Originally Posted by Forte (Post 780058)

I don't know or care if it's been said before, I'm too lazy to read through pages upon pages of speculation:

"Moonfish" refers to several different fish, not just this Opah.

Interestingly enough, I found that Moonfish is another name for both an Atlantic Spadefish and a Diamondfish.

Spades? Diamonds?

This year's game is robo poker. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by b3t4_2836 (Post 779575)

i'm going with "pastrami gut lust"

but it does have ramp in the list too...

Originally Posted by Boydean (Post 779576)

As stated here - http://www.australianseafoodexports....rderonline.htm

Lampris guttatus weights between 30-50kgs. 50kgs -> 110lbs, NEW WEIGHT LIMIT?? :yikes:

Originally Posted by DMetalKong (Post 780140)

Looking at the 2008 You Design the Game Design Thread, some possible connections with what has been thought of in this thread.

Mentions slick field surface.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...67&postcount=2

You can't catch a fish twice.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...77&postcount=4

A teeter-totter.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=15

Do I need say more?
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=41

Who knows, the GDC could have been watching...

Originally Posted by Ellery (Post 780011)

In my opinions this was just a fish picture scanned from a book with very thin paper so the words are backwards because they are on next page. Onion skin paper and <40gsm paper like bible paper is common for big dictionary like books.

Originally Posted by Amehrotra (Post 780148)

this is not true because we have found the original copy of this photo on google which is exactly the same when you subtract them and has the same format but if you use decrypting software in the clue you will get a message vs the normal pic.

the only thing is that we need a password

Originally Posted by Mew187 (Post 780152)

what decrypting software do you use?

maybe something along the lines of
moonfish not herring or FIRST herring
for the password.

Originally Posted by Greg Needel (Post 779478)

There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.


****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.



so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.

Originally Posted by Kaushal.K (Post 780155)

One of the guys on my team mentioned that some Fish only see certain wavelengths of light... Based on that my bet is that there maybe locations on the field with IR emitters at certain locations, where teams must reach (overcome difficult terrain and/or tetter-totter) to obtain game pieces. It could also involve the camera, as previously mentioned, where the game pieces (or the IR emitter where the game pieces are located) are out of the drivers line of sight, and thus rely on the camera to obtain game pieces.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by njamietech (Post 780181)

but realistically:

Id like to go with this idea:

the field resembles that of previous years except it is raised on stilts. it i raised because there are holes in the playing field holding pieces in them. but heres the kicker: the driver's station windows are blacked out so only the audience can see without the use of a camera. the goal: to score as many points as possible by collecting the pieces from the holes (each with differing point values).

thats my idea.

feel free to correct me or build on my idea.

Originally Posted by synth3tk (Post 780136)

Attached are the numbers I tried. No go.....

Originally Posted by GGCO (Post 780208)

Nothing again. Not a thing... Anyone else want to take a guess at what the password is?

Originally Posted by DJW (Post 780215)

I've analyzed the picture and I've determined that there really is no clue in the background, it is just a picture of another fish and of its description from another page in a book. I'd have to go with the clue relating the description of the fish. To see the picture, look at my signature.

Originally Posted by MaddyTheHatter (Post 780198)

So "Radiant Spot." Coincides with the idea of dark and light contrast to find game pieces, way around, etc.

Originally Posted by braisinchef (Post 780214)

Perhaps it has something to do with scales

Originally Posted by mennyw (Post 780220)

I don't know if anyone did it before, but I made the image darker to see what's hiding in the background. Does it tell anything to anyone?

Originally Posted by mennyw (Post 780220)

I don't know if anyone did it before, but I made the image darker to see what's hiding in the background. Does it tell anything to anyone?

Originally Posted by RoboGeek99 (Post 780221)

i think you might be on to something with that one ;p...and after were done its sushi all around...am i right?

Originally Posted by dbs12693x (Post 780229)

The search says I'm the only one to see this...

but it's a fake fish! I can see seems on the upper-right side.

Thoughts?

