Re: Game Hint #1
 

Game involving triangles...look at the fins. Its pointless to sit here unless you have hours of time to analyze these "hints"

Haha, wish I had time. Good luck everyone!:)

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Well, since the robots can communicate with each other via wifi, i guess there will be 6 stationary robots on the field, and they can play go fish wirelessly!

how exciting!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Daves signuture

Re: Game Hint #1
 

This is just my version of a FIRST opah, aka Moonfish.



Sorry, I was getting a little bored. :yikes:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Everybody's doin' the fish! Yeah, yeah, yeah!
(In case you are wondering, the song in the above video is Trendy by Reel Big Fish).

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I almost bashed my head into my desk when I saw the fish knowing that someone would bring up that ridiculous water game joke.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

For what it is worth the original image seems to be copyrighted by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industial Research Organisation (CSIRO) of Australia. Go to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearc...pcode=37268001 and click the little “image info” link under our new favorite photo at the top of the page. It should take you to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearc...7268001a-t.jpg with the copyright info.

The photo is available for purchase in high resolution here: http://www.frdc.com.au/shop/merchant...ore_Code=photo if say you wanted to publish it in a book as an illustration.

The photo FIRST is using as Clue #1 seems to come from a simple Google Images search for “moonfish” which in turn originated here (as previously noted in this thread): http://www.australianseafoodexports..../moonfish1.jpg which is linked to from this parent webpage: http://www.australianseafoodexports....rderonline.htm

The image used on www.australianseafoodexports.com has the reverse text in the background as does the FIRST Clue #1 image. The GDC did not covertly plant any hidden messages in the reverse text. They have better things to do with their time. More likely the Australian seafood export company scanned a photo of a “moonfish” they had handy in some book and the text on the backside of the page (probably about some entirely different and non-related fish) came through on the scan. My bet is this is the book: http://www.publish.csiro.au/?nid=18&pid=2181 but it may be this one also: http://www.publish.csiro.au/?nid=18&pid=3551. I don’t have a copy of either book myself but may can find one at the office when I get back next week. If anyone lives near a university with a marine research program they might want to check the university library and see what they can find.

Given that last year the clue was in fact a latitude and longitude coordinate it might also be worth considering the CAAB Taxon Code for Lampris guttatus is 37 268001 which could easily be construed as a latitude in North America. If a Clue # 2 comes along it might be a reference to a longitude. I doubt that the GDC would give us a lat/lon 2 years in a row but you never know.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

thats what they want you to think.:p

Re: Game Hint #1
 

No, I think that we will have to do a game that involves a net of some sort to catch things

OR

We are going to have to have one or two robots go after a high value target, while the others lend support or something along those lines

as far as the GPS theory... If the problem DOES have to do with fishing or marine, they might refer to LORAN-C TD coordinates since more fisherman and navigators use it over GPS due to accuracy...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

the water mark is the dicstionary defonition for RED HARRING:ahh:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

the clue could have to do with the fact that fish have scales, and the robots could have to scale something...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The actual thing the coordinate clue pointed to last year was the start/finish line of the Boston Marathon, & not the Tortoise & The Hare. Technically both related to the game (sort of), but the start/finish line was the focus of the clue.

Good thing they are coming around at the end of January to CT... I'll have to ask them if they know something!!! :rolleyes: :p

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Don't you guys see it? it's totally easy *Goes into National Treasure mode*

What we have in the picture is a moonfish. The moonfish is on a stamp in Madeira.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...of_Madeira.svg

Now, they've just shown us the basic outline of the field. It's obviously a 4-team game with everyone starting at one end of the cross trying to score something in the middle or grab a game piece from the middle.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Someone said earlier that it might be to hard for teams to do a practice field like the moon. Do you remember last years center wall base plates? Teams where getting stuck on them. Now take 2' x 2' half inch plywood sheets and put them under your carpet in random locations. Watch the bots bounce along.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Last year we got a lat/long/bearing as a clue. We knew it was a lat/long, and even had it down to the right place in Boston. Yet still, no one figured out that the hint meant the tortoise and hare statues in that reside in Copley Square at the given bearing when standing at the main statue in the Square. The obvious is so hard to see sometimes...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I think it will be quite obvious that FIRST will want to show off their new controls system this year. So how can what we've come up with so far tie into the cRIO? I have no idea. I'm assuming we will be using a camera system this year, but I think that the 28X16 (or whatever it is) carpeted field has worked for many years so well, that they will stick with it, at least for the inaugural year of the cRIO.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

This has been a beautiful hint. Just beautiful.

Has there ever been a hint given with built-in Gracious Professionalism as part of its traditions/history?

