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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship
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lol, I stand corrected....
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IDk, I like Atlanta, it's nice and easy down here. But I wouldn't mind having it somewhere out west.
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2 Words...
Peoria, Illinois |
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But seriously ... Indianapolis almost had it when the last contract was renewed with Atlanta. I say come back and look at Indy again - now that the new stadium and more new hotels are open. |
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I'm with Karthik, the SkyDome (shoot me if I ever call it the Rogers Centre) and Metro Toronto Convention Center combo COULD definitely support the Championships. The square footage is there. As for you southerners complaining about the weather? Historically speaking, by late April winter is well over, and we see temperatures in around the 10-15 C mark. (In American, thats 50 to 60 degrees)
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People in Atlanta seeking to build a new Falcons stadium on the grounds of the closed Doraville GM facility [happy thoughts] in suburban (i.e. not downtown) Atlanta:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/cat...PINIONS&isub=2 I wonder what would happen to the Georgia Dome if this were to occur - obviously, it would lose its most notable tenant - I do not know how "booked" the Dome is outside of Falcons home games. If they blew up the Georgia Dome (Why? It's not that old, is it? Rich getting richer....), I wonder how that would affect Atlanta's chances at retaining the Championship Event long term.... |
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In the article you provided it says "The Falcons are bound by a lease to play in the Georgia Dome in downtown Atlanta through 2020, but team owner Arthur Blank said in 2006 he wanted to start negotiating a new downtown Atlanta stadium." We'd be good for at least 10 more years before we'd even have to worry about it. |
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This mentions the possibility of the lease expiring in 2015: http://www.ajc.com/living/content/me...doraville.html Seems there are two competing interests - the suburban Doraville stadium supporters and the GWCC people wanting to build a new stadium downtown. Which option Falcons owner Arthur Blank officially backs remains to be seen. This may be a non-issue if the city of Atlanta can afford to retain the Georgia Dome even with the absence of the Falcons as a tenant, but it's something to keep an eye on, anyway. |
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This may be a little over the top....but wouldn't it be cool if we could build our own FIRST Robotics Grand Stadium? It could hold all the FIRST robotics championship competitions and conventions, it would be the home of the hall of fame and other history making halls. It could also be a special summer camp for FIRST students. I would have it's own hotels for all teams and other sorts of buildings and centers...and don't forget three bronze statues of Woody, Dean and Dave in the courtyard.
A guy can dream....I'll put that on the list of things I'll do before I die...build that building. |
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If i became incredibly rich one day i would make a convention center arena designed for that. How could the rest of the world ignore FIRST if that happened.
Maybe the New Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis, adjacent america's center i like that idea i don't know about hotels though, BUT it doesn't get any closer to the center of the country |
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that's funny, I've had the same ideas. I've pretty much all but drawn out blueprints for the ultimate FIRST stadium! (this sounds like the start of a new thread...)
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the rogers center or ontario science centers in toronto would be nice oh wait how about direct energy center it's huge
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I second the idea at Skydome/Rogers Center in Toronto, Ontario
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Id say we go back to Disney for the Championships
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The championships are scheduled in Atlanta for 2010, according to the GWCC website: http://www.gwcc.com/calendar/gwcc.html.
Building a new stadium is really, really, hugely expensive. Even with FIRST's steadily-increasing cash horde, there's no way they will be able to afford the multiple-hundreds of millions it would cost. Just as a point of comparison, the estimated cost of building the Seattle Sonics a new facility in Renton (a city to the southeast of Seattle) was $400 million. The new owner snuck the team out of town at least in part because that wasn't going to be good enough. It simply isn't going to happen, and even if the money is available I think it would NOT be furthering the goals of FIRST to spend the money this way. I'd rather fund 500,000 Vex or 25,000 VRC teams in 25,000 schools in North America than squander $400 million on a facility that is easily duplicated each year with a comparatively modest rental fee. |
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For whoever commented that someone should do an analysis of the "centralized" location for teams to attend (like Indy) - it was already done once a few years ago and showed that more teams could reasonably drive to Indy than Atlanta - thus typically saving costs..
So.... I did the analysis again... This is only accounting for FRC teams. Data is based on the 340 teams that attended Championships in 2008. Results are similar to what I found back in 2005. Of those 340 teams, 64 were omitted from much of this because they would have to fly anyways (includes "mandatory fliers" or if 20+hrs of driving). Note - 54 "Mandatory Fliers" included HI, WA, CA, OR, WA, PR, Brazil, Israel, Mexico. That leaves 10 teams that are 20+hrs driving. Of the remaining 276 teams: 13 teams are under 3hrs of driving to Atlanta 4.7% 17 teams are under 3hrs of driving to Indy 6.2% 17 teams are under 5hrs of driving to Atlanta 6.2% 73 teams are under 5hrs of driving to Indy 26.4% 74 teams are under 10hrs of driving to Atlanta 26.8% 148 teams are under 10hrs of driving to Indy 53.6% 227 teams are under 15hrs of driving to Atlanta 82.2% 237 teams are under 15hrs of driving to Indy 85.8% Further - of the 340 teams total: (but not including 54 mandatory fliers) 221 are closer to Indy than Atlanta. 106 teams would shave 5+hrs off their driving if going to Indy instead 33 teams would shave 8+hrs off their driving if going to Indy instead This is just data. Note it does not take into account who actually flies or drives each year - simply what the realistic potential would be. Also - it's a lot of data, so give or take a few for human error, but it's correct as best I can see. |
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I personally love atlanta, the stadium, the park, et al, but to be honest, my parents have not* been able to attend because of other family things, nor can my grandparents because of the distance [12-15 hours of driving] from here [Toledo] to Atlanta. Indy on the other hand, what 5 hours easy? our ENTIRE team plus parents etc. could go simply because its close enough that if there's an emergency in between it wouldn't be a whole day before they got back.
my other 2 cents. *this year was the first but my grandpa has prostate cancer and can't drive more than 5 hours. |
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All of you are just too spoiled. :p
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Whatever. The 2010 Championship is on the GWCC calendar. |
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RFP's are out!
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as for building, yes i understand the cost for a FIRST HQ would be IMMENSE^10^10 and is the money is much better spent on getting the programs into other highschools, it was just a thought. i'm up for anyplace closer than atlanta if such a chance arises =) |
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Hershy center. direct energy center, ontario science center, the rogers center, the streets of toronto ???????????????????????? waterloo? somewhere in ontario
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I got the perfect idea (for me atleast). As a huge Viking fan I know that they Vikings are looking for a new 1 billion dollar stadium that building needs to start this summer. So, why doesn't FIRST pay the 700 million that the Vikings want the general public to pay and they share it? The Vikings stay in Minnesota and the Championship is closer to me! Perfect plan.
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that sounds amazing
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Speaking of transportation, our team(2272)might be the first team ever to flip a car on its side before we even left the parking spot. :yikes:
I love the championship in Atlanta. If it was in L.A, FIRST would hate it so much they would not even give the L.A. based teams a KOP the next year. Besides, the L.A. regional isn't even in L.A. this year. |
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Umm, last I checked, Atlanta was not in the middle of the country. It's too bad you need stadium seats for an event like this. The Las Vegas Convention Center could handle it easy. Over 3,200,000 square feet. |
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Win, Win, Win! |
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For the next contract the 4 finalist are Atlanta, Indy, St Louis and Phoenix. Sorry no Disney. |
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Phoenix is out.
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Thanks for the quick reply!
Good luck in the off-season! |
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What happened to those rumors about having it in Seattle?
Many will argue that it should stay from either the Midwest area or east of it. I say move it West and have the East Coast-side teams share the burden of the "higher" travel costs vs the West Coast-side teams over the years. :D :D Too bad Phoenix is out..and too bad they cant alternate West-side, East-side from year to year. |
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When I was down on the Galileo field in Atlatna there was a representative from Indy who had a book that laid out how the event would be set up (field layout, pits...) To me it looked like he was going to make a pitch to have the event held in Indy for 2011.
-Keaton |
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I don't know how feasible it is, or if it has ever been brought up before, but why not have at Joe Louis in Detroit? You've got Cobo hall next door and the smart bus has a stop there. Has any one ever tried? Just a thought for future years.
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It's not a football field, so it's probably too small...
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Of the finalists, Indy and St. Louis sound the best to me. A central championship location is the best compromise for everybody. And after several years in Atlanta, I personally am ready to go somewhere new. Both cities have major airports, plenty of lodging, and large indoor venues.
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Yes, time for a change of scenery and more central location. :D
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Got any BIG venues in Hawaii??
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Hawaii cannot host such an event. We have a large enough football stadium, but its not indoors.
