Re: Game Hint #1
 

No, we will not be playing on a surface similar to the moon, but Dave has setup a shuttle service to the moon for all the teams to go play on the ACTUAL MOON!.

Thanks Dave, I'm excited about visiting the moon. I've never been before!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Oooops, my bad. It's the IT dept. at my work filtering some web sites.

Rock On!!!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Given NASA's interest in lunar exploration, the "rough" terrain on the FTC playing field this year, I think this might be one of the better ideas to date...

Jason

Re: Game Hint #1
 

There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.


****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.



so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

If so, best check the game design threads.

Something tells me that this is not going to be a full water game, though a water-like substance may be involved. I also think that the gamepiece will not be a real fish.

Greg, the last thing we need is muddier (or darker) water.


Or is the GDC just teasing us? I choose the last one.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

password = red_herring

Re: Game Hint #1
 

just analyzing what other people have said, just an unload of thoughts; (the beginning of many ;) )

This makes me think of how in the "Aim High" game there had to be a backbot that could only stay in one portion of the field during the game. It may be possible that there could again be several parts to the match, or a certain period in time where bots can only stay in a certain area.

Speed could be essential, or at least quick moving, seeing that a synonym for nimble is agile, my guess is that there will some sort of signal that robotics will need to respond to quickly, could be connected to the autonomous or hybrid mode, or if it's as complicated as it could be it could be additional signals throughout the game.

As for the whole "moonfish" nickname there's so much that could be connected in reference of the moon part of the name I'm not going to get into detail about that. not today. lol

If only this game hint came out after I had finals... haha :rolleyes:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

First could come up with a better clue for the word morphology than a picture of a fish...

You not going to solve this clue, or any other clue by finding hidden text at extreme contrast levels or breaking down color channels.

There's a reason for this fish. The best thing I could recommend would be to start finding meaningful anagrams of Lampris guttatus.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

That's funny.....

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Perhaps the MOON fish is a vague reference to Mike Singletary and his locker room antics. Robots with pants???

:0)

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Did anyone think this could be in relation to the band PHISH getting back together for the first time since 2004?

That could mean we could be doing a FIRST frenzy style game with elements from the past few years all combined. I hope that is it, as I would love a multidimensional game.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

well this seems like a waste of time, has anyone actually ever gotten a clue right before and gave them an advantage?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

It most certainly is a waste of time, but it would take a lot more than one post by stop this train now.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Kinda, but it didn't help.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Yep. Back around 2006, Dave's ramblings gave a lot of hints-- but that didn't help. Same with the official hint-- and only one portion was really solved correctly. You wouldn't remember who got it right, now, would you?:p


This hint will be painfully obvious in hindsight. They all are.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I believe once, but so close to the Kick-Off that it didn't matter anyway.

Besides, this is FIRST. We thrive on following seemingly-nonexistent leads. :D This is fun for us. And as stated earlier, nothing will stop us from speculating. Is this a waste of time? Yeah. Do I have anything better to do than look too deep into a picture to find a hint? No, not really. :p

It's all in good fun.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

"Gap Stairs Tumult." They did warn against designing before the season...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I believe that a change in field is in order. And NO, not water. Something slippery perhaps or on the other hand, something squishy and gummy. Scales indicate scaling objects larger than we are used to. That's all I'm saying for this "hint." Ha.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I think there will be other hints that come along as well. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

The GDC seems to let us run the line out as far as we can go, exasperating ourselves and everyone else. Then they throw out another hint and we start again. Chumming, right Libby? :D

If you stay within the framework of 'entertaining', the lure isn't as attractive, easing the tug of the hook as it sets.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

07 someone was able to take the picture and figure out that the game piece was an inner tube. I don't remember if that proved it or if everyone continued guessing, the thread was way too long in the end to bother reading all the way through.
In most cases even if you did figure out the hint you wouldn't have any proof that you were correct so it wouldn't make a difference. :P

Re: Game Hint #1
 

waste of time? Blasphemy!


BTW this is a appears to be a male of the species

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Put it in the box... http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ight=mailboxes

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Interesting goodies start halfway down the following Webster's page on Lampris Guttatus:
http://www.websters-dictionary-onlin...mpris+Guttatus

A few highlights:

Pig Latin = amprislay uttatusgay.

Words within the letters "a-a-g-i-l-m-p-r-s-s-t-t-t-u-u"
-3 letters: gutturalisms.
-4 letters: gutturalism, pragmatists.
-5 letters: marsupials, mutualists, pragmatist, sugarplums.

Hexadecimal = 4C 61 6D 70 72 69 73 47 75 74 74 61 74 75 73

Binary = 01001100 01100001 01101101 01110000 01110010 01101001 01110011 00100000 01000111 01110101 01110100 01110100 01100001 01110100 01110101 01110011

HTML = &#76 &#97 &#109 &#112 &#114 &#105 &#115 &#32 &#71 &#117 &#116 &#116 &#97 &#116 &#117 &#115

ISO 10646 = 004C 0061 006D 0070 0072 0069 0073 0047 0075 0074 0074 0061 0074 0075 0073



Additionally, an online anagram finder @ wordsmith.org found exactly 66667 possible anagrams!
Link for first 1000 only:
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram...uttatus&t=1000
Link for all: (Beware, it takes a long time to load)
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Lampris+Guttatus&language=engl ish&t=0&d=&include=&exclude=&n=&m=&source=adv&a=n& l=n&q=n&k=1

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I don't have the stamina right now to read the whole thread, so just a question -- did someone also suggest that the name "moonfish" and rounded shape of the fish might suggest a disk-shaped game component? Robot Ultimate Frisbee, anyone?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

going with the whole morphology thing, if it is applicable in so many areas, maybe there will be multiple areas for the robots to do different things?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Flying fish?

1902, want to jump on in here?

Flying fish... geez.

Edit: hey, they do flap their way through the water...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

3, 4, 5 ... anyone?

how about a triangle? or to be more specific a right triangle.

just thought i would throw that into the mix

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I'm sitting here drinking eggnog, listening to Christmas carols, watching a roaring fire, mulling over game hints. The holidays are here!

Well, its too obvious that it would be a game hint, unless they want us to think its too obvious, we're being toyed with.

Acording to Wikipedia's in pop culture "On one episode of the Food Network show Iron Chef America, opah was chosen as the secret ingredient. A clip from this battle provided a memorable moment when Iron Chef Mario Batali jokingly danced with a whole opah en route to his station in the beginning of the program.

Currently being used as the first game hint of the 2009 FIRST Robotics Competition."

Maybe our robots have to cook.

Lampris guttatus . Lampris, greek for brilliant or clear, guttatus, latin for spotted or speckled. a contradiction?

Another anagram is Alarmist Gust Put. its a golf windmill.

well, thats my two cents for now.

p.s. yes, its a waste of time, but i'd rather waste time on this than on anything else.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Two things to add that may/may not be helpful.

This anagram generator is backed by a dictionary, so it might be easier to sort through the possibilities:
It seems that they searched for moonfish instead of Opah. Is there any deeper meaning? :p

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Everyone is reading way too much into this. The game piece is clearly a bunch of Opahs this year. Problem solved, case closed. Start designing your fish handling robots now.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

hey fish are really slimy and hard to grip maby the game peice is 2.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Or maybe the field is slippery, ha.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I think that the ideas of a lunar landscape are most likely

perhaps its a game where we have to "fish" for mechanical fish. like this:

http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/...go-fishing.jpg

Re: Game Hint #1
 

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...ry.php?id=1072

Did anyone else notice the word "TUBE" in the order section? Maybe carrying tubes again, or going through them like tunnels.

Also with the scanned idea. since one fish is in one direction and the shadow is in the other maybe a reversal go direction?


I liked the moon idea with the uneven playing field. Or a round playing field.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I rarely venture wild guesses, but you may have a point there.

The fact that this is the exact photo that comes up with a moonfish google search is interesting.

