Game Hint #2
 

Thursday, December 11, 2008
Game Hint # 2

Good Morning Teams,

Take your machine out of the shop on Colorado in Paramount;
stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix;
drive by and make a pickup on Minnetonka in Minnetonka;
then head to the field on Evergreen in Dover.

23 Days until Kickoff
See you then


Posted by Bill at 7:02 AM 0 comments

Re: Game Hint #2
 

This reminds me of the 2006 game hint- it was a riddle which mentioned Montanta's green heights, or something along those lines.

It sounds like there are different tasks in different locations? A lot of people talked about different "levels" or the possibility of platforms with the first game hint, this would still be consistent here.

I wonder if the pattern of the capitalized letters matters at all? CP, CP, but then MM, ED. It looked like it was going for a pattern, and then it got cut off at the end, maybe this has some sort of symbolism?

Thoughts on what the places mean?

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What happens if we crash Google Maps???

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As a person who has lived in Minnesota (where Minnetonka is), when I read that I immediately think LAKE Minnetonka. It is a large lake in the suburbs of the Twin Cities. Lots of ice fishing in the winter.
Don't know what it means beyond that though.
-Ryan

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http://www.merchantcircle.com/busine...s.302-674-4641

that's got to be the field evergreen in Dover . . well it could be

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these are street names in cities

colorado st. is in parimount CA, there are shops all along the street.

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No no no, obviously its talking about a mini Tonka truck. Face it people, we're building Tonka trucks :rolleyes:

Re: Game Hint #2
 

UUUUUGGGGGGGG. Makes no sense! why are the prepositions screwed up?!?!?! It's really throwing me off. And where does the moonfish come in?

EDIT: For future reference to new thread readers, it was found here: http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

Re: Game Hint #2
 

There is a Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA
A Central Ave in Phoenix, AZ
Minnetonka BLVD Minnetonka, MN
Evergreen Drive in Dover OH and DE

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Team 1816 built during the 2007 season just off of Minnetonka Blvd. at a Honeywell facility.
-Ryan

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Since each of the terms in the ordered pairs are capitalized, they could be proper names. I looked, and in each of the cities listed (Paramount, CA; Phoenix, AZ; Minnetonka MN; and Dover, DE) there exists a street named for the first term in the pair. What does it mean? I have no idea.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Zamboines are made on Colorado Ave in Paramount CA.

ICE GAME

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I agree with smurfgirl. A set of tasks. Less interaction between alliances.
1--move out af starting position
2-- hook-up with other bots-universal connector in kop?
3-- do task
4-- get to finish line

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I like the sound of Evergreen. Perhaps the CMUcam is making a comeback, in some way that will allow it to be used all match. Or maybe a longer autonomous period, or even a self selected time for autonomous. That'd be nifty!

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Microsoft is on Central Ave in Phoenix

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I have no useful input on the clue, but I'm terribly curious if the GDC ever stops to consider the effect their clues might have on the Google ranks of all these different words and phrases. I mean, Opah probably saw the biggest jump in popularity ever last week...

Won't someone think of the poor confused search engine optimizers?

Re: Game Hint #2
 

As a Viking fan, I immediately thought of the Vikings 'love boat scandal', which occured on Lake Minnetonka. Hopefully this has nothing to do with the new game, because that would probably be a poor choice by FIRST...

Re: Game Hint #2
 

On google maps all Coordinates indicated by the clue end up going from near the west coast (The Paramount Cafe in Denver, Colorado and the town of Central, Phoenix) To the midwest (Minnetonka, Minnesota) To the East (Evergreen Field in Dover, Ohio).

If you put all of the points together it forms triangle similar to the one in the FIRST logo, so it might have a connection to what the game piece is this year, and it seems that there are going to be different actions related to the game piece (picking up, connecting) and then we need to place it somewhere ( The field) No clue how this relates to the fish though.

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lol


NO

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On Minnetonka Industrial Rd is the Honeywell facility and St. Jude Medical. Minnetonka Blvd has lots of government offices for Minnetonka.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Someone on my team thought of a sort of "delivery" thing. Having to collect a bunch of things and delivery them. He made this guess based off the first clue (his train of thought was moonfish->shooting the moon->collecting hearts->collecting a bunch of something, craziness)

I think this hint sounds like a delivery.. not sure about the specific places though...