That's too bad. I'd bet teams would be willing to come for a CMP event despite the costs. Imagine if FIRST expanded big time to Asia, which is what we are hoping for and working on getting more teams? That would be the best "central" location to have it. I have yet to hear of any team outside of Hawaii complain about our Hawaii regional yet, except that they couldnt stay longer.:p |
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Football stadium would work in the days of Disney it was outdoors covered stage setup in the parking lot at Epcot
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-Jim |
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Well believe me,
if it could happen in Hawaii, that would be great! Who knows, We've been told by certain FIRST officials in the past that it was impossible to have a Hawaii regional over the years, and with the support of other FIRST officials, NASA, our State Government, BAE Systems and fellow Hawaii/mainland teams, we proved them wrong! Lets start the push now!! :yikes: |
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2010 championships should be held in indianapolis
there is room with the new lucas oil staduim and the pits can be right next to in the convention center |
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I for one, would love to see it back in Orlando (I wasn't around when it was origionally here... i wish i was though). The magic of disney + the florida weather would make it perfect
(Eric, we had the tent pits for the Florida Regional from 2003-2007, I know what your talking about) |
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Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa...are they thinking bout changing nationals. noooo im graduating this year...Im goina be SO jealous if you get it back in disney, that would be so sweet! but not fair
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I don't know about the future and won't know about the future until the information is made available. What I do know about is a moment that I will never forget. It occurred Saturday night after all the competitions were finished, the medals and trophies had been awarded, the crowds had dispersed, and most of the action had moved to the Finale. I had returned with my friend, Sarah Plemmons, (who was the fantastic Volunteer Coordinator for the Galileo pits) to retrieve her car. We were walking to the elevator to take us down to the garage where it was parked. Where we were walking was across the grass near where the big FIRST banner had hung for a few days and where colorful groups of people had thrown frizbees, played, walked, talked, and laughed. But Saturday night after all was said and done, it was still. Quiet. Beautiful. I stood there for a few minutes and inhaled the fresh cool air and the moment of stillness and I told Sarah that I understand the FIRSTers who remember Disney with fondness and a desire to return. If the Championship were to move from Atlanta, I would have that same sadness, happy fondness, and the desire to return to the wonder that is the Championship in Atlanta. I'm very glad I had that quiet moment with no one around but Sarah. She didn't even attempt one OINK OINK BOOM - I think she was too tired. :)
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i hope that the competition comes more towards the west coast
i dont think i can handle another 24 hours in just airports and planes |
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hey what about the thought of new york city in madison square garden? plenty of seating hotels a plenty and pit space
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Those are just a few of the reasons that the Championship event requires a domed stadium next to or including a massive amount of floor space for the pits. You also need many thousands of hotel rooms near the event with rapid transit close by. An airport very close by that can handle 90 million passengers per year is also helpful. Hundreds of restaurants close by are also helpful. Atlanta easily meets this requirement. We haven't even talked about the weather yet. Atlanta "almost" always has great weather for Championship's. Yes there have been a few times when the evening at the FIRST Finale party has been in chilly weather but overall the weather has been great for the entire 3 or 4 days. There appear to be only a few cities that might meet this criteria, maybe Indianapolis or St. Louis? Some here have mentioned that the weather in those cities has been comparable to Atlanta weather in mid April but I can't say. I am sure that the First staff involved with this type of decision making will make a good decision for the Championship event from 2011 and beyond. It has been fantastic having the event in my "back yard" for 6 years and I would love for that to continue. However, I am sure other cities that have the right facilities would also do a great job so best of luck to every city being considered! Dave |
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The following are cities that offer an Airport to affiliated city train service just like Atlanta currently does.
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I would be willing to bet if The Championship Event ever moved, it would be one of the cities listed above for just this very reason. |
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What about Indianapolis? Does that have rail service from the airport? |
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Looking back through the posts I see New Orleans being mentioned occasionally. It sure could use the economy boost. I visited in 2008 and stayed for a few days. It really is a wonderful city. There's 591 hotel results thrown up when I ask Google for Hotels near the Super Dome. Most seem to be easy walking distance, and as one who hiked all over looking at the sites I know that the streets aren't bad in the French Quarter. The disadvantage I see is that I don't believe it has a rail system like MARTA. What does anyone else think about it as a choice?
