Hardest Regional
 

By looking at the list of teams for all the regionals, which one looks the most challenging to win?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Is there a current list? Like for all o' the teams who have signed up so far?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

They're all equally challenging.

Actually, it depends on the teams there, which team you are, and the game. And, it changes year-to-year as teams change and change events. I would say that we can't predict before the events.

Oh, and team lists aren't final yet. Teams can still sign up for more events, and there are a lot of slots left.

There is a team list for each regional on the FIRST website.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Regional Information:

https://my.usfirst.org/myarea/index....event_type=FRC

Just click on "Team List"

Re: Hardest Regional
 

well if you go by team list alone i have to say i cant wait to see who comes out the winners of Midwest:cool:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

It's hard to tell as of now... There's some regionals in certain areas that are always hard because of the caliber of the teams that come from there but also any team can have a rough season or regional so we'll have to get a little more info before judging.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Orrrrrr (more cookies for Pat Fairbank)..... http://www.frclinks.com

http://www.frclinks.com/e/ct - Connecticut Regional team list
http://www.frclinks.com/e/oh - Buckeye Regional team list

etc.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I wouldn't say they're all equally challenging. There are some, i noticed mainly midwest and florida where teams of a much more experience all sign up to compete against one another and fewer teams attending, as of now, are still in the development stages.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

The answer the last 3 years would be any regional that 1114 attends.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

FLR has always been a Challenging regional. There are many power house teams like the X-Cats, MOE (who will not be attending this year) Spark-x (I'm sorry if i miss spelled it), both G.R.R.s, The Rocketeers, and many others. But it changes from year to year what teams are the power houses. It's interesting cause you have an equal mix of teams with major cooperation sponsors and teams that dont get the as much funding. But with the slumping economy things might be more equal funding wise.

I have noticed that many (if not all) regionals are like FLR. It's just the only one I have gone to.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

FLR has a very Canadian flaour this year with 10 teams attending, a couple from Conneicut and an Indiana team. So it'll be very interesting this year.
It's too early to tell but I'd put my bet on the Michigan Championship.
That'll be a killer event with 70 Michigan teams whaling on each other all weekend.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

The Michigan State Championship will be quite competitive as it will be the first event calling for qualification. It will also be an end of season event which are always more competitive. Lastly teams will have 2 events under their belts.

I will second Cory's response though that wherever 1114 is, it will be tough to win.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

For everybody else....

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I would say that the hardest regionals to win will be the first week ones. I say this because the teams will need to keep their sanity through all the field issues and control problems with the new systems.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Agreed with sovierr. Week 1 teams are hitting the ground hard and have little idea of what to expect in competition. Teams after have watched match clips and nailed down strategies that work and don't work. :D.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I would have to agree with you there Cory, 1114 hasn't made GTR any easier over these last couple years. Consistently GTR is one of the hardest regionals to win, especially when we used to get more American teams attending. Just look back to 06 when it was a super-regional, that was a tough regional to compete in, you had the triplets, the three world champs (296, 217, 522), all the very competitive Canadian teams, and good American teams like 4, 45, 65, 229, 703 and more. That was the hardest regional I've ever competed in.

Looking at this year so far in regional registration, Midwest is looking really strong again, Florida is always a good battle, California has strong regionals, GTR will be tough again. Its hard to know, because you never know who is going to surprise this year and come up with a great approach to the new game, but there are certainly some tough regionals out there that will match up the best teams against each other and provide some thrilling matches to watch.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

A lot of people are suggesting that there's just certain teams that make it hard to win a regional. If that's what makes a regional the hardest to win then New Jersey has to be one. 25 makes it almost impossible for any team in NJ to win unless you think of teams like 103, 375, 1089 1279 etc... But when those teams combine, its almost impossible to win over here.

You learn that you need a solid bot that plays the game efficiently and consistently, something that we still need to learn before we can ever win NJ. But, we will keep coming back for more:cool:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

thanks for the shout out... but remember, our two teams, along with 1676 beat 25, 103, and 381 one round.... and yes i totally agree, i think the nj regional is underrated, and there are tons of tough teams... but maybe i'm just biased because nj is my home regional :D

Re: Hardest Regional
 

At any given point in the competition season, there will always be some sort of obstacle.

While you can't get rid of all of them, you can, at least, negate some of the effects... with lots of practice and trial and error. With practice, the "hardest regional" shouldn't feel so hard anymore.

And I've also learned that veteran teams shouldn't be feared... teams should learn from them... they've been through it all.

That said, Las Vegas is looking pretty stacked this year...

Re: Hardest Regional
 

yea i have to agree with this one. new control,strategy on the spot, not going to be easy but thats the beauty of first there's always a way

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Used to be a very tough regional back in the day with insane teams coming from all over. This was when it was still at Rutgers though. Luckily, team 296 is coming back this year =D A lot of the older teams stopped coming once other regionals were introduced.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

In terms of just the sheer number of high-quality teams, I believe that the Michigan State Championship will be unrivaled. I also agree with others that events that 1114 have attended are "the hardest" as well (that is, unless you are paired with them:yikes: ). The Washington DC regional looks to be a "hard" regional as well, with team like 330 and 45 making a trip to this regional.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I think 330 actually dropped DC for Vegas.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Or else they're waitlisted on DC--but they are signed up for Vegas. That's going to be a tough event.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i would bet it will be one of the mid-west regionals, but Florida is also going to be bringing some tough teams down, as well as some rookies(which are always interesting)and experienced teams

Re: Hardest Regional
 

1018 is going to be a tough team this year, better watch out for them.:D

Re: Hardest Regional
 

For my money, the most objective measurement of a regional's perceived difficulty is the Blue Banner Quotient, the distribution of blue FRC banners* across the teams registered for it. For a more focused view of recent performance, the Sextuple Achievement Uniform Counting Era limits the view of BBQ to that of the 3v3 era--2005 and later, which is also the longest most students graduating in 2008 could have been on an FRC team.

For example, the 29 teams currently registered for Palmetto have earned a combined 30 banners in their history, and 20 since 2005. Do the division, and that yields a BBQ of 1.03 and a SAUCE of 0.69. At the 54-team Florida Regional, with 41 recent banners and 66 overall, a BBQ of 1.22 and SAUCE of 0.76 indicate that Florida will most likely be a tougher regional than Palmetto. (Historically, this has been the case.)

Obviously, a higher BBQ is indicative of more storied teams in attendance, but the SAUCE measurement will generally be a better measurement of the competitiveness of the teams recently. It's not a perfect measurement--for one, it weighs regional and Championship awards equally--but I think you'll find yourself in the ballpark.

Now, the hard part: computing BBQ and/or SAUCE for the regionals. (My head's had enough just computing Palmetto and Florida.) Anyone have a way of figuring it out quickly?

*For the uninitiated, blue banners are awarded for Regional Champion, Regional Chairman's Award, Division Champion, Championship Chairman's Award, and Championship Winner.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I don't have a way of figuring quickly, but some rough numbers for the L.A. Regional are: 46 teams, 31 combined banners, 20 since 2005. BBQ of 0.67, SAUCE of 0.43.

Not exactly a strong regional. That doesn't say anything about individual team strength, though-- about 50% of the total banners and all but one of the pre-2005 banners are held by two teams.

Oh, and there are exactly three out-of-state teams attending (which may drop the BBQ and SAUCE a bit). Consider this an invitation to the L.A. Regional, if you want another event. We haven't had more than one out-of-state team at a time since 2005, and would like some more teams.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

really? I know 330 and 294 have pre2005 banners, are there really no other teams at LA with banners from back then?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Make that 3 teams--980 has a Regional Winner from 2004.

294 and 330 have 9 pre-2005 (294: 4, 330: 5) and 8 2005 and later (294: 1, 330: 8) between them. Total: 17 of the 31 combined total. 980 has 3, 1717 has 2, 1860 has 2, and not many others have more than one. 968 (5 banners) is not signed up at this time. Hopefully they come...

Re: Hardest Regional
 

A quick way of calculating that might be to parse the teams history from the FIRST web page. So for example, to find all blue banners won by 1114 since 2005 I could write:
Running that returns :
Count the number of lines in the output and I would say you have your automated way of finding blue banners.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

With them signed up for SD and Vegas, I doubt it.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

The BeachBots originally signed up for DC hoping to get a grant to attend. Then we found out we were not eligible for it. So we are going to Las Vegas instead.

If I figured out the BBQ and SAUCE for Las Vegas correctly, they come out to 1.92 and 1.11 respectively based on teams currently registered. It is also a deep field with no team having more than 20% of the SAUCE points. ALL of the powerhouse teams of the West Coast will be there. I am glad I'm not working this one. It will be one to watch. There should be at least two good robots in every match.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

If it helps any Billfred... in exchange for your post making me EXTREMELY hungry for roast meat...

I think I have properly calculated the BBQ and SAUCE for both the Philadelphia and Washington D.C. Regionals [based on the current attending teams list and awards listings from the FIRST site.]

Washington D.C.

• 58 teams registered
• 51 Total Banners
• 29 Banners since 2005
  
  BBQ=0.88
  SAUCE=0.50

Philadelphia

• 46 teams registered
• 58 Total Banners
• 31 Banners since 2005
  
  BBQ=1.26
  SAUCE=0.67

(I can send you my excel spreadsheet if needed)

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Gotta steal a corny line from a friend, but I loves me some BBQ SAUCE.

I'd say it's borderline unfair to say a west coast regional without 1717 has all of the powerhouse teams. After the machines they made in 07 and 08, I predict powerhouse status for 09.

Either way, Las Vegas is looking great. The kids on 973 have been pretty sheltered from some real tough competition (with the exception of Vegas last year, which is looking weak compared to this year) and it looks like this will open their eyes.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Why are you using RCA wins as an indicator of regional robot competitiveness? Wouldn't a more accurate reading show only regional wins? Couldn't you take it a slice deeper and show Regional Champions and Regional Finalists?

Nothing against the RCA, but the fact that a team wins that award doesn't seem to be an indicator to me that they are tougher to beat on the field.

It would be fantastic if someone (with more time than me) would run the data for all the regionals checking for Regional Champions, & Regional Finalists. I bet this data would help someone create a more accurate picture.

-John

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Wouldn't change L.A. much...
The BBQ Silver rating and SAUCE Silver (Silver = Finalist included, no CAs) for L.A. are now at the following: 48 teams, 54 total winners and finalists, 37 2005 and later. BBQS of 1.12, SAUCES of 0.77. Same teams at or near the top of the list.

Still doesn't create a balanced picture, though--older teams tend to have a higher number of banners/medals than newer ones, though at L.A. there are some newer teams that have a nice high count. The two teams that share the top medal/banner counts are two of the oldest three or four teams in the area, and certainly the two oldest continuous ones that have stayed at the same schools. The next two or three are mid-range--they've been around a few years, but maybe only about half the time or less of the older ones.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

well the teams robot is not the only aspect of competition and i think it was a good decision to include that in there because they might have a solid robot but lost the regional for other reasons

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I disagree. Just because a team has won a chairmans award does not mean that they are a powerful team out on the field. JVN is correct on this one.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I'd imagine Billfred included the Chairman's Award to get that sixth team for his every so punny acronym. PAUCE just doesn't roll off the tongue. :rolleyes:

That said, this BBQ/SAUCE is quite interesting.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

If we are looking at pure large no. of great teams at one regional, midwest and Florida comes to mind. Pure intimidation to say the least.
NJ has a lot of great teams too, led by who else, team 25. ;)
Finally, any regional that the Poofs attend on the West Coast, especially SVR, with its veteran group of teams.
We all know who leads the Canadians.

Hawaii was very tough last year, but very different this year with the lack of veteran presence that signed up.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Sorry I missed this post a while back, I am running a script right now to crunch the BBQ since 2005 numbers. Tonight I will work on expanding it to have this data instead. Id say Regional/Championship/ Division finalists and winners would count on this one.

I'll post my results and the scripts themselves here when they finish.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I have attached a plain text file that contains SAUCE for every regional and a break down of what teams contributed. This data was pulled directly from the first website. I will re-run this once teams are finalized. Please note, it is organized by the codes FIRST refers to the regionals as, ex Arizona is AZ

Enjoy.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

now thats some great SAUCE! :D

but seriously, nice work

Re: Hardest Regional
 

And according to that file, Detroit wins for toughest SAUCE. Toughest open to all teams: Las Vegas (NV), with 48 banners, 39 teams. Biggest contributors are the "usual" West Coast "suspects" + team 1266.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Here is the BBQ numbers.

I just nailed down the expression to calculate the numbers based on Finalist and Champion awards for JVN. I think I am going to wait until tomorrow to run it though. I have a hunch FIRST might be starting to get irritated at me for hitting their servers so much.

If anyone is interested in seeing the scripts feel free to PM me for details.

EDIT: I don't know if that file has the line breaks set up properly, basically if there dont appear to be line breaks tell me and I will see what I can do (Im on a Unix machine) or better yet, format the line breaks for windows. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Here it is formatted for Windows

As an aside, I highly recommend NotePad++
It is a powerful Notepad replacement that allowed me to perform this conversion in seconds.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Thanks, Andrew. The file opens with line breaks in Wordpad, but not in Notepad.

Right now, it looks like Las Vegas has the best BBQ, followed closely by two MI district events (Kettering and Cass Tech). Of course, the Midwest and Rochester Regionals are high on the list as well. It's gonna be a great season!

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Thanks, thats how I formatted the other one, but I am not at work anymore and I don't want to install ANOTHER text editor on my machine.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Vegas has 3 teams with double-digit banner counts; I don't think many others have more than one. That can't hurt...

(Vegas also has all but one of the dominant West Coast teams.)

Re: Hardest Regional
 

So come again? We saw 1 for ours. :confused:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

They are post 2005 banners

wait nvm, i see what you're saying.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Yes, the first data set is cut off before 2005. Most of your awards were won prior to that cutoff. See Billfred's post for a description of the method.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

wow We have 2 banners:confused: sweet i dint know that seening we dont have any:o ...( bum bum bum) :eek:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

According to FIRST, you were Finalists at the 2006 Ohio Regional and won the team spirit award in 2008; Banners are not actually given for either awards.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Nice Catch, if anyone else catches flaws PLEASE tell me, I have fixed this one but simply cannot check every bit of data for every team.

I will re-run this tonight and supply more correct data. Sorry.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I was actually just thinking a bit; a lot of the teams that are attending the Vegas regional do have a lot of banners, and yes they are very good; but a lot of these banners were won at west coast regionals, which in my opinion aren't as competitive as some of the east coast ones.

I'm not saying any of these powerhouse teams are bad, just that a lot of powerhouse east coast teams that are equally good will have less regional wins in comparison.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

So, what is the one for us? Finalists count too?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Man... all this talk about barbecue sauce is making me hungry...

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I respectfully disagree. Generalizing that East Coast regionals are more competitive is arguable. I think we can honestly say we've experienced both and to me, they are more or less equally tough give or take the specific ones mentioned by others in this thread. :D

Re: Hardest Regional
 

In BBQ and SAUCE (according to Billfred's specifications) only awards that you get a blue banner for count therefore Finalists do not count. I am currently testing out another regex to do Champions and Finalists instead of Chairman's winners and Champions.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I'd say over the years, on average, if you were a decently competitive team attending the LA, SVR, Arizona, and SD regionals you had a better chance of walking home with a banner than if you were at one of the tougher east coast events. Not all east coast events are better, but some generally have more powerhouse teams.

Once again, not talking away anything from 254, 330, and 968 as they are great teams (as their championship division wins, championship wins, IRI wins, and championship finalists all prove) but if more powerhouse teams attended the same west coast regionals, they probably would have less regional wins/finalists.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i have to agree with the east coast/west coast thing i mean, my team talk about how we need to go west if we want to win a regional:D but i don't like to take the easy way i rather work for my win.:cool: ( not saying that going west is less work)

Re: Hardest Regional
 

A closer look at many of the banners earned by the top banner producers from the West shows that they were earned at Championships in competition against many a fine team from the East and other areas...there are great teams throughout the FIRST community, from all areas of the map and every Regional and Championship presents great challenges and rewards regardless of the BBQSauce associated with them...let the games begin!

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I'm with you there, Adam. I might still be able to remember how many out-of-state teams have attended L.A. and maybe S.D. since 2004. (69, 188, a team from Ohio? that won L.A. in 2004, 2 MI teams won S.D. in 2007, and I think I'm missing a couple teams. I know I'm missing the AZ teams that had to come out for a regional before 2003.) From east of the Rockies, there have been 3-4 teams, plus 341 is attending S.D. this year.

Vegas and Arizona have had more long-distance teams, as have the northern California events and Hawaii. I'm not sure about the Pacific Northwest area.


What do you say, East Coast and Midwest? Are you going to start coming to SoCal, or do the SoCal teams have to play you on your home courts? :)

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I'll tell you what, you find us a sponsor to pay for us to travel out there and I will bring you a Midwest team :P Yeah 397 isn't 217 but we put up a fight against em. I graciously accept your challenge provided we can somehow pay for it. :cool:

-Proud Midwest FIRST Alumni-

Re: Hardest Regional
 

What’s so great about the highly competitive regionals?


I've always enjoyed the Sac/Davis regional precisely because it was NOT very competitive. It always had an easygoing attitude and lots of spirit, everyone always seemed to be having fun.

We like to go to Davis because lots of our alums are at UC Davis, and we get to meet new teams from the Pacific Northwest.

We wanted to go to Seattle this year because it looked like a fun regional that was getting ignored, but it was reserved for Washington teams :(

Maybe next year...

Or maybe its hella high time some of us hella NorCal people came down and hella destroyed you!!!

Re: Hardest Regional
 

well im going to speak for the midwest and say that SoCal should come out to Midwest and Boilermaker and see if they still comeout with a blue banner....:cool:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I agree, but also suggest the same could be said if the West Coast powerhouses went to East Coast regionals.
Hawaii in '08 was a great indication of teams from both ends attending, which would have been even more exciting had the Canadians and Midwest teams attended.
The example definitely needs to include 39, 60 and 987. We cant forget the former Gila Monster team (they are good)!

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I enjoy easy-going regionals as well where any team has a chance of winning. It depends on what type of competition your team is looking for though. That is why teams like 1114 go to the Midwest and average easy-going teams like 11 go to Palmetto and Chesapeake for some southern sun:cool: We loved South Carolina and Chesapeake because the level of competition is right for our specific team and when you are happy with the regional you are at, your entire team will be happy as will the atmosphere at the regional. We chose a little harder regional this year because we want to test out our team's character and abilities in Philly(which we consider a tough regional but teams of a higher caliber like 1114, 71, or 217 might not).

Choose a regional that makes your team happy and that has an enjoyable atmosphere. That is why we keep coming back to Trenton, it is tough and it just makes us happy to be home. You get a comfortable feeling at your home regional. Just choose what level of play is right for your team.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

NJ,
now that is one tough regional. sooooo many great teams, highly competitive, lots of energy.
Wayne, when are we gonna team up finally?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Nooooo, we can't let this happen now, can we;) *searches for his old thread of coast collaborations*:D

When will you guys be back in NJ?? I really miss the shell necklaces and that Aloha spirit. =)

Re: Hardest Regional
 

How quickly you forget IRI 2004, 2008, and 2005.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

To me the regional strength is based on one thing, the "JVN Fear Factor" scale. Here is how it works in my head, and why I believe I'm not out of my mind in thinking it is pretty accurate...

