What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Especially their newest one: http://youtube.com/watch?v=iHtymB-lQIc

Pot calling the kettle black? Seriously, what right does Apple have to say Microsoft spends too much on advertising?

Typical Microsoft commercial: "Look at all these people, companies and groups who succeed with Microsoft Windows"
Apple's Rebuttal: LOL LOOK AT ALL THAT MONEY YOU SPEND! MINE USES PICTURES LOL!

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

John Gruber perhaps said it best: (n.b.: Gruber's quite loose with his language elsewhere on the site)

Besides, I think you might be missing the point Apple's trying to convey: their product works, Microsoft's doesn't, and now Microsoft's trying to fight back with ads instead of a working product.


Of course, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I thought the exact same thing. I think they are starting to go to far and are starting to appear mean.


BTW, hey Apple, a Mac is a PC.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

But...that's where Apple is wrong. Microsoft's product DOES work as shown by their commercials. I personally use Vista everyday. I have yet to have a single problem with Vista, and I have been using it for months.

I personally believe Apple should work on lowering their prices instead of dishing out millions in advertising...

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

maybe apple should open source their stuff, therefore it gets more attention. if you gave manufacturers like Dell, HP, and Gateway the option to add an Apple o.s. to their PC, you might see more use.

otherwise, lower your prices, make it work for people who will actually LIKE to use it, and not just use it because it's COOL and think it's NICE.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

While we're at it, let's have Cadillac or BMW make a car that sells for $15,000.

Apple is not your average computer company. They are quite content to let Dell/Gateway/Acer/Asus/anyone fight it out for the low end of the market; they're quite happy reaping sizable margins from the higher-end product they sell.

At last week's Keynote, Apple's COO Tim Cook noted that Apple has 18% of the US computer market--but 31% of the revenue share. Almost one in three dollars spent in the United States on a computer is on a Mac. You don't get those numbers selling $500 laptops.

I think you're mixing up your lingo. Apple's long been involved in open source software to varying degrees. If you're talking about Apple licensing Mac OS X to other manufacturers, then I venture a hearty been there, done that. Apple doesn't need to license it, and lose their ability to integrate hardware with software as effectively by doing so.

As someone who actually likes to use OS X (and merely tolerates XP at work) and thinks it works just fine for me, I believe Apple's prices are fair for their product. Any eye candy is just a perk.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

So you're happy with overpaying for eyecandy? The sad thing is is you can build computers with the same specs often for 1/2 the price of what they're selling. What Cook is really saying is that they're advertising department is good, not their computers.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Mac (a C2D Macbook w/ 1 gig of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Celeron D running Windows XP, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 20 seconds. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, Finder will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Safari is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Macs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Mac that has run faster than its Windows counterpart, despite the Macs' faster operating system. My 1.2 ghz celeron with 256 megs of ram runs faster than this 2.0 Ghz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Macintosh is a superior machine.

Mac addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I agree with Billfred. Plus, I do not think Apple is a computer built for everybody. Some people will use it and see absolutely no difference. Some will see it just does not work for them. For for some of us, it is perfect. I love the simplicity, elegance and thoughtfulness put into it. I love convenience and the little extra features that make life simple. I love the standard hardware that is made to run perfectly with the OS. I love that there aren't 200 applications to do the same thing. It's usually 1 or 2 very good applications. I love that I never have to worry about viruses, trojans, spyware etc as few exist. I am very happy with my mac. I have XP and Vista computers but they are made for different purposes. You are paying for the time and effort it took to give you the comfort with a mac.

This is not to say that I think Microsoft is useless. It has its place. I find it great for developing applications, robotics apps, the ability to expand, customize and build hardware on your own terms. For everyday use, I definitely prefer the mac though. There are just too many little issues with windows that I don't want to deal with. You are very much entitled to whatever makes your life simpler. And yes, you can build cheaper, powerful, better looking, blah blah for 1/2 the price. But some of us prefer the convenience and service.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Oh, we're supposed to actually watch commercials? huh....

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Also, I hope Apple knows they're shooting themselves in their own feet when it comes to Virus and malware protection. Microsoft's biggest fault, apparently, is it's popularity. So many viruses are written to attack Windows. Now what happens if the Mac somehow reaches, say, 50% of the market share. Are they seriously going to deny that their won't be viruses written to attack it?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Yes, happy to the point of recommending it to my friends and coworkers--and they don't seem to mind overpaying for eyecandy, either. It might be that the value of the entire system is at a price they're willing to pay.

I won't flame anyone who isn't feeling it, though I will note that 1 GB of RAM is low for an Intel-based Mac. My MacBook has 2 GB; you can now option up a MacBook Pro to four.

To answer your request: For me, my Mac is faster, more stable, and more durable than the PCs I have owned and worked with over the years. The build quality is better than most PCs--thinner, lighter, stronger--which is important when you talk laptops. Add in thoughtful features--MagSafe connectors, slot-loading optical drives (trays can break off and have opened in my bag before), a comfortable keyboard for typing, a trackpad that allows for simple scrolling (two fingers anywhere instead of feeling for some abstract edge)--and I think that they are worth the added cost.

My senior year, I led (read: did) the installation of a four-seat computer lab in my old building on campus using the aluminum iMacs. I was in that same lab last night, and they're still good as new--no trim pieces to yank off, no undesirable software installed, even on XP, and the new lab manager can run the whole thing from one spot. I call that success.

Yes, there are vulnerabilities in OS X. I know it, they know it, everyone knows it.

For most cases, though, I've found OS X's nagging to be more tastefully-impelemented than Vista's UAC prompts. When you really need permissions (changing system settings), it asks for an administrator username and password. It makes it harder to blast through them blindly and screw something up because they're harder to get past (impossible without the password) and they come up less often (which throws up a red flag you're more likely to notice).

It all comes down to value--if you can realize extra value for the added cost, get a Mac. If not, go with something else.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

beach ball hates me

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Very well said.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Yup, it'll only cost me another $225 to option up to 4 gigs. I hope my RAM is being put to good use... rendering my glossy dock and animating that ridiculous flip browse thingy.

My Mac:
Congrats on buying a Mac. Would you please type in your personal information so I can send it to the Jobs mothership in orbit? Please? No? I won't let you use your computer until you do. Oh, and you want a .Mac account right? It'll only be another $60 a year for some trivial services. Oh, but they're integrated into your operating system, so they're exciting! Didn't want that with your OS? Well, I'll just plop little menu entries in various places to remind you. But you are going to sign up with iTunes, right? No? But you're missing out on all the great features, like the way I lock up---erm, liberate---your music! You can even get album art if you sign up! Just choose Visa, Mastercard, or Discover.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Why do people get so touchy about their computer operating system, to the point of flame wars?

Really, whether you use Mac OS X, Windows, Linux, or whatever doesn't make that much difference to anyone else except you.

Who cares if someone else spends $2000 on a computer that you think you can build for $600. Why is it that this causes flame wars, but you'll never see flame wars for people who buy a BMW or Audi instead of a Toyota or Ford? If your only measure of a car is its cost, then BMW or Audi are obviously a lot more expensive for something that gets you from point A to B (and would therefore be "dumb" or "too expensive" or earn comments like "my $500 car can do that").

But obviously different people look for different things from their cars, just as different people look for different things from their OS. Some people like reliability. Some like cheap cost. Some like gaming. Some like video editing. Some like running servers. For different reasons, they will choose different OSes; whether its OSX or Windows or whatever. Sometimes they use multiple OSes, to get the best benefits of all of them, while trying to avoid their shortcomings.

That being said, right now post is being written from my iMac in OSX. It could also have come from my iMac in Vista, or my laptop in XP. There's no way you can tell. But the post came through, right?


Getting back to the topic of this thread, which was Apple's advertising, I'd say that it honestly doesn't matter. Who cares what Apple puts in their commercials? If you don't like it, change the channel. But at the end of the day, those ads get stuck in everyone's heads. Whether you like Macs or not, you remember those commercials. Like the Geico ones with the cavemen, or the animated Esurance ones, or the Bud-Wei-Ser frogs from back in the day, you don't forget a good commercial. And that's the point of effective marketing.

If you really want my two cents on marketing, here it is:

• Apple - While their "I'm a Mac..." ads have done great in the branding department, I don't think they do OSX justice. And its getting kind of old. Really, just take a screen capture of average people using the computer for normal things (like some mom sending photos of her kids to the grandparents, or someone else taking their video from their digital camera, editing it, and posting to Youtube), and film the people's reactions and the product would sell like hot cakes. For bonus points, first show people who would typically be the ones to call Geek Squad and show them how easy it is to use Macs, as that's the most likely target audience that would switch. Remember: Apple is a company dedicated to average people and creative professionals.
• Microsoft - Has usually had a lot of dumb commercials over the years, with the exception of their most recent "I'm a PC" one. Great counter to Apple's ads, though it does nothing to prove anything about the actual OS. Then again, Microsoft is by far the dominate market share leader, and its OS sells itself. The only Microsoft marketing that I see as useful is for things like Exchange, Sharepoint, or Server 2008, or similar things. Remember: Microsoft is usually a lot more dedicated to companies and professional corporate users, and is traditionally at its best with working with software for those priorities (read: Office, Exchange, Sharepoint, etc).