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I have volunteered at a few of these events (multiple final fours, Indianapolis Tennis Champs, etc...) and I have seen first hand how well we do with continuous shuttles for events like this. While light rail would be GREAT (there is some discussion currently) I'm sure it won't happen here in Indy until at least the next round of bids for a new FIRST championship city. One more thing ... if there was to be any consideration of moving FTC and FLL into the convention center, Lucas Oil Stadium is large enough for the FRC playing fields AND the FRC pits. |
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My suggestion is Disney. I attended the 2001 event and the atmosphere was electric. Much more than the Championships since. The pits and the playing fields were not far away from each other. That meant for an easy transition from the field to the pit. You have to admit that it's a VERY long walk. With this great distance it's hard to go back and forth. Also the venue is much to big. It doesn't have that closeness like the regionals. Let's get away from these giant 70,000 seat stadiums. You only need seating for 15,000 at the most. That's my 2cents. :ahh:
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Let's think about this a bit. There are 340 teams at the Championships. On average, each team brings 10 students and 2 mentors, for a total of 12, of whom 6 need seating most of the time and 6 need it part of the time. (Assumed numbers; actual average is higher. The 6 who need it part of the time are the drive team and 2 "pit guards".) So, 340*6=2040. That's reasonable-- Until you figure that during Einstein, each team needs 10 seats, unless they're on the floor and then they need 5. 328*10+12*5=3340. You could still do it in a 15,000-seat area. BUT... How many teams travel with 12 people to the championship? Not many. Plus, I didn't count the visiting populace, the judges, and such like. So let's say that you bring the average up to 30 persons/team, which is much closer. Again, 24 need seating the whole time, but we'll say that all of them do because the drive team does like to take a break now and again. Also, 340 is a small estimate; I believe it's closer to 350 now. So, 350*30=10,500. Round up to 11,000 for the FRC event, to include everyone (judges, refs, volunteers that aren't on Einstein, etc.). Incidentally, that's actually a pretty small estimate; my team traveled with about 30, and that was everyone. We were often dwarfed in the stands by other teams... BUT (again), you forget FTC. 10 students per team, plus parents and adults--call it 15 people per team average. I believe that that's another division worth--80 teams. 80*15=1200 people. And FLL, same as FTC (roughly)--1200 people. So you have 11000+2400=13400 people. Again allowing for spectators and judges, 14,000. So you could get everyone in, with a little margin, if you make one key assumption: You're assuming that 6 FRC-sized fields can fit into the floor area of a 15,000-20,000 seat stadium (which would be what, basketball or hockey?), and that there will then be enough entrances and exits for everyone, and that there's a way to arrange them for maximum view, and that there's adequate pit space nearby and a short way to get to it. And remember, they all have to be able to see the Championship field. If you can find such a place, propose it to FIRST. But remember: you also have to allow for international teams (airport), easy transport (light rail, bus system, lots of parking), plenty of hotel rooms (hey, all those 14,000 people have to stay SOMEWHERE), and no other events at about the same time that'll really tax the above-mentioned transit/lodging arrangements. If the above criteria were taken, I'd propose Long Beach as the site. It fits, right? (Well, until you try cramming 6 FRC fields onto the Sports Arena floor, that is.) |
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Of all the discussions here, it looks like Indy seems the most likely choice other than Atlanta.
I'd go for DisneyWorld any day, but I agree also that it just cant do the event justice facilities-wise like Atlanta. |
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you're all invited to hawaii!!! its a really really long plane ride considering where's you're team is but its so worth it!!! we could go into aloha stadium but sorry no roof but who would need it if you're in hawaii!!!:D
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Raymond James Stadium anyone?;) |
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i would love to say that the DC convention center would be a great place, but considering price, it probably would be a little absurd. Also if you are trying to get from the airport to the competition via train it would work to well coming from reagan because most flights to DC come through dulles. THis location as a champion ship event would only work once the dulles rail extension is completed. however concerning space, there is plenty of it. the DC regional was full with plenty of space to spare, while only using one of the centers 4 halls which can be combined into one.
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All I remember was being hot all the time and could care less about the robots. Going to the parks afterwards was nice and all but our old lead teacher was right: the FIRST championships at Disney is more about Disney than is about FIRST. We need to be somewhere where FIRST is the main focus not a side attraction in an amusement park. |
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I know the kids on my team had fun when FIRST was at EPCOT in '97, but FIRST wasn't always the first thing on their minds. The adults on the team saw it very differently -- several of them told me they'd rather have been there with their own families. The following year we chose to compete at the (new) Midwest Regional, rather than go back to Disney. |
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I will say however that Phoenix would be an excellent location for the 2017 Championships and beyond :D Anyway if a change of scenery can be made to the Championships without compromising its quality, I'm all for it. |
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