Chief Delphi

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   FRC Control System (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=176)
-   -   Power Distribution - Low current breakers or fuses? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70990)

Al Skierkiewicz 02-01-2009 15:39

Re: Power Distribution - Low current breakers or fuses?
 
For anyone questioning last years rules, the fuses were allowed on custom circuit boards for local protection but the custom circuit itself needed to be protected by a 20 amp breaker. Why a breaker, because the rules don't allow you to run out on the field during a match and replace a blown fuse.
As others have pointed out, the GDC is aware of the complications of using smaller wire and smaller breakers. However, we will know tomorrow if they will allow something less than 20 amps and #18 wire.

DonRotolo 02-01-2009 16:59

Re: Power Distribution - Low current breakers or fuses?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diviney (Post 789323)
This statement appears in <R45>: "In addition to the required branch power circuit breakers, smaller value fuses or breakers
may be incorporated into custom circuits for additional protection".

Yes, and that's what R82-84 implies: So long as you start with a KOP breaker, you feed it to your custom circuit (which can have a fuse holder, holding a small fuse). If the 2008 rules were in force, I'd get a bunch of the Keystone fuse clips and build a distributor (a custom circuit in its own right) for my custom circuits, or buy one as COTS - I'd ask for an interpretation of R45 for that case, since it is pretty clear in what it says.

On a related subject: When proper fusing is not an option, the next step is an FMEA analysis, and take actions to address the modes that could impact current draw. The goal is then to limit the damage that overcurrent could cause. In such cases I might employ teflon insulated wire to handle the heat, manage the heat (forced cooling for the wire), protect the wire from damage, or something like that. In some cases, protecting the wiring is sufficient as the circuit is intrinsically current-limited.

diviney 02-01-2009 23:39

Re: Power Distribution - Low current breakers or fuses?
 
Don:

A FMEA... Interesting thought. Perhaps this thought could turn me around into thinking a 20 amp breaker can be "safe" even with a control circuit using "light gauge" wire.

The worrisome failure mode in this case is a wiring short. The PD specs indicate that the Wago connection to the VB3 breakers can accept AWG10-24. If we were to use AWG 22 wiring as suggested on the diagram on page 13 of section 3, then you would worry about the wire fusing. Although 20 Amps is well above where you should operate a 22 gauge wire, it's fusing current is roughly 40 amps (well, this depends on a lot of things, but hey, you sort of have a 100% safety margin above the breaker trip point). I suppose you could envision a partial short failure such that you drew 20 amps constantly (not enough to trip the breaker, or fuse the wire, but could cause dangerous heating rather quickly while something tries to dissipate the resulting 240 watts). This is much less likely than a full short however.

Maybe you wouldn't use AWG 24 however because it's fusing current is more like 29 amps (only a 50% margin). AWG22 or heavier sounds like it may be reasonable safe...

If you look at the VB3 performance curves, these breakers will take around a second to trip at 200% of the rated current. I would think that the wire would take significantly more than a second to fuse, although it would be interesting to perform some tests to see. Our students would probably love to do some experiments which resulted in sparks and smoke (in a very tightly monitored and safe way of course) to explore this !!!

Of course the self-resetting breaker will repeatedly stress the wire as it tries and tries to recover. The VB3 data sheet states "less than 15 seconds" to reset.

Let's see what the official rules say tomorrow. It is quite likely they will say the same thing as last year, but we don't have to wait much longer to find out.

-Tom


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:44.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi