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robot design question
so, we're trying to figure out if it's legal to design the bot so part of the trailer would be within the robot's dimensions, kind of like something between a fork. Can't find anything in the rules. Help?
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Re: robot design question
<R18> To attach the TRAILER to the ROBOT, TEAMS must use a Trailer Hitch constructed from
materials provided in the 2009 Kit Of Parts. Details on the construction of the Trailer Hitch are provided in Drawing “GE-09040.” There it is, so if your design includes that then I don't think it's a violation. |
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Just found this too:
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<r18> section D says outer edge, technically the inside of a bracket would be inside edge, thus illegal.
oh well. |
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Oh w8 look at this: Quote:
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i'll try and get a 3d image of what i'm talking about.
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The dimensions of the trailer with bumpers range from approximately 34" (distance between midpoints of opposite sides) to 39" (distance between opposite corners). This would make it near-impossible to fit within a U-shape, as each side of the U could only be 2 inches wide.
Also note that the trailer tongue protrudes about 10" from the trailer, so you would not be able to achieve a tight fit. |
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Re: robot design question
![]() image is top view, and not to scale completely, but you get the general idea. The question is "Is this legal?". In so far as what constitutes an "outside" edge. The rule's not completely unambiguious about this. Can parts of the robot "wrap around" the trailer so to speak? Would we be allowed to make a design that limits the lateral movement, through the placement of the hitch alone and no other modifications, of the trailer, assuming that trailer to robot contact is still going to be bumper-to-bumper? EDIT: also, this design won't ever see field time, I kinda wanna keep the real one hidden, so just imagine that the trailer isn't as engulfed as it is here. The same questions apply, though. |
Re: robot design question
I've been doodling that all day with a scale and dimentions, and with the size restrictions, its possible, but hard. If you do, as you sketched, you're in the clear, but there is a rule about the trailed bumper and your robot 's contact, its clearly stated in <R18>.
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Alright. |
Re: robot design question
I think what you are talking about is this. (16"x36" contact base)
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The red areas are the "blocking spaces where balls can't be thrown. All measurements are ballpark (within 1-2" accurate, Proof of Concept) The robot fits in the "box" and hugs at least half of the trailer. Weight issues might be a problem, but if you make the shroud light enough and place the batteries and heavy stuff in front you might be OK. |
Re: robot design question
A neat design, nice drafting in the short time since kickoff.
My $0.02 is that with such a design, and the way it effectively eats your entire size envelope, you cant hopper up the balls to bring them to your human players more effectively, and you can't really fit a launcher in there either, meaning two key ways of scoring are severely hindered... not sure if its a net gain or not. EDIT: also, the CoG being off center like that could make you easily tippable/have problems with moving on this already difficult to move on surface. Furthermore, strategies like this will just make the human players go for your teammates goals, since they're wide open they're more likely to score there, rendering the protection they give more or less redundant. |
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Is 2/3 of the BUMPER PERIMETER enclosed by bumpers? I think so, if the short pieces are at least 6". BUMPER PERIMETER is defined by the outermost corners of the robot. The "outer" location for the trailer hitch is not defined. |
Re: robot design question
I see one problem with this design concept with the way I am reading R11.
The width is defined as a max of 28 at the start and during the match. The way I am reading this rule, you can't construct a 'wide-body' robot. Does anyone else see this the same way I do? "<R11>At the start of, and during, the MATCH the ROBOT shall fit within the dimensions listed below: Width Maximum 28 inches (71.12cm) Depth Maximum 38 inches (96.52cm) Height Maximum 60 inches (152.40cm) Weight Maximum 120 pounds (54.43Kg)" |
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Is width and depth defined in any particular direction relative to the robot travel?
Rule <R80> defines width and depth in the opposite directions for the driver station, 60" wide by 12" deep. |
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I was comparing to the language from the 2008 manual, where R11 reads: "Prior to the beginning of the MATCH, the ROBOT shall be placed in a STARTING CONFIGURATION that fits within the dimensions listed below: (with the exact same chart as this year)" It seems to me the language in that opening sentence this year may be more restrictive to what length and depth are, not just restricting the overall size of the robot during the match. Perhaps it's a good question for Q&A. |
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So even if the front of the robot is defined as the narrow side, the rules don't seem to make you put that front facing away from the trailer. |
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I don't yet disagree, necessarily, but I'm trying to find a reason to. :) |
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I think the main obstacle to a design like this is how the GDC is going to define the "outer edge" of the robot. If they go with the convex hull sytle definition of the BUMPER PERIMETER, then all the easiest designs (seen above) are illegal. Then you'll have to come up with an even tinier robot that captures the trailer via the PVC pipes, or some support bars that articulate out from your robot when the match starts.
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Re: robot design question
what program did u use to draw that? it seems really useful (msg 13)
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Re: robot design question
The design would appear to be legal as you have bumper to bumper contact not bumper to trailer toung contace.
Keep in mind that with this configuration when you turn you will be sliding the trailer wheels sideways. Depending on the weight of the trailer your turning ability could be severely constricted. We are considering a similar design but not for the trailer but for loading balls into the other teams trailers. This assumes we are fast and agile enough and to catch the other team. |
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Is the trailer hitch apart of the robot dimensions?
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"A. BUMPERS must be built in segments, with a minimum length of six inches, ..." "C. Each BUMPER segment must be backed by a piece of 3/4-inch thick by 5-inch tall piece of plywood." "J. Corners and joints between BUMPER segments may be filled with short pieces of vertically oriented pool noodle, by wrapping the pool noodles around the corners, or by beveling the ends between adjacent segments so they form a tight and complete protective surface (see Figure 8 – 2)." So foam can extend beyond the ends of the plywood to protect a robot corner, but the plywood must back up the entire bumper segment length. And, maybe to answer my previous question, Figure 8-6 in the trailer hitch rule seems to show a wide-front robot. But then, the trailers in that figure aren't regular hexagons either, so maybe it's just a distorted drawing. |
IS THE "HITCH" PART OF THE ROBOTS DEMENSIONS
OUR TEAM IS WONDERING IF THE HITCH IS PART OF THE ROBOTS DIMENSTION?
ANY INFORMATION ON THAT WOULD BE USEFUL.....THANK YOU:D |
Re: IS THE "HITCH" PART OF THE ROBOTS DEMENSIONS
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And it is not listed as being specifically excluded under <R11> A; therefore it is included. Plan accordingly. |
Re: robot design question
As far as I read the rules,
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Although *hint hint* you may consider alternative orientations of the robot for more coverage! |
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