Re: Game Hint #2
 

try looking at google maps street level camera dealy,

there are forklift cranes ouside on colorado ave, in paramount CA,

all of the central ave, st, & drives in phoenix connect to a 1st ave, st, drive.

there is a truck with a trailer when you get to the ground level camera for Minnetonka Blvd, minnetonka, MN

and there is a football field, off of evergreen dr, dover OH so maybe some sort on end zone, scoring area

Re: Game Hint #2
 

There is some kind of football filled on Evergreen Dr, Dover, OH.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Start with our Zamboni on a slippery surface, get some data from Microsoft, pick up a football in MN and play with it in Ohio.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I think it would be sweet if the robots started in a garage (shop)
Had to form a train of some sort
Go ice fishing
& then play football.


BUT since i am really really bad at these things... Have Fun & I'm going back to ignoring the game hints.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Cities names matching the hint nationwide:
Paramount - 3 (CA, AL, MD)
Phoenix - 10 (AZ, IL, LA, MD, MI, MS, NY, OR, CO, GA)
Minnetonka - 1 (MN)
Dover - 10 (DE, NH, NJ, OH, AR, FL, ID, IL, IN, KS)

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Re: Game Hint #2
 

It is interesting that on Nov. 13th there was a spike in searching for Opah. That was before the hint came out. I guess Dave was looking to see what we would find in a search.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

i cant stop laughing!!! your not the only one!

Re: Game Hint #2
 

It's all gibberish to me, but i'll guess anyway.

good morning teams = there is a bright light up high.

paramount = steep terrain

evergreen = green light (to be used with the Ethernet camera)

I think this year will heavily depend on getting a camera to work. Before with the CMU camera the micro controller was barely able to use it. But, now we have a whole computer to control a camera.

other than that i have no idea. I like the idea of a triangle shaped match though.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I haven't put it all together (and ofcourse I could be way of base) but this clue goes with my comments on the last clue. I have no idea what page I made my comments on but

OPAH is a French government agency to improve communities and living conditions. I do not speak french and I am not sure how what I said fits in "O.P.A.H." but this clue seems to point to the same thing. Where there are different activities going on at different places with one main goal in mind. What do you think?

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I told myself I'd stay out of the obsession this year, but I couldn't resist...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sadd...97&ie=UTF8&z=4

A route connecting the four streets. Note that there are actually two Evergreen Drives in Dover, OH and Dover, DE, but they both satisfy my theory more or less. All four locations go from left to right, with the first two and the last two being at about the same "elevation" (the first two are more south, the last two more north). 4 stages? Second two higher up or something? Check out the link and you'll see what I mean.

Also, I think this confirms the idea that the game will involve some sort of a handoff or giving of the game piece to other bots. The Opah being a prizefish which is often given as a gift, then this:

Taking out of the shop = coming out of the home zone
Get connected = meet up with other bots
Make a pickup = handoff
Head to the field = go play the game

Granted this could also be interpreted to several of the other games (05-07 off the top of my head), where the human player has given the game piece to their bots. But the possibilities are there.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

This is actually very useful thanks for the input

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Perhaps it is some sort of capture the flag type game. POssibly start at different places, meet up with the rest of your team, pick up the flag and head to the endzone.

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Maybe we have to make bike messenger robots? We have to stop by each location and drop off a package. By rule, no robot is allowed to have multiple speeds or brakes. Bonus points are given to robots that can do tricks and wear fashionable clothing.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Just like last year's 3-coordinates hint, I think we are overthinking this hint.

1. Assume these are street names in cities, as previously pointed out.
2. Someone figure out what machine shops/garages are on Colorado Ave in Paramount, CA
3. Someone figure out what computer, electronics, telephone, internet/etc places are along Central Ave in Phoenix. Note that these could also be anything that get people connected to each other, such as dating services, bridal shops, etc.
4. Figure out what delivery or food places that deliver are on Minnetonka St/Ave in Mennetonka, MN.
5. Figure out what parks/fields are on Evergreen St. in Dover.

List all of the businnesses/places from steps 2-5 and then we can proceed. This is one pretty cool hint :cool:

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Zamboni is it. I tried machine shop, auto shop, automotive shop, and just plain shop in Google Maps.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

is it possible for these places connected could be the arena?

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Possible. Zambonis are used to resurface hockey arenas, pickup could refer to a pickup game of [your favorite sport] and you could easily play in a field. You play those pickup games when you're connected with your buddies.

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Like pond ice hockey on Lake Minnetonka.

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Exactly (though I don't think you use a Zamboni on that...).

What "connection points" are on Colorado in Phoenix? That could be important.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

stop by and get connected on Central in Phoenix

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I just remembered there is an ice arena on Minnetonka Blvd. (with all the other government buildings) (it is Minnesota after all).