Windows isn't any different; they still ask for your name at install, they still bundle Live Services, Internet Explorer, and Windows Media Player so far deep into the OS that its practically impossible to extricate, they still siphon off personal info whenever they can, and they still try to sell you things like 60 trials of MS Office. (Ever notice how Office seems to know your personal info when being inserted into documents?)

For that matter, Google isn't much different either. Have Gmail? Use Google Search a lot? Watch a lot of YouTube videos? I bet they have gigabytes of information on you.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Advertising isn't supposed to tell you the truth. It's there to sell you a perception so you'll buy their product because if they were actually selling the truth then they'd have to admit to their warts too.
Tell people what they want to hear and hope that is enough to get them to buy what you're selling. Perception fuels reality.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I didn't say Windows was any better. It's sad that the assumption is, if not a Mac, Windows. It leads to a race to the bottom. Even still, Windows force you to type in your personal information when you first use your computer, nor does it nag you to pay for Live.

For that matter, Google is different. What information they do have is from the course of using their services, and it's information that they're probably legally bound to keep for a while too. They did not force me to put in my name, nor did they nag me to upgrade to the paid version of Gmail.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I just bought a new Macbook Pro, it came with 2gig of RAM, I went online, bought 4 gig's for less then $80, Apple really over prices extras on their online store but who wouldn't? Its easy money for them and simple business.
This is my first Mac and I love it. The easy of using it, the speed and how seamless everything feels. Yes Mac asked for my info but I have not been forced or even asked to upgrade to anything other then mobile me which I would pay much, much more for because it is so great. I have been asked for more personal info while setting up windows systems then with the Mac.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

To quote Gruber again...

Fun note: people who still start the Mac vs. Windows complaints are Windows users.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

It was bound to happen...

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Absolute rubbish.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Agreed. Mazin and I both use Linux :mad:

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Question still though, you're the only ones throwing a hissy fit over it. This thread, nor similar drifts in other threads, were not started by Mac users.

Here's another one, while we're making blanket, unbaised statements Mazin, why don't you have any real profile information? 1337 was once a registered team, in I believe Germany, that never competed. Yet you living in Indiana. You lack of personal information also pushes the idea you are willing to let the magic of internet annonimity prevail.

Lets also play with with this bit of information too. I have a 4 year old mac that can transfer over 20 gigs of information to an external drive in 30 minutes. Yet you, someone who has not put a face, name, team number, or anything behind your posts, brings up such head scratchers like the 20 minute 17 meg transfer.

I accept the input of those who don't provide information just as much as Billfred and others who have a face, team number, information, and I've met in person; but the point is my points can be refuted by you, just as we are refuting yours. You offer not much background information and just a lot of hoopla (HOOPLA!) to stir up muck. In my above 20 gigs in 30 minutes test I forgot to mention that it was from my HD to an external hooked up using FireWire 800 with nothing else running. And I can assume you post wasn't done under the same circumstances. My files weren't that many, and just a few large ones. You might have had a ton of 1kb files that added up to 17mb.

I have a machine that's 4 years old, runs faster, better, and is in better physical shape than anyone else in my class in college, and I paid slightly more than they did. I got MY value out of it. You get your value out of Linux or whatever the you're using. Don't argue about the machine characteristics vs. value when others don't share it with you.

Now, how about we get it back onto the path of the commercials again?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

[RANT]OK HERE IS THE DEAL. Vista Sucks. OS X Sucks. Linux Sucks. Now how is it that I came to this realization? Simple, they all do the same thing, but none of them do it perfectly. Also a feature that two of the three may have, the third does not. The thing is that if any of the operating systems were perfect, then we would not have wars over what is better, we would not have problems at all. Sadly though, we don't live in "Physics World" (the world where everything happens as planned according to my teacher), so nothing will work right. Why is it that everyone always focuses on the computers anyways? Has anyone seen the way some other technologies that are younger than computers in general don't work right? For example, we got a new DVD recorder for our entertainment system, and it worked for an hour, then it froze. Why is it that something that is "simple" can't even run the way it's supposed to? What about picture frames? Has anyone noticed that sometimes the most expensive ones end up failing (falling, cracking, discoloring) faster than others? [/RANT]

P.S. I am a Mac user, not a mac, and I see the flaws in both popular operating systems.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I've used Windows all my life, and have never had any major issues at all. I see no reason to switch, and no commercial would ever convince me one way or another anyways, as said commercial is produced by the company trying to sell me a product. I prefer to just look at the stats on the computer, read reviews, and try things out for myself.

