-hoc networks? I know there's 11 channels for 802.11, but they can overlap slightly in terms of interference, so there might be communication issues if things fall the wrong way...

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i think they have figured that out they wouldn't just do something that dosent work

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Hm...1 Game element eh..that sounds intriguing.

Because then the defensive robots can't exactly guard all of the playing elements. I think that would be more interesting than what we've had in the past.

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actually in the past defense hasent been that hard to do but it was always about where you were defending and who you were defending

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You are right, defense isn't that difficult.

However, effective defense against a powerful, efficient, offensive robot takes an understanding of what the offensive bot wants to do. And you need to know this during the build season, not learn it on the field.

A great defensive robot is designed from the ground up, just like a great offensive robot is.

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I think i remember them saying we are going to use 802.11 N which has far more channels. But just like every year, wireless networks will most likely not be allowed in the pits or stands.

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I just watched some of the old matches posted here and realized that 1997 is very similar to 2007 (there is a center rack with multiple levels and inner tubes are used) and 1998 looks similar to 2008 (overpasses and balls are used) so maybe we will see floppies and pucks this year?

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Frisbees maybe. I think FIRST said they wouldn't use floppies again due to the filling breaking up (foam peanuts). Then again, you never know. I don't think 2006 was similar to 1996 (and on up back the line).

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whats the difference between 802.11 and 802.11n?

anyways its going to be a good suprise plan on using the new control system to its full potential

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If the current trend holds true it will be Squares of some kind

2008 - Trackball (Ball)
2007 - Ringer (Circle)
2006 - poof (Ball)
2005 - Tetra (Triangle)
2004 - Kick Ball (Ball)
2003 - Stackables (Square)
2002 - Soccer Ball (Ball)

So that is what it will be......

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The old "FIRST Logo Trend" has long been debunked. Odd object, likely. Square of some kind, not so much. Look before 2002. The previous non-ball game element was a circle, and there wasn't one before that.

I'm still holding out for a traffic cone, and I'm sure some people still want footballs.

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playing football would be so much fun

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I think it's too early for football cause the bots would have launchers like the ones in 06. So i think it will be a couple more years till we will have a chance to see a football. I'm guessing squares or triangles this year. I dont see how they could do something new with a ball/circle this year, that hasn't been done in the past 3 years. But we wont know till Jan.

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yeah but footballs would have to be lunched differently i think having to lift other robots would be cool!

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I have seen football launchers (not the loading system) where it's just 2 wheels that shoot the ball out, like a baseball pitcher, but on it's side.

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we should do something with fire like having to put out or start a fire like one alliance has to put it out and the other alliance has to start it or something

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Lifting other robots has been done, in 2007. I'm still waiting for rugby balls. Has wobble, but not the problematic laces of a football.

Wetzel

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With the FIRST forums still being down, I can't verify this(any of the beta teams are welcome to add in the info though), but I do remember someone involved with the testing(someone from FIRST, I believe) saying that they could successfully run multiple machines on a single channel without any problems.

Something I wonder is if the wireless hardware the beta teams received was still in the original boxes, or in a "white box" that may mean FIRST had tweaked the settings on the system - possible settings I see as helping with the new system's security are some form of WEP/WPA, as well as turning on "n-only" mode(I don't know if such a thing exists, but I know that my 11g router lets me choose between "mixed-mode (b+g)" or "g-only".) There's still a lot of hardware that doesn't come with 11n support, since it still hasn't been officially ratified as a standard. Letting the hardware only talk to 11n devices could greatly limit the potential devices that could interfere.

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The wireless network equipment was in its original boxes. However, it was neccesary to use a computer to configure the devices to connect to each other.