Chief Delphi - UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

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UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

All bolding is mine.

This is R26:

Quote:

During the period between the shipment of the ROBOT and the competitions: During this period, all teams may manufacture SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, and develop software for their ROBOT at their home facility.
A.
Teams may manufacture all the SPARE, REPLACEMENT and UPGRADE PARTS they want.
B.
There is no limit to the amount of time that may be put into this effort, other than via the realities of the calendar.
C.
Teams may continue development of any items retained under the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE, continue to work on them during this period, and then bring them to the competition events.
D.
The total weight of the FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE items) worked upon during this period and brought to the competition event(s) must not exceed the limits specified in Rule <R36>.

Upgrade part definition:

Quote:

UPGRADE PARTS - A COMPONENT or MECHANISM intended to provide additional functionality not currently available on the ROBOT. UPGRADE PARTS may be COTS items or custom FABRICATED ITEMS, and may either add to or replace existing functionality.

This is R36:

Quote:

Teams may bring a maximum of 40 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and UPGRADE PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE items) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

The combination of these three rules seem to imply that a team could work on their game piece (or anything, really) after the robot ships, so long as it weighs less than 40lbs. They can also work on their software to an unlimited extent. Although the stated intent of R26 is so that teams can familiarize themselves with the control system, it seems that a side effect is that teams can also work on a 40lb subset of their robot to an unlimited extent.

Do people agree with this interpretation? Is this a problem?

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongle (Post 789754)

All bolding is mine. ... and a color change by me

...
This is R36:

Teams may bring a maximum of 40 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and UPGRADE PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE items) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

that "upgrade" word seems to agree with your assessment. They're giving us more time to play with our systems.

Teams with "late" regionals will have plenty of time to iron out control systems and/or software ... but the bulk of the bot is the real 6-week deadline now.

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

I was very confused when i first read this, and it took me awhile to understand it, at least i think i do. it seems very unfair to team like my own, who are doing a regional in both of the first two weeks. although i guess all other teams with that schedule have the same time. but the difference in available time between first week and last week regionals seems like it could make a major difference.

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

It seems to me that the cRIO, not being fabricated, must be shipped with the robot. How, then, is one to work on software to any real extent? (Assuming a team cannot afford a second cRIO...)

Patrick

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfreivald (Post 790072)

It seems to me that the cRIO, not being fabricated, must be shipped with the robot. How, then, is one to work on software to any real extent? (Assuming a team cannot afford a second cRIO...)

Patrick

The last paragraph of R26 says

The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems, and access them after the shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have maximum time ... to develop and complete software.

The controller would qualify as a withholding allowance item in R36.

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacoliketaco (Post 789885)

I don't think it is necessarily a disadvantage because you'll be competing against teams who had the exact same amount of time as you did to familiarize yourself with the components. Scores between the first two weeks and the last weeks will not be directly comparable, but they never are due to changes in strategy and upgrades teams perform at the competition.

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

True, although teams with later regionals may be at a bit more of an advantage since they could "upgrade" their robot with more sophisticated parts or additional parts to perform the tasks. (learned from watching footage leaked from other competitions) At the same time, they'd be at a disadvantage since they would only be able to test the driving code, since the manipulator would be on the shipped robot...

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBrown (Post 790309)

I was looking for something like that in the WITHOLDING ALLOWANCE rules, and couldn't find it. Thanks!

And *phew!*

Patrick

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

havent teams been doing this from before... just walk around the pits on thursday and you can see this happeneing all the time, i've been on teams that didn't care for the Fix it rule, this rule was made based on trust. and because many teams already would break this rule, maybe the GDC didn't find this rule nessassary anymore.

just my $0.02

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

does this include extra parts like to give other teams? cause my team always brings spare motors, wheels (maybe not this year), switches, and other various parts in case another team needs one. would that in theory limit us to the specified weight for all extra parts?

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

So, you can keep your drivetrain as long as it is the only 40 pound thing you bring to comps. This is based on a q&a response. Or am i horrible wrong?

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3H_K3YM45T3R (Post 793050)

All the items you've listed here are COTS items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by <R35>

Teams may acquire and bring an unlimited amount of COTS items to the competitions to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site.

Re: UPGRADE PARTS, R26, and R36: A build season without end?

It does not entirely make sense to put limits that are not measurable. We all go by the standards of Gracious Professionalism but who is to say mistakes don't happen? Besides, working with the control system this year is going to be quite a task especially for teams with fewer resources. Painful hours of installation and tricky configuration and then only you finally get to the code - which hopefully get easier as we go on. We would see way too many dead robots on the field this year so this is a good move to give teams a chance. Also, considering the economy, many mentors don't have all the time they want to dedicate so working on their own schedule is a plus for them.

Plus, FIRST is not about the game right - this is just a process that fuels inspiration and excitement about science and engineering. Always keep that in mind. You are supposed to have fun with this process.