As for the OS's themselves, the main problem with any Apple computer is that they are just so expensive it's ridiculous. Main problem with Windows is that any prebuilt computer that has a Windows OS on it will be loaded down in bloatware, and will run ALOT slower than it has the potential to. Luckily, I built my last computer from scratch so it generally runs perfectly (unless I do something stupid like, let's say, not insert the RAM in all the way :o ) and it was MUCH cheaper.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

dont forget about me! i use linux too. (except at school)

apple makes the commercials because they are embarassed by there small user base. :D

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

By that logic, then obviously Mozilla is embarrassed by their small market share if they have to advertise Firefox through Google.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I have a mac...I use it and like it. I have a linux server, it works very well. I also have a windows comp, although I hardly boot it up it works fine for the things that I do use it for.

As said before, why do people freak out just because others aren't using the same OS as them. Who cares if they paid double the price for it, it all comes down to what the person prefers using and how productive they are with it.

If your owned a business and the comp OS had nothing to do with what you have to do, would you stop person x from using a different OS if they are more productive on it, then on another OS?

The way I see it, my time is valuable, and if spending twice as much on a computer to be able to do more with my time, then its worth it. As the words of Dr. Pausch -- "You come into my office wanting to talk about if you feel like your money is good here then ill kick you out. But if you want to want to talk about whether your time is good here, then I will talk to you for hours on end."

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Actually...I would. Volume licenses bro. lol

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Yes, but why should it be neccesary to make such an upgrade on a mac, which is supposed to work fine out of the box. (as per the commercials)

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

These days, you don't have to; the new MacBooks come with 2 GB standard. My original iBook had 1 GB of RAM; I upgraded to two, and boy does that make a Mac sing. When I traded up to a MacBook, I made sure to check the extra gig on the options list.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

And PC's come with 3gb standard... but thats not the issue.

That "extra gig" on the options list costs you quite a bit of money. Currently my PC has 2 gigs of ram, but it wasn't always like that. I bought (or more appropriatly, built) my PC with a Patriot 2x512MB CAS5 DDR-667 set of RAM. Cost me about 90 dollars what, 2 years ago. DDR2 ram prices were still pretty high up there so I opted for the 1 gig set. About just under a year later, I decided to throw another gig in there, so I ditched my Patriots and went with a Crucial Ballistix CAS4 DDR2-800 2x1GB set of RAM. Bought it for 90 dollars also. So essentially I doubled my RAM for 2x the price. But that really isn't fair towards this arguement. Nowadays I can buy a new 2 gig set of DDR2 RAM at around 25 dollars. Or I can get a 4 gig set for well, 100% more than that, oh, a whopping gargantuan 55 dollars (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220335)

But wait, how much would it cost me to upgrade my RAM on a mac? Well, thats a trick question, you don't. You buy a new mac. Okay, well lets set this up a different way. How much more would it cost me to buy a Mac Pro with 4 gigs as compared to a Mac Pro with 2? 500 dollars. Thats a far cry from the 30 dollar markup on a standard PC. Like... thats 20 times more.....

But that really isn't the kicker. 8800GT costs about 80 dollars now, but in a Mac prepare to shove another 150 into the "upgrade" option. God forbid I want to throw something a little med-high end, like lets say 2xATI hd4850's in crossfire. Oh wait, I can't do that. I forgot, can't game on a Mac... High end card is a measly 8800gt, while it was a nice med-end card a year ago, it can't hold its own to even a 140 dollar HD4850. Nowadays.

Of course, then theres just the outright ABSURD markups. +100 dollars for another 16x DVDRW drive, +600 for a glossy 20" monitor, MAC OSX (server) 1000 dollars, (hey, linux is free....).

Now all of these markups are based already off of a 2,800 dollar pricetag! I can build a skulltrail PC with 4 gigs, and TRIPLE GTX280 SLI and two quadcore processors for that price. What does the mac pro give you instead of the PC? An OS that limitates you in the programs you can use, and an apple logo on a pasty white case.

You cannot tell me a mac is nicer...