I can classify every team in FIRST one of two ways.

1. I'm scared of them (having not seen their robot).
2. I'm not.

Everyone makes these distinctions. There are some teams who you just find yourself in awe of. Some teams who at kickoff you find yourself wondering "I wonder what they're building?" The teams to idolize... and fear.

I can make these classifications, right now. Before the season has even started. Some teams have a history of being a solid contender. Some teams have started a shorter trend as a contender which could make me worry. Some teams are just "due".

People would argue that this is a totally biased, and quantitative way of doing things. They're absolutely right. But I've been in FIRST for a while. I've played against teams from all over the world. I've got a decent idea of what is out there...

Once I "classify" my teams, I look to see how many of the teams from category 1 are at a regional. If the regional has a lot of these teams, it is a hard regional. If the regional doesn't, it's not.

Guess which regionals rank highest on the "JVN Fear Factor" scale? Typically the ones from the Midwest give me the most "tingles". Lots of scary powerhouses there who could come away with a win.

Other Thoughts:
1. I love the ridiculousness of the East Coast vs. West Coast arguments. Yes, there are powerhouses from both of these regions. Yes, if you throw these powerhouses into a room, sometimes east comes out on top, and sometimes west comes out on top. There are a lot of factors which go into these outcomes. (For instance, lots of Midwest teams don't come to IRI at 100%, but I know that when a team like 233 or 330 makes the trip, they are going to do everything they can to be at full strength. Teams that travel to IRI typically hit a little harder than some of the locals... this is just my impression having attended for a few years. It is natural that if you're stuck in a car for 14 hours you'll be a LITTLE more committed then the team that drives 20 minutes.) Comparing these individual powerhouses together isn't going to tell you which region is stronger. Comparing how many "scary" teams are in each region will give you a better indicator of overall strength (imho).

2. I also know that on "Any Given Saturday" anything can happen. Yes, sometimes the Simbots get knocked off by a team noone has heard of, but that doesn't happen often. This can happen anywhere, it doesn't change the overall difficulty of the regional.

3. People will say "but you're not familiar with teams from <insert area here> so you can't make a general statement like this!" Look, I'm kind of a robot and strategy nut. I've been described as a "student of the game" before. I pay very close attention to the "big picture" especially at Atlanta. I've been watching Einstein intently for almost 10 years now. I don't care that your team is "feared" in Pittsburgh. If you're not scary at the (inter)national level, then you're not scary at that level, and you're not going to convince me your regional is any more difficult than it is. This system works best if you try to compare everyone at some standard. In my head, there is some unquantifiable national standard to which I measure the teams. Again, this is just the way I do things... The fact that 25 continues to kick butt in Jersey is not why I would list them as a powerhouse. Their performance on the "big scale" is what makes them scary.

Yes, there might be some REALLY great teams out there I have never heard of who never attend Championships, or who have somehow slipped under my radar. That is my loss. But really, how many of those teams do you think there are?

4. Teams vary from week to week. Some teams come out of the box very strong at early events (a great example is 121... I guess 3 weeks of practice will do that for you?). Some teams start a little rough around the edges and build over time and don't really hit full strength until Atlanta (I was going to list a few teams here, but didn't want to risk offending anyone -- you know who you are... heh). However, once those teams get rolling, they are at the top of the heap. Does this come into play in my head? Absolutely.

5. The game evolves over time. Things become more competitive as teams hit their stride. Some teams are "Week 1 Good". This is a team that comes out of the box strong, but never really improves. They've got enough firepower to win an early week regional before everyone else hits their stride and before the game fully evolves, but not enough firepower to be a true powerhouse at a later regional or at the Championship.

6. "John, your system isn't fair to younger rookie teams! They're tough competitors too!" Yes, this is absolutely correct. Some teams make a name for themselves quicker than others. Other teams will need to wait a few years before they're well known. Everyone is familiar with 1902 right? Everyone is familiar with 2056 right? In general, younger teams are less experienced and as a result "less scary" than veterans. Combine this with the fact that they're not as well known... yep, there won't be a lot of high numbers on this list. Is that necessarily wrong when you're ranking regional difficulty? Isn't it the nature of the system that more of the powerhouses are veterans? (But not necessarily vice-versa.)

7. See quote below...
Ohh well... *shrug*

Just some thoughts of how this question plays out "in my head". I thought maybe someone would be interested.

Though, I wholeheartedly agree with Cory. 1114 sets a new standard for everyone.

$.02
-John

Re: Hardest Regional
 

John; You are absolutely right.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Know that little thing about history repeating? We've hit that point in this thread.

Go check the other threads (04 and 05 both have one, and I'm sure there are others), and the result is the same - there is no definitive answer. I'm sure if you dig through those threads, I've probably made that exact same point in there.

Granted, there is one huge difference: the second coming of The Great Leveling. This, more than anything, will shake up any viewpoints, and this time around will have a greater effect than the first.

If anything, I'm looking forward to seeing everyone and having a great time.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I think West Michigan is the hardest regional...at least in the midwest...because the indiana/iilinois/michigan combo of engineering big wig companies sponsoring them. I think the midwest is one of the best places to participate in FIRST because of the Delphi and GM plus like Wildstang has Motorola there are just a lot of amazing teams...like one of my faves

Wo-Bot lol


No but seriously I think west mich. takes it

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Historically that may have been true. But this year West Michigan is Michigan only so no 71, or 111 or 45 or any other outside Michigan teams.

Jessica makes a good point, the new control system will shake things up, a lot. Also, the economy's tanking will have a negative effect on all of us.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Your not very competitive regional may very well have been the most competitive regional in 2005. Championship Champion 330 allied with Championship finalist 56 and lost in the semis. Championship Finalist 254 lost in the finals. Championship division winners 245 and 766 were the regional champions. That's 5 teams from Einstein that were there.

Here's one such thread about how to judge the strength of a regional: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=37801

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i know but to be honest (i know i'm going to get a lot of shunning for this) but IRI is an off season event and it doesn't count also, most people have rookie drivers at IRI so like i said SoCal bring your real drive team to a real competition and lets see what happeneds:cool:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I wouldn't be so sure that most teams have rookie drivers at IRI. The dominating teams you are referring to usually have their seasoned drivers because they play to win (IIRC). Because it is after all, where the Egos Go to Play. IRI is hell compared to the Championships.

Anyone want to correct me on this? (from one of the dominating teams I mean).

Re: Hardest Regional
 

IRI is tougher than the Championships. Think I'll go take a look at the BBQ/SAUCE for IRI for last year. I'm using the Winner/Finalist numbers.

72 teams, 234 wins/finalists since 2005, 358 total wins/finalists. Now, that's something like: BBQS 4.97, SAUCES 3.25.

That's probably higher than any regional. I won't go so far as to say that it's higher than the Championship, but it's probably pretty close.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i knew id get flak for this but i know a few team that have rookie driver ( we had a rookie driver) :D not verry smart but i hope i get to drive at IRI next year and yes i agree IRI is tougher but i dont like that fact that most people dont scout and just go but what have you done...:(

Re: Hardest Regional
 

IRI is THE PLACE for elite teams to go. You have to be a top robot to be on an IRI alliance. It is NOT like one of those regionals in which there's that one team that deserves to be on an alliance because they've had a good showing at the event. You need to have a robot that has been dominating all season and a team with a big reputation. Refer to all of this year's IRI alliances because just by looking at the teams you see a list of elites (with 1 or 2 exceptions). There is no room on those alliances for a team that did "pretty well" comparatively in their season. They DO scout, but they scout to look for a level of teams beyond the norm. Most at IRI just don't fit the mold.

Notice how on each alliance, each robot is one of those top performers who could probably carry an alliance by themselves to victory at most regionals. But after all, this is not a regional.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

1319 has won the Boilermaker, Peachtree, and Palmetto regionals, as well as the Galileo division. So I can only speak on those. They all had thier differences that made them harder and easier in some respects. However I think the determining factor in deciding if the regional is the hardest is the sheer number of teams in attendance. Scouting comes more into play and your odds of winning get less. Sure every regional has it's own powerhouse teams but every once in a while a rookie team or a team that is finally coming into thier own can surprise you. The only way to identify them is scouting efforts.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i see... ok that just mean this year we have to have a good showing huh:D

Re: Hardest Regional
 

The number of teams attending is definetely a factor, because like Zflash mentioned chancesof winning are reduced. However, there are definetely those teams that have consistently brought good robots.
the one example I can refer to, would be the New Jersey regional, where over the last 3 years (or 4) 25, and 103 have been allied and have won the regional. To their credit they have amazing mentors and great students who come up with innovative robots every year and that definetely counts towards making a team much harder to defeat, hence making a regional that these types of teams attend harder.
I'm sure if we were to play with numbers and determine the statistics, that these veteran "powerhouse/dominating" teams holds the majority of alliance spots at regionals.

Although, the great thing about FIRST is the exchange of information, which makes it possible for those few rookies that become top 10 at the first regional they attend.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

ok so what is the BBQ/Sauce of boilermaker?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Being invited to IRI is correlated to some degree, with teams that attend championships. However, in terms of robot performance alone, being invited to IRI is a greater honor than Championships as invitations are only sent to those that had a great/good showing and a reputation for being successful.
The list says it all year after year.
Perhaps the "hardest" "regional" of all is IRI.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i agree, i especially like the rules at IRI since they fix the rules that everyone hates like the crossing the line rule:mad: but yea luckly our team has been evited every year since our rookie year:cool:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Midwest is as intense as ever.
Las Vegas looks really good this year.
Washington DC is very good looking 1st year regional.


I'm really looking forward to Wisconsin this year as well.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i see DC is a 1st regional that explains why a lot of veteran teams signed up. being the first ever champs sounds pretty sweeeeeeet :cool:

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to favor any regional over another, but I think that the regionals which don't have particularly DOMINANT teams are the harder ones.

It's at these regionals where things are unexpected. One team may do better than the other one year, and in another year, a totally unknown team comes and dominates. I think these regionals are harder than all o' the others, cause no one's really sure what to expect.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

i agree if you have power house team you kinda expect them to win but a place where everyone is in the same boat its much more intense *Cough* Boilermaker *Cough*

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Especially when that boat is in Indiana.

When I look at the BMR team list, I see, as JVN says, a bunch of teams that are "due" this year. I think this event will be the coming-out party for a couple of 'dormant' teams. Early prediction: The BMR champs will include 1501 and (at least) one of the PurdueFIRST teams.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

if i see the team list i think wildstang is there so why didn't you pick the defending champs?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

not all....dont forget 39

Re: Hardest Regional
 

I was just skimming the BBQ and SAUCE data you posted, and it does not seem to be correct.

For example, in the spreadsheets posted earlier... the Cheesy Poofs (FRC:254) have a Silver SAUCE of 9 and a BBQ of 22.

Looking solely at Champion and Finalist placings (no Chairman's) on the FIRST listing has them at a Silver SAUCE of 11 and BBQ of 23.

The three other teams I looked at also seem to be off.

Did I miss something somewhere?

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Yea, there was a bug found in that data. I am working on fixing all the bugs and will be sending a link to a page that will allow you to look up based on multiple criteria so you can use any method you want and have it spit out data. Right now I have it working if you want to write your own regular expressions but would like to allow you to just select check boxes. When it is done I will post a link here.

Re: Hardest Regional
 

Ok, so I'm not going crazy more than normal... thank goodness.