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I looked on Wikimapia along Colorado Ave in Phoenix. There were 3 or 4 bank buildings (skyscrapers), some restaurants, 2 schools a Make a Wish office, and one of McCain's condos (the clue doesn't reference the locations of the others. I already explored that). Nothing that really stood out though.

Edit: and microsoft as pointed out. I kept thinking that was in Paramount...I'm confused already

Re: Game Hint #2
 

You're right! Especially with some of the more recent Microsoft commercials.

So, Zamboni connects via computer to an ice arena on Minnetonka Blvd.-- Oh, no. Autonomous ice smoothing.

What about that last one?

BTW, I detect the return of HDPE. I thought we'd lost that after 2004. More specifically, ramps with HDPE.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Guys, I figured it out. Minnetonka -> Minnetonka Lake -> water game.

So it's clearly a water game.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Maybe just autonomous smooth/slick something? Ice is a little harder to do...

And the HDPE thing is definitely possible... especially since you mention ramps, I'm still hooked on the idea of different "levels".

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Two problems: 1) Zamboni 2) Minnesota in winter is frozen.

Ice game.

Hence the HDPE in my last post--that's commonly used as fake ice.

Oh and there's worse. Much worse...

Dave posted this a while back. 'Nuff said.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

maybe the moon fish and the "Good Morning Teams" could go together, as to say you start out with a dark playing field or start out having to use the camera for sight and then move on to a brighter field or be able to see without use of the camera.

I like the idea of an "ice game" but I the only problem that I see is how they would keep the ice frozen and then all of the competitions would have to have a zamboni, if traction wheels can go through carpet I think they can probly go through ice...

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I'm thinking that the "Good morning teams" is not part of the hint. If you look at all his posts, they either start out that way or start with "Good afternoon teams".

Re: Game Hint #2
 

hi
the first hint was a fish called the opah. and thanks to the second hint i belive that this game would be about fishing or using and arm to grab an object.

if you have any more information about the challenge this year please post a reply to my comment

thankz
^(0_0)^

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Ice games would be favoring us who actually get ice. :)

I also apologize for this useless post so I will toss some speculation.

Picture a combination of 2003 and 2004, multiple levels on the playing field using a slippery substance as the ramps (HPDE as Eric suggests) This was pulled from the moonfish's vertical migrations (Hanging please?) and the same place as Eric's HPDE comment.

Now back to watching us skew google results. What if some company just hired FIRST to do SEO for them?

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Yes, I agree, that's exactly what I think.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Yes, I agree, that's exactly what I think.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Connection On Central in Phoenix:

There is a N Central Ave and S Central Ave in Phoenix AZ.
Maybe something of interest where they connect?

Re: Game Hint #2
 

My first thoughts, not published on the Hint #1 thread was why did FIRST look for a picture of a "moon fish". We know they have thrown NASA challenges at us before. I therefore speculated it was having to do with the moon, perhaps the search for water ice for a sustained based. But harvesting 'water ice' would not make an exciting game. What else would NASA want to do on the moon with robots?

After Hint 2, I am expecting a construction challenge. Robots may have to work together to assemble something and then rush home for bonuses.

Now I am stretching further to see what the game might be...
Some robots may have to assemble a goal while one or more others gather the scoring elements. If the scoring elements are in the assembled goal and the robots are back in their starting base, there are bonuses. Would be interest...

Re: Game Hint #2
 

The true question is...




what does this mean for the fish?!?!? :eek:

Re: Game Hint #2
 

i am in phoenix and our school is on central. we host the kickoff every year, could this have anything to do with it?

Re: Game Hint #2
 

What I saw on Minnetonka in Minnetonka: A bunch of parks, about half of which had athletic fields (pickup game, or pickup from a game) and one of which had some form of dome; a bunch of lakes and ponds (pond hockey--another "pickup"), and a marina or so. This using Google Maps.


Final analysis (for now): sports-based game, most closely related to hockey. There will be HDPE or Lexan on the field, on a raised element. You don't have to be on the raised element to score, but you will need to keep moving (fish and format of the last clue). And don't damage the field!

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I really hate jumping in without finishing the thought process, but I just can't help myself.

OK, from clue #1.
An Opah, a gift that is given away.

From clue #2.
During Autonomous, the package (the gift) can be picked up.
It will then be "connected", passed off, via Microsoft in Phoenix, through a window or "Windows".

The rest I am still working out.

This same sequence above can continue during tele-op, but bonuses are applied during autonomous.

Keep working on this........ I feel like I am rambling a bit here.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

So a slick surface. We could have to "pick up" something at the top of a very slippery ramp.

Good catch!

Furthermore, I wonder if the last line refers to Evergreen Farms. The two references to this are that it's Christmas season, and we are in fact playing on a sort of field. So maybe other than the ramps, there will be many obstacles in the middle of the field.

The final conjecture I have for the last line is that Dover Publications has a Dover Evergreen Classics collection which has many popular childrens stories in it. Many of those stories have references to fields in them. Unfortunately, this company is in Mineola, NY...so the street/city nomenclature doesn't match.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

That's brilliant!

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I showed this to one of our (non-technical) mentors, she wrote back:

I was better off with the fish....

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I really like this, Also I will throw out there that evergreen drive, DE is connected to South Dupont Highway. Since we all know that the DuPont Color associated with FIRST is green I say the green lights are coming back.

If we follow this theme what other company's and then products can we infer from the other lines.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

If we are sticking with the location gig, I found an Evergreen International Airport (air field) in Dover, Delaware.

It is located at the Dover Air Force Base.

<edit> Here is a map with the current locations that have been mentioned.

Maybe there is a wall separating one alliance partner from the other two. The two alliance partners have to feed the one (or vise versa) playing pieces to score.
</edit>

Re: Game Hint #2
 

That's it! flying game! Here's my entry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO67Yha_03g

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Ice Game! Yes... combine that with the hockey pucks in the FTC game this year and the Canadian influence on FIRST is really starting to show! :)

Yeah, yeah... I know other countries play hockey... and thank goodness for that or international hockey matches would be rather boring.

Actually having some part of the playing surface be low-friction (perhaps hdpe) would be a most interesting challenge and would get away from the bigger torquier (is that even a word?) drive systems and pushing matches that defined success in a few of our past games.

The only catch would be coming up with a surface that teams could afford to practice on. A 4x8 sheet of HDPE could be fairly expensive. Simply using smooth concrete might serve the same purpose... but that would present a challenge in gymnasiums...

In any case, bring on the ice!

Jason

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Or if we go with the Dover, OH theory with the football field on Evergreen Drive, then the game piece will finally be footballs. Footballs were brought up in reference to the Opah's (tropical fish so I say no to ice fishing) shape.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Adding to my pervious post and building on this one....
Passing, or making a connection through a target window, with a football (Nerf of course) could quite easily be part of the game.

Multiple mentions of a "light" also sit well with me. We do receive a camera with the KOP, or early shipment systems. The vision vi's do allow for specific color tracking. So the thought of hitting a mark with a projectile (like the arrow shape formed by the "moonfish" in "Finding Nemo", see hint #1 thread) sounds like a real possibility.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Pucks, hmmm... maybe combine 2002 (the year with the big pucks if I recall) and a slippery surface with multiple levels. Each team is trying to give away the pucks.

Also, hockey, let us try to steer away from the negative aspects of hockey such as fighting. Instead let us steer more towards the positive ones such as Michigan teams winning :) Sorry, I had to toss that out there.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Could the Minnetoka pick up be in reference to TONKA trucks? Originally manufactured at Mound Metalcraft… Possibly some kind of transportation involving carrying and dumping.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Since I'm from Dover, DE, I love all the attention it's getting. But I agree with Eric, the football field on Evergreen Drive in Dover, OH is just about as in your face as it could get.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

1999, the first year of alliances, the year of the puck, and the year of the floppies. For reference, the "puck" was an octagonal structure that gave you 2X your score if you controlled it and bonus points if you were on it. It was flat, about 6-12" high, and had two vertical uprights that weren't very tall. The floppies were donuts about half the puck's height with velcro around the edge and filling the center. They were stuffed with foam peanuts.

2002 was Zone Zeal, with five zones on the field. Hmm... hockey has zones, too!

Re: Game Hint #2
 

While I'm not sure there'd be a barrier quite so physical, I do like the idea of FIRST forcing us to rely on cameras to interact with our alliance partner(s). And it does fit with the fishing idea. Based on the idea of shooting the moon, maybe there's a competition to have either the least of a certain object on your side, or all of it... but that could result in sickening stalemates. Hmm, maybe not.

Someone mentioned a triangular field earlier, and while I think that's unlikely, it'd be interesting to have 3 alliances of 2 robots each. Hard to score, though.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

If you assume Dover, OH, the whole trip is right at 3000 miles (depending on where in Minnetonka you put the marker). Not sure what to make of that, we already assumed we would have 3 members per alliance. If were were to assume a triangle field, it could be 3 members per alliance, and 3 alliances, so 9 robots on the field at once???

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sadd...,77.167969&z=4

Re: Game Hint #2
 

i like the idea of a hockey style game (ice optional). but thats mostly because I am from Calgary Alberta and as result I am a HUGE flames fan.

GO FLAMES GO.

anyways,

I think a hockey game is possible. I also like the idea of a triangluar field. we have had other field shapes but never a triangle.

however, i think a little more investigation is needed.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

There are two species of opah - one of which is only found in the Southern Ocean waters around the South Pole (ice game?) 34th parallel south to the Antarctic Polar Front

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Does this make anyone else think of that picture with the curling robots on a multi-level ice field? I've been searching for it here, but to no avail.

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For what it is worth, that stadium in Dover, OH is not on Evergreen Dr. Rather, it is on 7th St and Evergreen Dr is housing.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I linked to it earlier in this thread.

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Here

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If you assume Paramount, CA and Dover, DE, you can also make the conjecture that teams will have to go all the way from one side of the field to the other side of the field to complete the task.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

That's a good point. And we know that Dean hates sports, so maybe a football field is a bad fit. An airfield does seem a better fit for a field that Dean would approve of.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I think Eric was TRYING to get them to read the thread themselves. I'll say it again here (though I know it will be ignored in this frenzy) READ THE THREAD!

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Not really paying attention to the proper nouns used in the riddle, and combining it with the first hint, i think the game is likely to go as follows:

Autonomous mode: Bots must make a sensory connection to some sort of object, say, in the center of the field, and must 'fish' for an object, either up high or in a hole. Once Autonomous ends, the bots then must try to get similar objects from the sides of the fields, then must place then either in a goal on either their end of the field, or their opponents end of the field.

This fits the clues in the riddle and the picture of a fish.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Yep, that's part of it. The other part is I didn't want to go chase it down again.

And I second the call to read the thread. It's still under 100 posts, so it shouldn't take that long.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I'm a little surprised no one has come up with this yet:

There are FRC teams in Dover NH, Phoenix AZ and Minnetonka MN. But not in Paramount CA.

There is a Colorado in Paramount, a Central Ave in Phoenix, a Minnetonka (Drive?) in Minnetonka, and an Evergreen Valley Drive in Dover. The last is a small residential cul de sac, but there is a baseball field near the end of the drive. So it might not be the football stadium in Dover, OH.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I think we need to look closer at the dome, it jumps out at me for some reason, also does no one else see head on tothe field, a connection to FTC perhaps?

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Just throwing this out there, but if we continue with the "uneven terrain" stuff, Dover could also be a dual reference to Dover, England, the site of some rather famous cliffs. I think if anything it would be a side reference though, I have a feeling the U.S. locations are more important.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

There are lots of teams relatively close to Paramount, CA, though. FRC 2174 is just northwest, FRC 1135 was just east, I live not too far to the west, andt there are teams there, oh, and Paramount's just up the 710 freeway from Long Beach, where the Los Angeles Regional will be held this year.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I also notice a connection to movies, DreamWorks from moonfish and Paramount as in Paramount Pictures.

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It's not exactly in Minnetonka. It's closer to the area of Saint Louis Park, MN.

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has anymore conected the cities to see what the lines make?

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Central (Ave) in Phoenix:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central...oenix,_Arizona

A place to get connected there, would be the Light Rail public railway.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

I believe we will be ice fishing so to speak.

Slippery areas would give the drive team something new to think about, while fishing would give upper mechanical a challenge.

As for programming i think the camera will be used to locate the "fish" in autonomous mode.

Just a guess based on other peoples ides but work off of it please.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Do you remember what cross-street you saw the dome at? I don't recall a dome out that way and didn't see anything that I thought was one.

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Running with IndySam here:

There is a zamboni shop on Colorado Ave in Paramound, CA (Machine out of the shop)
There is a fair trade internet cafe on Central Ave., Phoenix, AZ (Get connected)
"Goin' Postal is a shipping center on Minnetonka Blvd., Minnetonka, MN. (Make a pickup)
Crater Stadium, home of the Dover Tornados is on Evergreen Dr., Dover, OH (head to the field)

Re: Game Hint #2
 

It's in Bronx Park, Saint Louis Park, MN, if it is a dome. Closest to Idaho Ave. S and Minnetonka.

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Aaaahh, mailboxes again! :ahh:

Re: Game Hint #2
 

Oh sorry, I missed the bottom line on that post... which happened to be the one that had the link.

I guess I'm not the only one who thought of that, though. (: