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-   -   HDPE or ICE FLOOR (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70582)

gorrilla 15-12-2008 20:05
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgin Clock (Post 784192)
I'm thinking that if it's drifting on carpet, the carpet will bunch up even more on the ends of the field than it already does, but I would like to see that (drifting) happen on a game one of these years for low (height-wise) robots only - for tipping safety concerns of course.

it would be fun (to do and watch)

i saw teams do it this year.....

DMetalKong 15-12-2008 20:22
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilstogi11 (Post 784184)
This is actually a serious question:

What do you guys think of teams drifting around on the field during a match?

Controlled drifts, of course.
Need for Speed: Underground - FIRST Style. Teams are awarded points depending on the length of their drifts. :)

I predict an increase in the demand for mecanum wheels.

Brandon Holley 15-12-2008 20:32
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 784195)
It's not impossible, but it's rather unlikely we'll get a field like that.
I agree that the possibility of that happening is very slim, but I envisioned the topic at hand being able to handle a terrain not seen in FIRST games before.

nitsua60 15-12-2008 23:06
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 784126)
I can only think of one recent year, 2003, where HDPE was a surface you HAD to interact with to be competitive, and even then, the most dominant team just used roughtop tread. 111 didn't win because they could push, they won becuase they employed a superior strategy for controlling the top; ramps and a crab drive.

...

In 2004, teams thought they had to climb onto the HDPE platforms to hang from the bar, some made radically complex drivetrains to achieve this. When I saw 60/67/254 hang from the ground (and 60/254 at AMAZING speed as they used their drive motors to power their winch) and completely ignore the platform, I was inspired. Not only did they not have to design any radical crazy drivetrain to climb onto the platform, allowing them to stick with a simple 6 wheel, they were able hang faster than anyone.

I highly doubt that, "Lets push", "No, lets push HARDER!", will ever be a good strategy in FIRST. You can't mention 71 in 2002 as a counterexample, as their extreme pushing ability was just one piece of the puzzle that made their robot dominant that year.
I've been away from the game for 10 years and am returning as a rookie mentor. Is there anywhere that documents the various successful (and spectacularly unsuccessful) teams from year to year? Their strategies, tactics, designs, and capabilities? I'd love to read up and have some of my kids learn more about the different year's challenges and contendors. Thanks,

-mca

EricH 15-12-2008 23:57
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsua60 (Post 784291)
I've been away from the game for 10 years and am returning as a rookie mentor. Is there anywhere that documents the various successful (and spectacularly unsuccessful) teams from year to year? Their strategies, tactics, designs, and capabilities? I'd love to read up and have some of my kids learn more about the different year's challenges and contendors. Thanks,

-mca
Other than Chief Delphi, I would HIGHLY recommend The Blue Alliance (TBA) as a source on this. For anything 2006 or newer, they probably have match video to watch.

Next up: the two Behind the Design books (FIRST Robots: Behind the Design and Behind the Design: Rack n' Roll ) cover 30 designs each from 2006 and 2007 respectively. These were developed by FIRST and published by Rockport Publishing. As a team, you want at least one of the two, and probably both. We're talking the next best thing to sticking your head in a top-quality robot.

There are some legends out there that you may have missed: Beatty 2002, for example. Look around Chief Delphi for that robot. This is widely held to be one of the best FRC robots ever.

For the rules, FIRST has some old manuals up on their website. You might look through those, as there have been a lot of changes from your time. Alliance size is the biggest.

If you'd like to PM or email me, go ahead and I'll see if I can help you out.

Bsteckler 23-12-2008 17:55
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Just a thought

For a completely ice or HDPE floor or track, I wouldn't go with a drivetrain at all, I would do this.

Only problem is that since they don't interact with the floor, they have bad climbing and poor traction.

any rubber-on-floor method for ice/HDPE would have its drawbacks, as there is still a loss of traction involved when the rubber doesn't grip the floor. Not to mention the fact that since the floor is low-friction, it would be hard to stop or turn the bot once it started going. One of these would be complex to build, but any team that attempted it would be granted the engineering award x10, but that's just MHO.

GBIT 23-12-2008 18:20
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsteckler (Post 786766)
Just a thought

For a completely ice or HDPE floor or track, I wouldn't go with a drivetrain at all, I would do this.

Only problem is that since they don't interact with the floor, they have bad climbing and poor traction.

any rubber-on-floor method for ice/HDPE would have its drawbacks, as there is still a loss of traction involved when the rubber doesn't grip the floor. Not to mention the fact that since the floor is low-friction, it would be hard to stop or turn the bot once it started going. One of these would be complex to build, but any team that attempted it would be granted the engineering award x10, but that's just MHO.

The only downside to this design is trying to obtain enough lift and propulsion with the voltage put out by the batteries, but i agree if a team could pull it off it would be pretty cool...

Alex Dinsmoor 23-12-2008 19:35
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
The hovercraft idea would be an amazing feat, but what is the durability of the skirt? I think we all know how much our robots get beat up in matches.

Robert Cawthon 24-12-2008 10:58
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
How would you attach the (probably) required regulation bumpers on the hovercraft?

Daniel_LaFleur 24-12-2008 11:25
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBIT (Post 786771)
The only downside to this design is trying to obtain enough lift and propulsion with the voltage put out by the batteries, but i agree if a team could pull it off it would be pretty cool...
Lift and propulsion is easy. Less than 1 PSID is needed between the underside of the robot and the topside. Propulsion is even easier once lift is attained as traction goes way down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Dinsmoor (Post 786803)
The hovercraft idea would be an amazing feat, but what is the durability of the skirt? I think we all know how much our robots get beat up in matches.
There are many excellent fabrics that (such as multi layered Kevlar) that would be very suitable and wear resistant. You'd need to design the cloth pattern for the skirt properly and you might want to weigh down the bottom to prevent the cloth from not unfurling properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cawthon (Post 786914)
How would you attach the (probably) required regulation bumpers on the hovercraft?
Attaching the bumpers is easy, the question would be if the bumpers must stay in the "bumper zone" during play. If so then they would have to either articulate or would have to be positioned so that your cushion height does not move them out of the "bumper zone". Gotta love engineering challanges :D

Bsteckler 27-12-2008 21:04
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Didn't the rule regarding bumpers specify that only standard ones could be exempted from the dimensions? Not to say that rule will show up again, but the skirt could probably be considered a "nonstandard bumper" and there wouldn't be a problem with the size, since it would be bundled up either on the sides or on the bottom of the robot.

Daniel_LaFleur 28-12-2008 10:04
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsteckler (Post 787553)
Didn't the rule regarding bumpers specify that only standard ones could be exempted from the dimensions? Not to say that rule will show up again, but the skirt could probably be considered a "nonstandard bumper" and there wouldn't be a problem with the size, since it would be bundled up either on the sides or on the bottom of the robot.
Lat year 'standard' bumpers were required.

This year ... well, we'll find out in 6 days :D

Tottanka 10-01-2009 09:41
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
This thread is kinda funny now after kickoff :D

smurfgirl 10-01-2009 10:40
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tottanka (Post 797444)
This thread is kinda funny now after kickoff :D
Yes, it is. ;)

I know what wheels I'd use... they came in the kit, but I bet we'll be the only robot with them. I don't think people realize just how innovative they are, and they may overlook them when designing their robots ;)

Pokemonking 23-01-2009 19:09
Re: HDPE or ICE FLOOR
 
Hdpe , they gave you wheels to start with :ahh:


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