-Daniel Smolkin

Originally Posted by TEAM2579MENTOR (Post 780231)

I think it might actually be a water game, because I was talking to someone in the Arizona Regional and I asked her what the 2009 game would be, and she is like a water game, where the robots swim around. But then again, this can be just to throw us off.

Originally Posted by mrbob1000 (Post 780236)

If it is a water game, and it does have a human player, WHO WOULD SWIM AROUND IN FRONT OF LOTS OF PEOPLE!

Originally Posted by MikeMascaro (Post 780233)

You want to pay for swimming pools big enough for six robots at every regional?

Underwater FIRST games aren't going to happen. It's too expensive, and too complex.

Originally Posted by Raumiester2010 (Post 780242)

Ya, as much as it would rock to have an underwater game, WAY TOO COMPLEX...

Originally Posted by SuperJake (Post 779366)

It looks to be a Lampris Guttatus, commonly called an Opah.

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...ry.php?id=1072

Here is a Wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opah

Originally Posted by grim (Post 780245)

It's also called a "Moon Fish" comes from Hawaii.

Originally Posted by lenny8 (Post 780257)

Relax dudes. all he's saying just read before you post wile showing so to do it just in case you dont know how.

Originally Posted by Karibou (Post 780270)

"Shoot the Moon"...anyone in here play Hearts?

http://www.wikihow.com/Shoot-the-Moon-in-Hearts




Maybe it's a game where you have to collect as many scoring objects as you can, and the player/alliance/?? with the least points wins, but if you end up with all of the points, you automatically win the round? Or, you would want to try and get as many points as you can while keeping them away from your opponents. Maybe the field would be divided in half/thirds/however the alliances/bots are set up, and robots could travel between each section. They would have to try and obtain all of the scoring objects while keeping other bots from taking their objects...kind of like capture the flag, I guess. In the event that one alliance cannot obtain all of the points, the alliance with the least amount of points wins.

I have the feeling that I didn't explain that very well... :confused:

Originally Posted by AustinSchuh (Post 780287)

I ran stegdetect on the image. According to the manual, it

Tests if information has been embedded with jsteg.
Tests if information has been embedded with outguess.
Tests if information has been embedded with jphide.
Tests if information has been hidden with invisible secrets.
Tests if information has been hidden with F5.
Tests if information has been added at the end of file, for example by camouflage or appendX.

Here is the output.

I can verify what EricH said. It looks like there is something hidden inside it with jphide. stegbreak is another command that tries to brute force the password inside the file. I ran that for an hour and a half, and it couldn't find anything. It uses a dictionary attack similar to the one that powers John the Ripper.

Running strings on it didn't yield anything useful other than the XML and some other random looking strings.

Originally Posted by DMetalKong (Post 780312)

As in the strings that JPEG compression uses? Or the kind that FIRST has diabolically hidden inside this image?

Originally Posted by SalenaLynn (Post 780320)

The new camera will most likely be used as a major part of the game. In the past few years FIRST has been pushing for more and more teams to learn how to use the cameras and sensors, so my guess is that being able to be entirely or partially autonomous will lend teams a large advantage.

Originally Posted by NBurek (Post 780189)

First off I'd just like to say that I think everyone is reading into this way to much. I doubt that there is any hidden message in the picture or that it has anything to do with the text that was on the reverse page of the book. I also doubt that it is a water based game because the field for that would just be to hard to build.

I think that the idea about the terrain being similar to the moon is practical, but the idea of it being a slick surface just screams lawsuit after some kid slips and breaks something while trying to get the robot on/off the field.

I also think that it could have something to do with the dot pattern on the fish. As mentioned before, the new camera this year is going to have a lot of capabilities and I think one of those is shape/pattern recognition. I also like the aforementioned idea of having the drivers windows painted black so that they can't see and must navigate using the camera.

Does anyone else get the feeling that they don't even design the game and that they just randomly release a clue and let the FIRST community come up with the ideas and then base them off of that?

I also think that there should be a prize at the end of the season for whomever had the closest guess, based off the hints, as to what the game was.

Originally Posted by DMetalKong (Post 780210)

was opah already tried?

Originally Posted by bobwrit (Post 780339)

Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?

Originally Posted by bobwrit (Post 780339)

Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?

Originally Posted by bobwrit (Post 780339)

Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?

Originally Posted by bobwrit (Post 780339)

Interesting find.... At the first store, they've put up the game kit's. http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009GamesKits.html The picture I found most interesting is the one atached. Could the game peices be pucks?

Originally Posted by TEAM2579MENTOR (Post 780231)

I think it might actually be a water game, because I was talking to someone in the Arizona Regional and I asked her what the 2009 game would be, and she is like a water game, where the robots swim around. But then again, this can be just to throw us off.

Originally Posted by pschre (Post 780398)

Out of all the ideas posted on this thread, the two that I'm throwing my support behind are:

1) Moon, Fish, Ocean being a so-called Zen variation of Rock Paper Scissors, where the disciple must have a certain non-attachment to the outcomes of each play in order to be mindful to grab the pebble and ultimately win whenever the master plays Ocean.

2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."

"Both continuous and discrete behaviors" sounds to me like dynamics that a robot would need to be mindful of, so to speak, if it were to play Moon, Fish, Ocean. A more specific prediction of game rules, I won't suggest, but I've heard that with the new control systems robots can communicate with each other, so maybe that will be a factor as well.

Originally Posted by bobwrit (Post 780339)

Could the game peices be pucks?

Originally Posted by pschre (Post 780398)

Out of all the ideas posted on this thread, the two that I'm throwing my support behind are:

1) Moon, Fish, Ocean being a so-called Zen variation of Rock Paper Scissors, where the disciple must have a certain non-attachment to the outcomes of each play in order to be mindful to grab the pebble and ultimately win whenever the master plays Ocean.

2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."

"Both continuous and discrete behaviors" sounds to me like dynamics that a robot would need to be mindful of, so to speak, if it were to play Moon, Fish, Ocean. A more specific prediction of game rules, I won't suggest, but I've heard that with the new control systems robots can communicate with each other, so maybe that will be a factor as well.

Originally Posted by pschre (Post 780398)

2) With the backwards text and all, realizing that fish backwards is HSIF (Hybrid Systems Interchange Format), defined on http://repo.isis.vanderbilt.edu/definitions/ as "an interchange format for hybrid system models that can be shared between modeling and analysis tools. HSIF models represent dynamic systems, whose dynamics includes both continuous and discrete behaviors."

Originally Posted by Greg Needel (Post 779478)

There are many methods of hiding information in photographs. I was able to scan the image at the highest sensitivity for all the major types of encryption (jsteg, jphide, outguess, and invisible) The system of hiding information within photos was able to detect a hidden message. Now the methodology I used just exposes the type of hidden message and not the message itself. The message unfortunatly for us appears to be hidden in the JPHIDE which utilizes a password based encryption so without the password it will be impossible to figure out the message. Although we do know that there is something there.


****disclaimer: the way the analysis tools that I have scan the data it looks for missing voids in repeating color sections of the photo (complex photos with lots of colors are best for hiding). When I tested with normal sensitivity I didn't see any result, but on cranking up the sensitivity I found proof of an encryption. With all things like this it is possible to get a false positive, but since this is all for fun anyway we can just assume it is there.



so what do we think the password is? I might try to make a dictionary and brute force it later after I am done with the bench top test of the new control system.

Originally Posted by Oris (Post 779404)

I doubt they scanned it... found this image here:

http://www.australianseafoodexports..../moonfish1.jpg

http://www.australianseafoodexports....rderonline.htm

Google Images: "Moon Fish"

Enjoy!

-Oris-

Originally Posted by robonerd13 (Post 780452)

I think that maybe everybody is a little bit right. The terrain will be rough/bumpy but will also have a water aspect. This might be that the carpet is wet....you never know...:eek:

Originally Posted by tehpenguin (Post 780446)

Maybe this encryption is a dead end.

Originally Posted by hihihiflcl81pig (Post 780437)

Thanks you for the definition.

As I was reading through the forum to catch up with what was being thought of, there were many people bringing up the possibility on encrypted text in the shading values of the pixel, and what the password that corresponded with the extraction of that data maybe. A few people asked to try numbers from posts, random numbers, and words that related to the fish. Then a few people said to try the passwords from past years, and this reminded me of last year.

One person went to the spot were the GPS coordinates were, said there was a statue of a heir and a tortoise, than went on to say that it was facing a building and blah, blah, blah. That person didn't even notice that they skipped the answer to the clue. Last year we over thought the clues, and we are doing the same again.

Look at what I quoted in the beginning of this post, sound familiar? To me thats the new control system exactly. Now what about the image of the fish? what does it mean? Could it be another saying/ moral/ folklore?

Fish out of water

We are all Fish out of water.

Programmers = LabVeiw

Electrical = Module system

Mechanical = They always have something new ;D

As for the image size, and oddities with the difference of the images having blue, and orange circles popping up, well I don't really know what's going on with that but, I do know we are all over thinking this problem.

Originally Posted by AndyB (Post 780467)

I totally agree that everyone is over analysing this thing.

What about:

1 Fish 2 Fish Red Fish Blue Fish

Red Alliance has 1 of something while Blue Alliance has 2 of something?

Originally Posted by techalex (Post 780469)

Also, does anyone know if there was / where to find the 2006 game hints? (I am sure they are on CD somewhere, but buried very deep. :) )

Originally Posted by DMetalKong (Post 780520)

Gah! Dave changed his signature again.



Edit: Ok, now that he has posted a series of 5 numbers, I'm thinking zip code. 56345 happens to be the zip for Little Falls, MN. Then again, it could have nothing to do with places.

Edit #2: Does anyone know if his signature contained anything else unusual before the "To the five, you keep me alive"? That was when I started tracking it, but the sequence could have started before then.

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur (Post 779854)

But here's the real kicker. FIRST brought the picture into a photo editing program and changed the compression of the JPEG. Thus if they wanted to, they would have removed the background text (or if it had nothing to do with the game).

Thus, I believe, that the background text (be it the text itself, or the fact that it's there and/or it's backwards) was intentionally left there and is part of the hint.

Originally Posted by DeepWater (Post 779682)

For what it is worth the original image seems to be copyrighted by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industial Research Organisation (CSIRO) of Australia. Go to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearc...pcode=37268001 and click the little “image info” link under our new favorite photo at the top of the page. It should take you to this page: http://www.marine.csiro.au/caabsearc...7268001a-t.jpg with the copyright info.

The photo is available for purchase in high resolution here: http://www.frdc.com.au/shop/merchant...ore_Code=photo if say you wanted to publish it in a book as an illustration.

The photo FIRST is using as Clue #1 seems to come from a simple Google Images search for “moonfish” which in turn originated here (as previously noted in this thread): http://www.australianseafoodexports..../moonfish1.jpg which is linked to from this parent webpage: http://www.australianseafoodexports....rderonline.htm

The image used on www.australianseafoodexports.com has the reverse text in the background as does the FIRST Clue #1 image. The GDC did not covertly plant any hidden messages in the reverse text. They have better things to do with their time. More likely the Australian seafood export company scanned a photo of a “moonfish” they had handy in some book and the text on the backside of the page (probably about some entirely different and non-related fish) came through on the scan. My bet is this is the book: http://www.publish.csiro.au/?nid=18&pid=2181 but it may be this one also: http://www.publish.csiro.au/?nid=18&pid=3551. I don’t have a copy of either book myself but may can find one at the office when I get back next week. If anyone lives near a university with a marine research program they might want to check the university library and see what they can find.

Given that last year the clue was in fact a latitude and longitude coordinate it might also be worth considering the CAAB Taxon Code for Lampris guttatus is 37 268001 which could easily be construed as a latitude in North America. If a Clue # 2 comes along it might be a reference to a longitude. I doubt that the GDC would give us a lat/lon 2 years in a row but you never know.

Originally Posted by gorrilla (Post 780526)

here
http://www.littlefallsmn.com/Homepage.php

all i found was that it was were Charles Lindbergh lived? And theres this Ripley Esker thing too? And a fishing museum too?