So Dave, perhaps playing off the water game and the red herring, included "fish" in the hint for fun. He included moon because this game has a circular illuminated object over the field that will be detected by the new camera.

Have they ever included a camera in the KOP when it was not needed? That camera isn't free - I would wager they wouldn't provide it unless it was going to be used.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

/This

Re: Game Hint #1
 

OPAH a model for optimal design of multipurpose small hydropower plants. It is a new Engineering Software.:) :) :) So stop your gibberish and look it up!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...96d5f5a3b3b64f

Re: Game Hint #1
 

An opah is large, round, and flat. Discs, anyone?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Moonfish = ohms info

Robot Resistance!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary

Opah: A large oceanic fish (Lampris quttatus), inhabiting the Atlantic Ocean. It is remarkable for its brilliant colors, which are red, green, and blue, with tints of purple and gold, covered with round silvery spots. Called also king of the herrings.

so, moon, fish, new software, anagrams....

or just the king of red herrings.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

on wikipedia they said that the fish highest point lattuded was 34 degrees. around that latitude is Rosewell georgia which is right next to atlanta. theidore roosevelts mother was born in that city. are we gunna use teddy bears?:ahh:
also the genus name for the opah fish comes from the latin for brilliant/ clear. any ideas?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

anagrams for lampris guttatus

airmass glut putt
august limp start
gas multistartup
grampa slits tutu
guilt ramp status
guitar must splat
spatial gum trust
pastrami gut lust

:D :D :D

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Nice find is very nice. So basically, this could mean that this is just one king-of-a-herring.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Or we could have to climb a 34 degree ramp... O.o

Re: Game Hint #1
 

oh no not again

Re: Game Hint #1
 

i'm going with "pastrami gut lust"

but it does have ramp in the list too...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

As stated here - http://www.australianseafoodexports....rderonline.htm

Lampris guttatus weights between 30-50kgs. 50kgs -> 110lbs, NEW WEIGHT LIMIT?? :yikes:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Unless it was somebody here(traceroute isn't being that cooperative...), has anyone considered where the wikipedia change came from? (IP: 208.65.90.13)

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I'm betting that the game will be called:


Shoot for the Moon

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Okay... I zoomed out to try to clear some words out. Here's what I think I can make up:

body, covered, deeply forked, dorsal fin, bellied

I Googled all of those together, but couldn't find any exact matches. Of course a lot about fish (dorsal fin).

Re: Game Hint #1
 

You know, I think that we are just over analyzing this hint. If I remember correctly, once we find out the game, we have to reanalyze the hint again in order to find out what it meant, which usually ends up being a random fact of the game. (i.e. the GPS coordinates last year)

Re: Game Hint #1
 

ya we probly are. What were the GPS coordinates for last year anyway?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

In the background of the picture in the text i saw the word body and someone earlier said something about opah dealing with the number 4
This might mean that there needs to be a body with four somethings attached to it and these four "components" to pick something up

Re: Game Hint #1
 

It pointed to a tortoise and hare statue - a race.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I believe it was someone here. I went to http://www.ip-adress.com/ip_tracer/ and searched up 208.65.90.13, and it says:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

wow they put to much time into these clues

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Moonfish

Round game piece, it may move on it's own (wriggle like a fish), and there will be light involved.

-Vivek

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Actually, i think we do. lol.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

the 34 degrees seems to be a consistant thing.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

yes, and the 2007 game hint was a picture directly from the game.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Think of it this way: The more we analyze it now, the closer we could be to actually knowing what it meant later. As in, we may have guessed it and won't know until after Kick-Off...

Good lawd, I hope not.....

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The sites, and for that matter also the fish, are Australian. Perhaps there's a connection to "down under"... maybe the number of spots (like the dots on the fish) on the bottom of a game piece will tell us how many points it can score.


Maybe the deep water fish means we aren't allowed to touch the floor.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Not being allowed to touch the floor? I don't think the GDC would be that cruel...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

"It is currently being used as the first game hint for the 2009 FIRST Robotics Competition season"

this was added to the Opah page on wikipedia at 2:07, while this thread was started at 3:13. when was the hint posted


not that this is at all relevant, I'm sure.

and i could be making a mistake on the times, as well.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I think that the many, small dots on the fish could represent many, small gamepieces. I think that one main advantage of the new control system, without the game being fully reliant on it, would be the camera's ability to give driver feedback on picking up very small objects.

I think that the "deep fork," and the tight crevices on the fish's fins may represent tight spaces that need to be manuvered through, possibly in a way that a normal chassis cannot handle.

The latitude thing seems a bit to obscure, even for the GDC.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

How did you manage this? You are quite sneaky. Good thing you're on our side. HAHA

Re: Game Hint #1
 

if only we could find the book this came form.....

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Ill give it about two to three days before someone finds it.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

ya maby the whole clue is just pointing in the dircection of the book and the fish has nothing to do with it.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Agreed. King of the Red Herrings.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

A Roomba!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Here is something that I noticed:

The fish is pointing toward the left.
The left signifies the Democratic Party.
So when we get to the competition, all the good robots' mechanisms will be taken off and evenly distributed among all the robots without mechanisms.

Only joking...I love these threads.
:D

Re: Game Hint #1
 

hahaha socialism joke.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

funny, but almost not funny.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The fish are not specific to Australia. We catch them here in Los Angeles AT 34 deg. N. Lat.

This years kit of parts has a camera and the user station has the ability to attach a display for real time video. I think the game will require a gripper arm with camera to SCALE a wall and pick up 1 of FOUR COLOR Discs. Andy Mark is also now making larger wheels which would help cross a surface like the MOON(fish).

Re: Game Hint #1
 

You all (well most of you) have a new control system to play with... Go learn the in's and out's of it... trust me learning the control system will help you a lot more come January 3rd then this 'hint' will. The control system is more fun and just as frustrating a use of your time... patience... we will all know the game soon enough.... breath ....

Re: Game Hint #1
 

i got it the field will smell like fish. yes, everyone smell it. Smell it!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I like the ideas that we have to morph or adapt the robot to ride the field...i mean moonfish=lunar like crater surface...and if the image does refer to lunar position, during this week it was supposed to align with venus and jupiter-again planet and space; GDC is ruining my sleep-but well worth it
Also, i think our robot needs to be agile like the fish to maneuver the field!
FTC for now ;)

Edit: OPAH: Hydropower?-things relating to a water game need to stop

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I have the feeling that analyzing the anagrams of Lampris Guttatus is probably going way overboard. Last year, they gave us a set of words that made an anagram, not a picture. This fish has a multitude of names, and we wouldn't know which one to use in an effort to figure it out.

I love the idea of a playing field like the moon...the only problem I can see with it is that it would be impossible for teams to practice in their own workspaces, unless FIRST decided to provide us with a replica of the playing field in our kits...:ahh:

Did anyone else notice this on Wikipedia?
Red. Blue. White. FIRST colors. The camera recognizes triangles, squares, and circles, at least. Can it recognize colors as well? (all I know about the capabilities of the camera is what I can see from the pictures that our programmers have put up from the benchtesting...).

Re: Game Hint #1
 

So, i've been working on the hint for the past couple hours, and here's what i've got:

-i did a simple substitution decode with the scientific name of the fish, and got 12, 1, 13, 16, 18, 9, 19 – 7, 21, 20, 20, 1, 20, 21, 19.

-Tried googling these, didn't get anything. So, i added the two sets together, and got 88, 129.

-Googled this, and came accross this doc:
http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/lettersno...l88/88-129.pdf

-Finally, took the accronym of the main subject of the doc. and got this:
S.A.W.S.

I'm thinking the game this year will be some sort of construction game, where the pieces are intertwinable, and we have to put them together. This goes with the morphology therory as the field will be changing drasticly throughout the match. I haven't come up with a reason for the text in the background, but oh wells.

Maybe this will create some branches in your brain.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Don't forget Dave's mighty morphin' signatures.

"To the five, you keep me alive"
"To the six, you give me my fix"
"To the three, thank you from me"

Re: Game Hint #1
 

OMG, if I view your signature one more time, Karibou, I'm going to go mad!!! :p

I keep winning until I see your posts.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Sometimes a fish is just a fish.

Or possibly the game pieces are fish.

Or this is the King of Red Herrings

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Ok, speaking of going mad..
Has anyone noticed and/or pointed out the lines in the belly that look like a right angle/maybe a square? Like pencil lines?

*sigh*

I can see it on the original hint and I also see it in this post.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Don't rain on our parade :D

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Perhaps it simply has to do with the fish itself? Gameplay might involve Fishing, casting a line, reeling something in etc.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I knew this old Ranger 7 film would come in handy for something....

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I believe that at one point, Dave claimed to have grown up down under. That's the connection.

I noticed that Aidan was around earlier. I'm just wondering how hard the GDC is laughing their heads off right about now...

...they'll be laughing even harder by the end of the week.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLE2So5NIY0

^^my reply
you tube cut me of i was was about to say slippery-er

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I totally agree with the thoughts that the watermark is not a part of the hint. I feel that the only part of the hint here is its name and/or the fish itself.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Maybe "Red Herring" is the hint. Maybe we will have to fake out our opponents to succeed in the game.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I think the bit about "vertical migrations from the deep up the slopes of seamounts" and the four different colors of flesh are most significant. I'm predicting a game where the 'bots have to climb steep slopes that are subject to change (morphology) and have to give something to fellow alliance members (fishermen giving it away).

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Just for fun...a quick rearrangement of the anagrams reveals:

august(majestic as in big) ramps tilts (not grammatical)...been there before and much of the past does repeat over the years... and august ramp stilts...then again, if you are real creative, and read between the letters one can read, "its enough to drive one crazy"...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The GDC obviously did a Google images search for "moonfish" and took the first image that showed up. This must have been on purpose. The question is why?

A quick Google search for "moon fish" turns up this: http://www.moonfishocean.com/ right away. Apparently "moon, fish, ocean" is the new zen version of "rock, paper, scissors". :ahh:

From the website:

"Zen Masters use the game as a test of a disciple’s reflexes and non-attachment to outcomes. The Master holds a pebble in his palm. The pebble remains hidden when the Master plays “Moon” or “Fish.” It is revealed only when the Master plays “Ocean.” If the disciple can snatch the pebble quickly enough, he automatically wins the round."

Sounds like we will be somehow playing "rock, paper, scissors" with robots and trying to steal something from the opposing alliance. Still 3v3. One "master" robot holds/guards a special game piece while the other 2 "disciple robots" try to steal the game piece from the opposing alliance for major bonus points. Maybe like 2006 with offensive and defensive periods of 2v3 or something.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I say just rub some lemon on the picture of the fish and see what pops out.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I agree that the text is unimportant. One set of words I can make out is "deeply forked caudal" which merely refers to a feature of the fish, and is most likely a description on the next page that the scanner accidentally caught. Looking at data on the fish, it looks like it's not good at all at dealing with changes in its environment, and is very sensitive. This could be another global warming/impact lesson. Either that or we do, in fact, get to build 6 foot, 500 lb. robots.

And there's no way to clean up the text anymore than has already been done. Anyone tried running it through some steganography programs? It's unlikely it contains any hidden data as it's only 90 kilobytes, but it might be worth a try. The low quality and graininess lends itself to an opportunity for a seamless steganograph. My tests show it's a possible candidate for the jphide protocol with a 2.0 sensitivity scan. I'm attempting to confirm, but someone else with more advanced tools may be more successful.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

lol good old game hints. as far as im concerned, it's going to be a rock paper scissors type deal. something more like the 2007 game then the 2008. something so simple like tic tac toe became the the massive intertube rack. they are going to take a really simple concept and make it into a massive game! im so excited!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

We are going fishing...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

the card game go fish, but in robot form.