The reference that was made to the Zen game equivalent of Rock, Paper, Scissors by DeepWater is another beauty, even if it doesn't amount to anything. It is a neat link to look at and think about.

Now the stamp in Madeira find that Michael just showed us. It's just all so cool.

Great hint, GDC and FIRST!

I think there were some great guesses at the hints in the past 3 years that I can remember. Some nailed the hints, some circled them and got 'this close'. That's what makes it fun when the game is revealed. But, the GP aspect of this one blows me out of the water. And, speaking of water - we are playing a water game, if you think about it - guessing the meaning of this fish.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I LOVE IT. It gives the teams that like to make super defensive robots something to defend, the robots that make super pushing robots something to push on (the defenders) and the super delicate finesse robots something to reach for. The Elimination rounds for this type of game play would be FANTASTIC.

There could also be some poor pairings during the qualification rounds, but we see that now anyway.

~Jake

Re: Game Hint #1
 

this kind of fish does not travel in a group, but it is a loner, mabey there wont be teams this year

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Also, refering to thw Wiki article about Madeira, I found this:
"Madeira Island is the largest island of the group with an area of 741 km², a length of 30 geographical miles (57 km), a breadth of 13 miles (22 km) at its widest point, and a coastline of 80 to 90 miles. Its longer axis lies east and west, along which lies a mountain chain with a mean altitude of 4,000 feet (1,220 m), considered the backbone of the island from which many deep ravines radiate outward to the coast. Its most famous sea cliff, the Cabo Girão, is the world's second highest. The highest point on the island is Pico Ruivo, at 1,862 meters (6,107 ft)."

I'm sticking with the sloping playing field theory.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

More wikipedia fun!

Concerning Dave's signatures...

The six:
The five:
The four:
Now, can anyone else relate 'the three' to arts and music?
And how does this fit in with fish?
I really have no idea...

2009 Game Hint #1
 

I just received the 1st FIRST Game Hint...
What do you think this means?

http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=11310

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Anagrams for Lampris Guttatus of the top of my head:

I Must Lag Startup
A Gut Ramp Tilts Us


Can't wait to see the gut ramp...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Maybe a tilting ramp, like a teeter totter, in the gut, the middle, of the field?



Now on a different note. This Moonfish looks like a round, flat disk to me. Wouldn't it be cool to play Frisbee with robots??!!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Which likely means it came from a book, and that's the text on the reverse page. (In other words, likely not a part of the clue.) :(

Re: Game Hint #1
 

2001 Deja vu??
http://www.team537.com/history.php?year=2001

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Yep. That is what I was thinking.
Note. Look at my Rookie Year. I wasn't around then, but the challenge of that Teeter-Totter has always intrigued me ever since I read about it.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Yep! That'll work!:cool:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

after a lil time in gimp, the test is backwards and there is another image of a shrak behind the fish, thus i believe that this is a scanned imaged from a book

Re: Game Hint #1
 

What about a moon-shaped hovering disk as a game piece?

http://www.estesrockets.com/rockets.php?pid=008304

Re: Game Hint #1
 

what about somthing like fishing rod?
when we soppuse to catch somthing with hoocks

Re: Game Hint #1
 

You might have gotten that information faster if you had spent the time reading the thread instead of playing with the Gimp. :) I have the impression that what's on the other page is a channel catfish rather than a shark, but I don't think it's relevant.

(And I might have understood you faster if you typed more slowly and paid closer attention to spelling, but I'll attribute the test/text and shrak/shark to your being excited about the hint.)

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Ah heck, I was thinking the shrak was a distant cousin to the shrek. I can't imagine having to reel in a shrek um, shrak.

Nevermind.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

no not "gut"
the word is "tug"

A Ramp Tilt Tugs Us

Re: Game Hint #1
 

What if it is a simple as moon + fish.

Moonbuggy--collecting rocks/transporting things around (look at FLL robots transporting items for survival of people on mars)

Fish---fish have a lateral line which is a series of nervous sensors which pick up vibration in the water for protection or finding food. So robots "sense" things like lights, etc.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

in regards to fish anatomy and morphology---they do have swim bladders. the playing pieces could be some type of "balloon"

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Really? Are you sure?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The fish is the Opah alson known as the Spotted Moonfish. Since water and electricity don't get along I suspect something dealing with the moon.:yikes:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

the fish wasnt scanned out off a book. i found the same picture here: http://www.wildoceanseafoods.com/Haw...y6sQjuEb8f0t0=
its the same picture except it looks like first sharpened theirs and made it pixelly

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I'm sorry to be a jerk but please read the thread instead of reposting information. I understand your excitement but this thread is growing quickly enough as is.