How does that little silver and white plastic shelled case offer any more aesthetical purposes than this alu silver Lian Li case?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Wow... :rolleyes:

What do you gain by bragging about your computer for several paragraphs online while comparing it to a photo that isn't even a real Mac in a thread that was supposed to be about Apple's ads?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

How Apple killed the Macbook and crippled the MBP: http://www.gizmag.com/no-firewire-ki...macbook/10238/

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Hey, I don't own that PC. Not my computer, not bragging about it. I'm just mearly showing the possibilities. I highly suggest you re-read my post after you take off your silver and white glasses. First paragraph, show an example of a cheap RAM upgrade. Second paragraph, come up with the hardware arguement on upgrades and price. Third paragraph, reinforce earlier arguement with more examples. Fourth paragraph, continue doing so. Fifth paragraph, offer a common perception that Mac's are nicer with a rebuttal.

And I think you kind of missed the point of the post. It is just replying and elaborating on BillFred's earlier post on how "just ticking that extra gig option". And then why that is so absurd.

(I also changed the pictures, more to your liking.)

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

OK. Why do you use Windows? Is it its excellent technical merits? Its impeccable security record? Its thoughtful GUI? Its competitive price ($240 for "Home Premium" last I checked)? Or is it because you simply cannot switch?

When you say that Apple computers are expensive, I'm sure you mean that they don't offer much low-end models, rather than they're overpriced.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Err... what do you do that uses up all that RAM?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I could think of a million programs that would run better with 2 gigs of ram.

Inventor, any game made after 2006, any person that multi tasks a lot, inventor again just because its that important, and rendering program, any 3d modeling program, ect....

Personally I use windows because.. well... everything uses windows. It isn't that i'm reluctant to switch from Windows to OSX, its the fact that i'm HIGHLY reluctant to have my hardware monopolized and my OS have lacking software support from third parties. Not to mention the extra hit in my wallet for no gain in either speed, or ease of use.

Apple could gain a much larger market share if they would allow OSX to be installed on a "PC". But they keep showing that they have no interest in selling a OS, or allowing it to be used on non Mac hardware, their current lawsuit against Psystar perfectly shows that. If I could go out and purchase OSX at my local computer store, I just MIGHT do it to give it a whiz. Otherwise there is just no reason for me to ever buy a Mac, too big a hit in the wallet for what you get in return. I would not recieve any more security from using OSX than Windows. I run Avast!, Spybot and Adaware, those three programs (along with simply running the windows firewall) has kept me from recieving any high threat malware, as it simply just gets detected on download. (And yes, the only way that I would get infected is if I let it into the system, it's the only way anyone gets infected. They get it without knowing by downloading a file or program they percieve as safe).

So to directly answer your questions Mazin in short. I use windows because it is superior in 3rd party support, and OSX offers nothing in return for what I give up by switching. Also it very much is that Macs are overpriced, not in the fact that they have no "low end model". Just because something costs 600 doesnt technically mean its "low end". Considering a 600 dollar PC can perform on par, if not better than a 1100+ dollar Mac, i'd consider the Mac to be overpriced. I'd hate to see how underperforming a 600 dollar Mac would be, i'd probably cry if I had to see some simple processor and RAM benchmarks.

PS: XP 32 bit OEM only cost me 55 dollars when I purchased it two years ago. Microsoft regularly has OS blowout sales where you can get Vista 64 Bit home for 100 dollars. I'd rather drop an extra 100 dollars on an OS when building a computer, than dropping an extra 600 for a Mac. If you buy from Dell, that 550 dollar dell with its q6600 with 3 gigs of RAM comes with Vista anyways, so OS prices are moot in the retail industry. Also they've gotten much much better on the bloatware side of things.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I'm going to address these point by point.
First, ease of use. Macs have a definite improvement in ease of use; one may not notice it right away because one is used to Windows, but after adjustment, it is definitely easier to use. I'll address speed later.
Second, security. Sure, you have your system completely locked down, but you require three programs PLUS a firewall to keep it secured; most Mac users I've talked to have no issues, even with torrenting, and they run absolutely no security software.

Now onto speed: I found this very interesting test. On the desktop test, they found that all their different program launches (especially the stress test) were faster on the Mac. Start up times were significantly different: it was the difference between 28.7 seconds (Mac) and 1 minute 13 seconds (MS). Shutdown was the difference was 4.0 seconds (Mac) and 44.3 seconds. These differences persisted for both laptops and desktops and the computers had similar specs. The Macs even ran Vista more quickly than the PCs.
Note: in that benchmark test, the Macs were paired against equally priced or more expensive PCs.

Now please explain: why do you feel there is significantly worse performance in Macs?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Why does any thread that even remotely involves Apple always mutate into a Mac vs PC thread?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Genetic engineering?

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

All I can say is that I "look-forward" to each new Apple commercial, and I "fast-forward" through the Microsoft commercials as fast as I can reach the remote.

I find the Apple commercials clever and fun; with an on-target message embedded in each one. Microsoft's commercials seem to be targeting demographics that don't include me.

Time will tell...

Blake

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/13/f...xhibitionists/

i didnt pay one dollar. got vista ULTIMATE 32 bit and 64 bit for free. and all i had to do was let them track my habbits. half the time i wasnt even on that computer.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I will debate that by simply saying who in their right mind would buy a PC for 1800 dollars with a e6600 processor, 3 gigs of ram and a super subpar video card? What Gateway was doing was trying to appeal to the pro-mac users by coming up with an iMac... in black. Thusly they succeeded in imitating it by making it grossly overpriced, and underperforming. So I won't be bias in that regard, buy the Mac if you are into wasting your money like that, it'll sure as hell beat buying the wannabe Mac PC.

That isn't the arguement i'm trying to convey here, thats an absurd choice of a PC to put against a Mac just because its whole goal for that PC is to be a "sleek artistic design" instead of being a work horse PC. Infact i'd go as far to say that PC is incredibly overpriced, incredibly retarded, and just tries to copy the Mac in all of its worst ways. I can say it succeeded in imitating the Mac, for the worse.

heres what i'd benchmark against that Mac....
Coolermaster Centurion 5 case - 55
Q6600 (quad core 2.4ghz) - 190
Asus p5k Pro motherboard - 102
Patriot 4 gig set of DDR2-1066 Ram - 112
WD 300gb Hard Drive - 70
NEC 8x DVD RW drive - 20
Nvidia GTX260 video card - 180
Enermax Liberty 620w PSU - 75
Vista 64 bit home basic - 90

Total - 894 before shipping, call it 935 after shipping. All prices from Newegg or remembered from the "hot deals" section at hardforum.com

That PC will obliterate any game out there, show incredible muscle in all processor intensive applications, and will just demolish inventor, cad, 3dsmax, solidworks, maya, Unreal Editor, ect. Not to mention the capability of slapping on a 50 dollar aftermarket heatsink (like the Thermalright 120 Ultra) and be capable of clocking that processor to atleast 3.2ghz easy on that motherboard. Heat would be the only limiting factor really, especially with 1066mhz RAM. (Asus boards are quite robust at overclocking, easily one of the best boards out there, probably only behind DFI).

It doesn't try to imitate the mac, it just beats it. Flat out, period, end of discussion. This whole performance thing isn't truly "Mac vs PC" its whats inside the box, not what OS you're using. You can only buy the cookie cutter builds Apple offer you, but I can build whatever I please using Windows. I can put whatever I want in there, and come out leaps and bounds ahead in just the choice of components. You cannot argue a e6600 vs a q6600, or 1 gig of RAM vs 4, or a hd2600(rofl) vs a GTX260. The selections are so vastly different in performance. The fact that I would of saved 550 dollars by building the PC listed above is just sprinkles on top of the added performance.

Maybe i'm on an anti-overpriced anything crusade, not just an anti-apple crusade. It's just that Apple gives the face of overpriced components. That gateway listed in that little Mac vs PC review is LAUGHABLE. I highly dislike that PC just as much as I dislike the Mac. It swindles users by offering an "oooh shiney yaaay" type of appeal instead of putting the components first.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Well, of course you'll be able to build a better PC for less money than a Mac if you build it from scratch (or if you buy it from a company using some sub-par parts), but that's normal; manufacturers add cost for service provided, not just the hardware they put into it.

That having been said, I was sort of playing the devil's advocate. Both PCs and Macs are overpriced from most dealers, especially the OSes....

Linux!

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

<rant>

So wait let me get this straight..... Billfred, Joe, Mazin and Mike you are all fighting over which is better an Apple or Windows. Now I'm not as smart as some who frequent these boards, but please dummy it down for me, I don't understand it I mean they are 2 very different products, I mean an apple is a delicous fruit that grows on trees and has been known although unconfirmed to keep the doctor away, and windows let the light in and a cool breeze in on a warm spring day actually my window is open right now, and I am a little chilly i should probobly close it... Now maybe my pun is a little intelectually low brow but i think i get the point accross stop arguing just stop. Your not gonna change each others minds nor are you going to change mine or anyone elses (probobly) I mean whoopie Joe and Billfred LOVE MACs i gotta go out and buy 5 or OMG Mazin and Mike they love PCs Im gonna have to get more. I've used MACs, Windows and Linux, and to be honest the only thing I've never cared for is Linux, I am sure its got its perks I've just never put the time into learning them, and i have Win XP installed on my PC and plan on getting a MAC for when i go back to school this spring

</rant>

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I find it interesting that people keep bringing up the fact that you can build a PC for less than a Mac. What about those of us who don't have the time or knowledge to build a PC? My dad and I discussed building a PC (I am a lifelong Mac user at home; Windows at school). We consulted with a friend of mine who has taken a class on building computers. He told us that to get really good performance out of it, we would have to put in around $1000. But he also told us that building a PC from scratch is not easy. My dad doesn't have the time and I don't WANT to put in the time it would take to build a PC(and that the cost would be better spent on getting me a new/refurbished MacBook for college). The computer I am working on right now is almost two years old, cost $1200 new, and is running better than the new PCs my school got last year - although I do not know the specs on those machines. But trust me - EV Nova loads in about 4 seconds on this computer, takes 30 seconds on those ones ;)
As I see it the biggest difference between a PC and a Mac, at least concerning me, is a PC's ability to run more games. I would REJOICE if I were able to play Americas Army 2.8 or Oblivion. But that is the ONLY reason I would want a PC over a Mac. Even if I had the money I would not be willing to shell out $1000 to play games. I'll stick with Wolfenstein ET for now. It is enough fun :)

On the subject of commercials - I really dislike the new Microsoft commercial. I don't understand it. It kind of reminds me of a kid looking for attention. "Hey look over here look over here!" They don't inform me on the OS. And why the heck would they talk about "stereotyping" people as PCs? I just did not understand how this was related in any way of how their computers work. The Apple commercials are more saying "Sup. Dude check this out. Pretty sweet, huh?" When they first started their ad campaign, I was thinking "Wow Mac has ads now?!" followed by "Ooo thats cool." I think that is a better way of getting customers than saying "HEY OVER HERE!"

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

The Apple commercials I've seen are not informative on the OS either. If Mac and PC Windows were running for political office, the Mac ads could easily be classed as "attack" ads. (The ads in question are the "I'm a Mac"/"I'm a PC" ones.) The Windows ones are much harder to class as attack ads. Maybe distraction ads, but nothing more.

My POV is, I don't care what OS I'm running, as long as it works.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Thats true. But at least I understand what they are trying to tell me :)

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but Mac OS X is based on Unix. the reason i find this kind of funny is just because other Unix based operating systems include Linux, Solaris, and BSD.. the common factor being that all of these are free... OS X however, for some reason is $130 (as though they don't charge enough for their hardware to just give people the OS for free) vista is at least made entirely by Microsoft, but Mac is mostly components you can have for free only a little more shiny so people will pay for it.

so... i'm mostly just trying to say that i find it disgusting how Mac brags so much in their ads about their unique features when most of them aren't unique at all

(however i should mention that i'm quite biased on this issue, i use Linux Ubuntu, and windows vista)

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

The car analogy brought up earlier is a good way to put it. Neither is superior across the board. OS X has strengths in certain fields, Windows in other fields.

For example, Gaming. Windows dominates this market, no contest. There's no point in comparing the gaming power of a Windows machine to that of a Mac. It's like saying my Audi A4 can drive faster than your sailboat. Entirely different purposes, entirely different focus. Currently OS X is focused on workflow, mainly in the visual field. Windows is currently focused on the more industrial fields, be it gaming or industrial design.

That being said, if we go down to a lower level of specificity, you will find certain gains in favor of each OS. If we look at drivers, there's a clear winner. Now, I'm being general here. For the average user (who wouldn't even get what drivers ARE), OS X has better driver support. Reason? The user never has to touch them. Every now and then a little update bubble tells them to click yes, and they're done. On Windows, it's a much more manual and confusing process (!!!for the average user!!!). It involves knowing your hardware, finding the right driver on a site, and installing it without error. For the average user, Drivers are easier managed on a machine running OS X.

If we look at brute force, ignoring cost, OS X leads again. OS X supports up to 32 GB of RAM, two 3.2ghz Quad Core processors, 4TB of disk space, and 4 x ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB for graphics. Granted, you're paying out the proverbial donkey for this. There is NO windows system that can match this performance; the OS simply doesn't supply native support for this amount harware.

Now's the time when that wonderfully touchy subject of Cash gets brought up. Hands down, as far cost goes Windows systems are superior. You can't beat the 200 dollar complete machines you'll find at a Walmart sale. For the average user, this is the logical choice, and I wholeheartedly agree with it. Why spend extra money on something that you won't use?

