Chief Delphi - CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

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Re: CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcclary (Post 875046)

What is our project? This is a Fall R&D project. We wish to gain the capacity to accurately servo control a 24" sliding joint to say ~7-8 bits (or better) position resolution over its length (~4-10+ steps/inch) , with a cheap, easily made, compact feedback device.

If this is a prototype for possible FIRST use, I would say that +/- 1.0 inches is sufficiently accurate. If your actual design during season requires more than that, it won't be very human friendly.

Now, purely for R&D it's a cool idea, but don't think that such accuracy is always required. Your manipulator should be designed to allow substantial amounts of inaccuracy.

Re: CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcclary (Post 875046)

Rack and pinion pots won't easily fit there, and optical slides could get dirty. Without a rotational joint present, cheap pots won't work either.

Something equivalent to a 25" string pot (into our Analog Inputs) seems ideal, but it:
A) Needs to be CHEAP to make (no $100 commercial string pots!), and
B) Preferably can be assembled MOSTLY with COTS hardware store items, with as little machining as possible.

Try a "chain pot". Instead of string, use a length of #25 chain. Think of a flexible rack & pinion connected to the end of your slide, with the chain bending around a pot-equipped sprocket and having a tensioning spring at the far end.

With a large enough sprocket, you might even be able to get away with a single-turn pot (or a magnetic absolute position sensor).

What are you using to move the slide? If it's a chain, you're most of the way there already.

Re: CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 875050)

If this is a prototype for possible FIRST use, I would say that +/- 1.0 inches is sufficiently accurate.

I think you are missing the point here. This is not to solve a SPECIFIC design problem, it is For The Toolkit, as a Challenge... You can always DROP resolution for simpler needs, but it is much tougher task to INCREASE it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson (Post 875052)

Try a "chain pot". Instead of string, use a length of #25 chain. Think of a flexible rack & pinion [...] What are you using to move the slide? If it's a chain, you're most of the way there already.

Oooooohhh... Now THAT is an excellent idea, with potential! We'll have to look at that one! (See... I have faith in creativity of this community!) :cool:

BTW... What moves the slide, and the load are both irrelevant at this time. The challenge goal, as stated, is to make/develop/find a CHEAP and SIMPLE way to SENSE POSITION of a servo controlled 24" slide, and if at all possible, with the above spec'd resolution (or the best we can do, for the given $20-$25 budget). We can choose the app and a specific actuator later.

Because: A closed loop system is first off limited by the resolution of the feedback sensor/system. That is why we are shooting for what some here seem to feel is "excessive resolution". Given a "decent" resolution sensor, we can do ANYTHING. Once one knows where the slide is, LATER experiments can then test how EITHER cylinders OR motors actually perform, to move it around. (Which works better may well depend on the final app, load, and mounting orientation.)

Heck, if we can't REACH 0.1" resolution with the sensor that may be fine, but that is not a reason to never even TRY for it. Who knows? If can only hit 1" resolution for $20 per axis we are still WAY better off than before we tried, and we STILL have a new trick up our sleeve. (But I would bet if the team tries, it CAN do better than 1" resolution for $20 in sensing cost [discounting labor of course]...)

Any more cool ideas on making a cheap and simple feedback sensor, for 2' slide joints, for about $20, and using primarily COTS hardware store hardware??

- Keith

Re: CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

If you try the "chain pot" idea and the chain is not driven, you might consider using VEX Chain. It is extremely light and has a tiny bend radius.

Re: CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

We have bought string pots from Unimeasure in the past. They were very good quality and you can get them in a variety of different pull lengths.

http://www.unimeasure.com/

Re: CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Zondag (Post 875095)

We have bought string pots from Unimeasure in the past. They were very good quality and you can get them in a variety of different pull lengths. http://www.unimeasure.com/

Hey Jim!

A quick look shows it to be a mfg generic site. No sales tray, suggested prices, nor distributors listed. Digging around, the few Unimeasure items I could find via Google were hundreds of dollars apiece, which as stated is not what we wish to pay. From the spec sheets, their LX-PA-25 looks -about- right, but searching and Google Shopping returns NO sales hits for it whatsoever.

Where can you buy them (esp at surplus prices, if possible)? <edit> What did you get, and what did you pay for yours? </edit>

Do you know: Does Unimeasure (or another maker) make a unit that fits the spec of this discussion, or are we back to trying to make something that approximates it, to reduce cost? ( 25" cable, 0.1" resolution [IOW repeatable to about that error band], don't care about linearity, ~$20-25 each ballpark...)

- Keith

Re: CHEAP or EASY String Pots (source, or fabbed)

Has anyone been able to find price on these:
http://www.celesco.com/sp/index.htm