And I don't mean to pick on you, just grabbed one of the responses I saw that fit the criteria, this comment applies to everyone in every thread, Please read the thread before posting.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

You can also search the thread, using the tools at the top.

During the initial rush, most of this info has been posted at least three times already.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

1) Game hints usually revolve around a "game piece" or a "game objective".
2) Game hits usually are obscure, yet their representation to the game piece or objective is very much apparent once the entire game is revealed and more consideration can be input.
3) A Series of game hints never seem to reach a similar conclusion, but seperate parts of the whole FIRST game.
4) Game Hints are never solved until after the revealing of the game.
5) Game hints are what many will call "The Return to Chief Delphi", when many of the robotics fans return from their summer slumber, log back onto the site and prepare for the next season.


Thats all this hint is telling me at the moment.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

OKay- so I searched out Opah and found a Honolulu fish market

so what if the game has us running around the field picking up rubber fish and tossing them into a basket of some sort. Every so often you come across a Red Herring worth bonus points. If you can catch the biggest fish- the Opah. You get the super bonus. Since the Opah has little dots in a pattern you need to have the camera recognize the pattern...

Or else we all just get slimy?


Whats with all the fish each year and this GDC!!!!

of course the color pattern of this poorly known ocean fish may just appeal to the hint people?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

It could be a hint referring to some type of aquatic life off the cost of Australia, not necessarily the fish itself. Australia is the only place to have box jellyfish, and box jellyfish are the only jelly fish with the ability to see and move toward their food. Since we are getting cameras this year, the competition could have something to do with finding and locating something using the camera.

or

Opah is a Greek word meaning celebration or challenge. Greeks invented the Olympics which is both a celebration and challenges. Based on the fact that the first Lego league has a series of events (like a decathlon) that you can choose from, and because of time issues, I feel that the competition could be a heptathlon. That and this fish looks like a discus.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

If you play the hint backwards it says "paul is dead"

or not

Re: Game Hint #1
 

isn't there some greek thing called opah... don't know how greek thing is spelled...

math teacher brought this to my attention...

thinks it means cheers, or salut, or something...


-Z

Re: Game Hint #1
 

well as the pic is scanned, presumibly out of a book, perhaps it has something to do with camera recognition? likely shapes -> disks

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Don't know if anyone has any avid fishermen around but one of our mentors has mentioned that this is a form of "ribbon fish"...any thoughts?...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

while many are dismissing the text and shark in the background, the moonfish being a loner and not traveling in schools could indicate a no team free for all, or the shark in the background could indicate some sort of predator prey situation, or it could indicate a 6v0 situation as fish are friends not food. ;)

Re: Game Hint #1
 

also, did anyone notice that opah is used ALOT in crossword puzzles???

look at the puzzle clues...

-Z

Re: Game Hint #1
 

shouldnt all of you be in class right now???

:D

Re: Game Hint #1
 

OK I read about 12 pages of this thread and I see no reference to this. As I go thru google images for 'opah' I am finding french maps where sections have OPAH in front of the french words


I do not know what they mean in this context but maybe someone else does?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

It's obvious. Because the "moon" has lesser gravity, and the fish picture was seen on an Australian seafood website, it's an anti-gravity game. After all, there is less gravity on the moon, and gravity in Australia must be opposite of the U.S. since it's on the opposite side of the planet. I hear autonomous is a time-travel challenge.

In all seriousness, what was the purpose of the fish kite for last year's clue? Is it becoming some sick taunting from FIRST: "What kind of fish do we send them this time?"

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Yes I am, the Opah is a DEEP water fish caught in the Pacific with tuna. Its actually caught while fishing for tuna. Being loaners, they are VERY hard to track, locate and catch on their own... No idea how this relates, good job GDC...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

It's obvious: We have to play a game of cards! (Go Fish!)

Okay, how about this: We have to "fish" for something over a barrier of some sort.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Anyone remember the rumor from last year that the new location for Nationals will be Hawaii after Georgia. Hmm..., a Hawaiin fish...not just for breakfast anymore!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Wow, not even 24 hrs and this post has over 250 replies...

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I can hear Dave Lavery telling his friends "Those students swallowed the 'hint' Hook, Line and Sinker" :D

Game On

Re: Game Hint #1
 

There are 2 layers of overlapping text. open the pic in paint, invert the colors, and you can make out some of it. there is a shark in the background. maybe 2 sharks. crank the brightness in paint, that helps.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

yes I was surprised there were that few too. :)

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I don't know if it is irrelevant or not, Dave is quite taken by 'Fish Boy' at the IRI competition, who belongs to team 1094, the Channel Cats!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

You have to ignore the writing on the picture. The Australian seafood site that it parallels/comes from has writing on most of the backgrounds. Fish used to be wrapped in newspaper a long time ago (and maybe still in some places).

However, because they were all consistent with having newsprint backgrounds, eliminate that. It should be very interesting if FIRST takes it down due to lack of permission, unless they do.... After all, there is a better picture on a Hawaiin fish site, with no background text. Hmm....back to the Australian tie, and possibly anti-gravity....

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Game will be called "Down Under"

Re: Game Hint #1
 

i liked "feeding frenzy" better.....

Re: Game Hint #1
 

There are NO layers.
Terrible

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Sorry ... they've already sent out the hotel registration information. It's in Atlanta again. :cool:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The image is too imprecise to provide any concrete and truthful information on the next year's competition.

In other words... chill out.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I've done a litte research and I believe it's a type of "silver dollar" fish accustomed to Tropical areas. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have any special characteristics that would make for an interesting game. They are peaceful but can be ravinous eaters, that are mostly herbivores, they are a salt water fish and not much else more interesting. If anyone can find anything, I'm sure we'd all be happy to know what. Good luck!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

it's true that the writing may seem insignificant, but you also have to realize that the picture has been edited from its original form from that website. the file is nearly double the size, so i imagine that the text is rather important for the clue. i'm hoping someone posts a photoshop picture of it so we can all see the words.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The hint does hold information, we just don't know what that information is.

And there may be other hints. They may be transparent enough to make connections or see connections with this one - then again - they may not be.

Some fun reads are the past official hint threads. For those who want to see how accurate the guesses/hints were and see how fast the threads grew - read them. It's great fun.

Edit: in the first few pages of this thread, a lot of the research was done regarding the fish, its habits, how it swims, what it eats, its different names, etc.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I think that Dave might just get a jello game...I think that maybe they will put fish into different colored/shaped jello(s) and make you remove the fish from the jello or stack different shaped "jello(s)", also the deal with the vertical migration might lead to having to go up ramps like maybe a multi-platform arena.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Does it have something to do with cameras and driving "blind"...

This article is linked to the Wikipedia's Opah:

Discovering long distance migration and deep diving behavior for large pelagics in the central North Pacific with pop-up archival transmitting tags.

“These tags collect data on the depth and water temperature the fish occupies, and use light data to estimate the daily location of the fish based on day length and time of sunrise and sunset.”

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The exact image complete with the text can be found here: http://www.australianseafoodexports..../moonfish1.jpg

This means that FIRST didn't do anything. It might be something to note that the fish is not called Opah here but instead by the Australian reference a moonfish.

the non-image link is here:
http://www.australianseafoodexports....rderonline.htm

Re: Game Hint #1
 

If you would have read the thread, you would found that the picture was taken directly from a different web site and is unaltered text and all.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

not directly...

as posted about 5 hrs ago... there's some other stuff in the code... including some odd looking XML

-Z

Re: Game Hint #1
 

If you would have read about 24 hours ago you would see the reason for the different file size.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Yesterday, 12:57...

23H 48 MINS APRX

-Z

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I have to agree with what was stated earlier about the details of the fish being unimportant. I think the actual clue aspect of the image is the name or the fact it is a fish in general, or both possibly.

Maybe there will be holes (like moon craters) that you have to "fish" the game piece out of. Otherwise I would just say the name is important, and there is an uneven, moon like playing field.

My last suggestion is that they don't have a game designed yet, and are just taking ideas from what we say about the clues.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

we are in class...

we have laptops...

....


-Zeno

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Maybe the sharks in the background represent the two alliances, and the fish just represents something they are both competing for? Some object?

Re: Game Hint #1
 

But here's the real kicker. FIRST brought the picture into a photo editing program and changed the compression of the JPEG. Thus if they wanted to, they would have removed the background text (or if it had nothing to do with the game).

Thus, I believe, that the background text (be it the text itself, or the fact that it's there and/or it's backwards) was intentionally left there and is part of the hint.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

So far we've only been able to read three words, "body" "deeply" and "forked/forced"
we aren't sure about the last one.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

You can barely see (if even at all) any text in the original image on the FIRST website.
Bottom line, they probably didn't even know the text was there.
The basics of "Fish, Opah, & Moonfish" is the best clues we have to go on.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I still find it ironic that just a few days before this was posted. I posted in the "No way thats going to happen" thread and said, there is no way that first is going to have a game that involves water or having a robot swim/dive. but look at it now. I dont know what FIRST is brewing but it has my attention. I hope to god we dont have to waterproof our electronics... otherwise every team will need spare.... EVERYTHING. LOL

Re: Game Hint #1
 

What about the sharks in the background? Those are visible.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

There's no way it can be an underwater competition. I doubt FIRST could even afford to build the fields. And it would make it much harder for the teams so FIRST would actually lose teams rather then gain them. Not what they want.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

I am sure about it. It says "deeply forked tail" (a description I find in reference to channel catfish, which also approximately match the ghostly image of the fish which we assume is on the other side of the page). Other words I see clearly are "covered" and "dorsal fin", and I think the word before "dorsal" is "lobed".

I'm also pretty confident that the words are completely incidental to the fact that it's a picture of a moonfish.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Very true. I know that it would be an impossible task. Im just sayin... knowing FIRST they have some wacky ideas, im not putting it past them. Heck it does not cost that much to fill a regular sized arena with like 6" of water. im not saying submerged, or maybe there are "pools" on the field. I know i sound nuts, but i like to think that im just as eccentric as all the FIRST folks!:yikes:

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Not in the original picture found here:
http://usfirst.org/community/frc/content.aspx?id=11310


My point is, the original picture shows a fish... one we have established as an Opah, or a moonfish. That's all we have to go on as far as I'm concerned.

But then again.. who knows?? Maybe I'm wrong.
It's only a picture, & nothing to get all worked up about.

Me personally, I'm waiting for the next clue.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

They're in the original, behind the picture of a fish. or they could be a channel catfish, if the text is at all relevant, the image looks fairly close I guess. I'm not a fish person.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

If a tree falls and no one's around to hear it..................

Although this is FIRST, so they could have left it in there to throw us off (as it seems to have done already). Or, maybe they figured that taking out the text is a waste of time.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Just to play off the forked them a little more, let us think in the terms of roads, pairing this with the vertical migrations mentioned countless times we could predict that there will be multiple potential paths, or ways to play the game.

And to further discredit the text, I couldn't even see it on the picture. I saw blue lines but I blamed my monitor for that. It is conceivable that they didn't even notice the text. Now, as for why they would open it in Photoshop, I have no ideas on that.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

OK so I googled "Lampris guttatus" and found that it is Swedish and lampris means glossy and guttatus is spotted I looked at this one site its was in Swedish so i went to the Google translator and pasted the site into translate web sitehttp://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhem.passagen.se%2Fkent.an dersson%2Fglansfisk.htm&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8. It gives some information on this fish. It is also known as a Opah or moonfish.

edit: the word is not Swedish sorry, but I found this site and it has a picture of the fish next to a guy it is huge!!It also talks about how the meat of the fish tastes. Take a look at this it gives some perspective. I know if i saw this fish in the water i would freak out!

Re: Game Hint #1
 

/me wonders how this fish would taste with some "good creole sauce... on a nice bed of dirty rice".:rolleyes:
Obviously it MUST taste better than some Converse All Stars with the same treatment.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=49

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Well i hate to tell you but....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opah

So I hate to ruin all the fun but.. There seems to be a lot of focus on the term "moonfish". I would suggest a more broader approach to the name of the fish when relating it to the future game.

Just a suggestion.:cool:

Carry on.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

The FIRST folks design an FRC game for the season. With that game comes constraints many of us never think about.
Just a few that come to mind are:
- the budgets of the different regionals
- each venue's restrictions/rules
- each vendor's capabilities and generosity
- the current technological capabilities
- the different areas of the world and what all the teams can readily access (an example would be pool noodles used for bumpers. There are posts here in CD regarding the difficulty in obtaining those for some. That's just one example.)

What may appear as wacky or eccentric is far from. The games are given intense scrutiny, dealing with things many of us have never thought of, as I said. They are also created by brilliant minds. In this case, these brilliant minds are focused on serving all of the FRC teams and giving them a game to enjoy and to challenge them. It's fun to joke and tease but it's also good to be aware of the amount of work and effort that goes into this, including these hints.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Yes, this fish has lots of names. But.... If you go to google images and search for moonfish, the first image you get is the one FIRST used.

I kinda think "they" google-imaged moonfish and that's what they got.

Re: Game Hint #1
 

Does anyone remember the "600,000 hours" speech from kickoff last year? This clue hunt seems to fall into that category very nicely. I don't want to Godwin the thread, but no one has mentioned Paris Spears or Britney Hilton yet.

PS: Was it 600k and last year? My brain always fuzzes details like "time" or "order of magnitude".

Re: Game Hint #1
 

its a parana!!!!! i think... we all think its a parana...haha:yikes: