Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

Perhaps it's just my personality, but if I see a top list of whatever and I'm not on it, I consider that a challenge. :cool:

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

That was definitely the first thought I had.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

[Warning] Long and irritated post follows.[/Warning]

Listen, you guys. I don't know how many were invited to join the "panel". It may be that only six were. It may be that 20+ were. What matters is that 6 people, for reasons known to them and only to them, have said that these are the top 25 teams in FRC right now. We haven't even seen the game yet!

If you think that a particular team isn't on the list and should be, then I have only this to say: I think that the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology Hardrockers (football, basketball, track, cross-country, and volleyball) should be ranked #1 in the BCS, AP poll, or whatever poll you use for the given sport. Haven't heard of them? That's too bad.[/sarcasm]

You can say that any team should be on any list. In the example above, the football team only has a 5-5 record, and last year and the year before I won't go into. I'm not sure about any of the other sports. They aren't in the top divisions for a reason.

rtfgnow, FF is about the awards won. You're right about that. But when, might I ask, are the picks for Season Long made and what is the basis for them? Which teams go first when it's an actual pick? The ones on this list, more often than not!

To hear from six-seven people that you aren't in the top 25 is just to hear from six-seven people that you aren't in the top 25. If your teammates say "We should be number 1", and outside observers say "Not even close", you have a choice: 1) moan and cry about not being where you think you should be OR 2) get out there and do what it takes to be #1 better than the current #1. It's that simple.

It may be (who knows) that one or more persons who made the list had a given team on their list, but others did not and that team flew under the radar. Or there simply wasn't room for them.

It's not who is on the list, it's not who is off the list, it's what you do/did to be on the list that matters.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

If people really do feel like crap after reading this, I think they ought to re-evaluate their priorities, toughen up, or both. Lists like this aren't made to make anyone feel bad, and if your team isn't on the list, so what? Only 1.5% of the teams in FRC are on the list, so pretty much everyone else isn't on the list either.

If it bothers you, try your hardest to make your way onto that list, but really being in the "top 25" isn't the point of FIRST, so this whole discussion is kind of moot.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

I have a list of every ORANGE team in FIRST.

Its a very exclusive club.

And most of you will never be in it. :cool:

Ha!

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

Just one phrase is missing from the original post, that was included when "Looking Forward" did a similar thing for the championship last year

Not on the list? Feel you aren't even close? Work at it! Just one slight catch: As you work to develop a program capable of turning out robots year after year to rival these teams, you might just also inspire your students, create a great experience for everyone involved, and gain recognition for your efforts to promote science and technology. Hey, that sounds a bit like FIRST's goals! And it sure seemed to happen to every one of these teams, and many others.


And that, my friends, is what I Love about FIRST

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

Here is 'some' objective data for this topic.

My goal was to see how accurate the ranking was to actual team performance.

Criteria:
- Used Andrew Schreiber database to obtain team data.
- Count = Sum of Chairmans, Champion, and Finalist Medals.
- Teams ranked by Count Since 2005, then Count since 2008, then Overall team metal count.

Started with the Top25 list...as I researched those teams I added in any teams that jumped out or I was interested in seeing how they compared.

Not all teams are included, and I am sure there are teams missing from this data. Feel free to update or post additional data.

*Couldn't find data on 64, so 39th Aero is not fully represented.*

Obviously FIRST is not all about winning competitions, but I have never seen our students more inspired and excited about participating in this program than when a machine they helped design, build, and operate has just won a competition.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

I like that list lol :D

and on that list, you would have the 2008 Colorado Regional winning alliance!

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

I'm not going to be scared to admit that I was one of the 6 voters. On the other hand, the list that got posted did differ a lot from the one I submitted. (Obviously understandable with 1/6th of the vote). If you'd like to see my ballot, let me know.

If you disagree with the list, then email or PM Josh and tell him you'd like to participate in voting. If you recall, he made a post earlier asking for people who would like to participate. If you find yourself disagreeing with the list, then help to make it better. There are over 1500 teams and only 25 make the list (1.7%).

Also keep in mind that this is a preseason list. If I recall correctly, we will be re-ranking teams before the week 1 regionals.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

I love the idea and I think he gives a lot better explinations then lets say the BCS does of there picks for the top 25. Plus, I donno bout evryone else but I love watching huge upsets (cept App. State), like Michigan beating Duke and UCLA so if you somebody is a little upset, do something about it, nobodys place is solidified on the list and I would love to see a rookie team end up in the top ten by the end of the year. Personally I'd rather have the target be taken off of our back.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

If people feel bad about themselves after not seeing their team on the list then you need to consider something. If you were one of the voters would you really put your team ahead of any of the teams on the list? I love my team as much as the next person but I realize that we are not consistently at the level of the teams on this list.

I think this list is fun little thing to look at and once we see some robots I think the list will change. Just have fun with it, don't take it to seriously.

I hope everyone has a great FRC season!!

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

Well, this is good for us, considering our robot didn't go one match in Eruption without something important breaking. Hopefully we can improve a little.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

How about a google map of the locations of the Top 25 teams? It would be very interesting to see this.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

I made a Google map after your suggestion, because I was actually very curious to see what it would turn out like. Here it is:
Top 25 Map

There is certainly a big cluster on the western coastal area of Lake Michigan and then another big cluster on the eastern side of Michigan border/ the Canadian area.

Re: FRC Top 25- Preseason Ranking
 

It's a learning curve. Many rookie teams and some veterans are happy just to be able complete the build and prepare for the pending competition(s). As veteran teams mature then their aspirations mature with them, change with them. Rookie teams and 1st and 2nd year teams can have break-out years in some areas, true - but it takes growth, development, and constant awareness/vigilance to become strong in all the areas of the FRC competition.

With regard to some of the blanket statements I read about 'FIRST is not about winning' - it makes me think of the Recognition part of FIRST that isn't talked about much. It is thrown in with the whole shibang but I rarely see it discussed by itself. Recognition plays a big part: recognizing achievements, successes, attitude, wins, reputations, career paths, innovations, developments and initiatives. It can also be about how the teams/individuals have garnered their achievements/successes.

Nothing comes easy in FRC, from finding sponsors through finding mentors through sticking with a budget, time line, game plan. All of it takes a lot work, a lot of thought, a lot of team effort. If there are a small group of people who put together a poll ranking teams, I'm sure they are taking all of this into consideration.

Also, this is CD. It is an informal poll, created by, again, a small group of people, who care about teams and value achievements. I'm not big on just looking at the FRC competitions through a sports lens, I think that limits/narrows the possibilities and opportunities of the FRC community but I can see that it creates an easy handle for young people and to an extent, marketing the competitions/program.