Now we move out of the realm of the average user, and this is where it gets touchy. Some prefer OS X for various reasons, some prefer Windows for other reasons. Rarely will you find arguments made for either side that are devoid of opinionated statements.

For my personal choice, I'm currently with OS X on a Macbook pro sporting 4gb of ram, highest video memory option, and largest fastest hard disk available. Why did I pick this? I was heading off to college, to do college-y stuff. For me, that entails surfing the web, reading emails, and writing papers/presentations. I don't game, and the closest thing to industrial applications I partake in is CAD. For CAD I'm able to use bootcamp, with no problems. So for a college student like me, with no real loyalty to either Mac or Windows, I wanted only a few things out of my laptop: Good battery life, Large and bright display, reliability, fast boot time, and clean hardware. I'm fortunate enough to have cost not be a barrier for this computer (note: this was before the crash. Times are little tougher now.), and so I was able to narrow down my search between two machines. For me, it was either a Falcon Northwest TLX, or a Macbook Pro. I eventually decided on the MBP for a few factors: The boot time of OS X is quite rapid, the MPB has great battery life, and gorgeous display.

I realize that each "camp" has their own reasons for choosing whatever machine they chose, and I respect both options. Being someone who has no loyalty to any company, I will be more than willing to switch back to a windows machine once Microsoft succeeds in building a product that tops my MBP in my eyes. Again, this is a personal opinion, and I hope I've steered away from insulting either camp. Whatever comp suits your needs and constraints, hurrah to you. I have what works for me, and I'm glad that the companies are on decent enough terms to allow a good amount of interoperability.

...Ok, I'm all written out for now... I might come back and address the ads later.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

I doubt the game play differences are the result of the OS differences. But I might be wrong - especially if you and I have different opinions about where the OS ends and the game applications and graphics libraries begin.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

The idea of that was the lack of native games for OS X. There simply aren't as many. There are ports, but for the higher end games, they don't perform nearly as well.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Understood - Thanks

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

most popular games for windows can run in linux through a handy dandy thing called wine, and usualy at the same speed and in some (not many) cases faster, though i still usually use windows for games, i just find it comforting to know that when i move out and go to college and can no longer use my dad's computer for games i'll be able to run them on my laptop using the OS that works best for me.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

They generally do have very well working products. The problem is that they've built up such a horrid reputation that everyone ignores that fact. It's their fault for the reputation but I have no idea how they can fix that problem.
See above. They are trying to break the reputation that Vista is a horrible operating system.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Who likes Microsoft's ad's striking back at apple?
I personally think their pretty funny. and they put apple in a hotspot, especially this one

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Say what you want, but my polycarbonate MacBook has been the best laptop I have ever used. Considering that it can be had new for $1k and my last laptop was a $700 HP that's given me no end of trouble (not to mention lacking several features), I just can't stand anymore people that complain that Macs are so expensive "when you can get a dell for $x hurhurhur."

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

With the exception that the laptop she buys for "$699.99" in the commercial has a starting price of $799.99 and doesn't meet her specifications at that price (unless you consider 2.0 GHz "speed").

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

She'd have to spend almost twice as much to get anything faster from Apple, and quite a bit more than that to get one with a decent sized screen.

I get a kick out of the comments to the video....lots of Mac true believers....

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Best Buy has a very similar computer for $699.

Not saying the computer is great or anything (the 1440x900 resolution at 17" is a pretty low density of pixels/inch, as I've seen 15" screens at 1920x1200), just that if all you do is browse the Internet and write email and use Microsoft Office, that computer is just fine.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

It doesn't really apply to college students shopping for laptops, but a large, low resolution screen is easier for us old folks to see

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to restart the apple vs. PC debate (which is really two entirely separate debates of hardware and operating systems that always get lumped together for no good reason) or say that HP's make bad or overpriced laptops. I was just pointing out that the commercial irritates by very much bending the rules they set out at the beginning of it, and showing a price not indicative of the actual product she buys.

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

It IS a commercial, so I don't know why you'd expect it to do otherwise...

:P

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

How about everybody throws their computers away [in the trash without properly recycling them of course] and uses carrier pigeons? Oh wait, my black pigeon is better than your gray pigeon, and my Jamaican pigeon is much faster then your lousy American pigeon. Don't forget my pen has lighter ink so my pigeon can go longer and further!!

Re: What's with Apple's commercials?
 

What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen messenger pigeon?
What do you mean? A Jamaican or American messenger pigeon?
Huh? I... I don't know that. Auuugh!