Re: Team Update #1
 

Sorry 233, http://frcdirector.blogspot.com/

"3) Don’t spend time attempting to develop a vacuum car system like Jim Hall’s sucker Chaparral car. Even a slight suction over the base of the robot will damage the field surface and you don’t want to do that (See the 2009 FIRST Robotics Competition Manual section 7 rules G-29 & G-30)"

We were thinking the same thing, to bad we can't do it.

Re: Team Update #1
 

Thank's very much for clueing me in. We can now apply full effort to other things, like picking up and shooting balls, rather than looking for the ideal leaf blower/shop vac/ whatever, and coming up with a configuration for the "skirt" for the base of the robot. It seemed like a fun, and worthwhile concept to pursue for this game. Oh well.

Re: Team Update #1
 

I'm surprised nobody seems upset about the descoring issue. I've wasted 2 unpaid days heading in that direction.. Where do I send the bill? I don't see how this game is affected much by the robots. The human players will have the trailers half full by the end of autonomous. So now we're trying to fight over a few supercells and a few moonrocks the whole match? not to mention if we want a decent drive system, we're left with barely any room (within the bumper perimiter) to pick up balls. It seems like they want a tie every match regardless of effort. Sorry but I'm really dissapointed with this one...

Re: Team Update #1
 

Have you built a trailer and tried to get orbit balls in? It's hard. Really freakin' hard. I'm not much of a basketball player, but I couldn't get them in when the goal was 10 feet away, yet alone moving all over the place! Up until this point I think we've really really over-estimated the human players ability to score. You've got to hit an area marginally larger than the ball itself. Sure, if a robot sits still in autonomous, there most of the 20 will make it in. If a robot dies near the other alliances Human Player, most of the 20 will go in. Barring that, the humans will be really really ineffective.

Re: Team Update #1
 

You truely believe that your human player will be able to get 10 shots off in 15 seconds and get them all in over a 6 1/2 foot tall barrier and on a moving target? Consistantly?

I think you seriously have overestimated your human players capabilities ... unless his name is Larry Bird.

Re: Team Update #1
 

I've explored the descoring topic a bit on my own, and I haven't really found a really good way even before this prohibition...though remember, marketing major.

No intelligent team will go through an event without at least an attempt at a dumb run-the-heck-away-from-here routine. I don't know whether we'll see much robot-on-robot scoring in autonomous, but I could picture a fun round of jockeying for position--imagine a couple of robots double-teaming an opponent back into the corner, near-ideal conditions to let the human players pick a few off. (Or the same idea could bolster a partner's attempt to score a few balls autonomously.)

I fully expect things to remain quite interesting.

Re: Team Update #1
 

Um. No. They specifically ruled out Chapparell style sucking devices.

Re: Team Update #1
 

Um, no, they didn't. Jim, who may be on the GDC but is not the rulebook, stated that they are illegal because they damage the floor. I honestly don't see where he's coming from-perhaps skirts too low might scratch the floor, or something. But if you don't damage the floor, there is nothing illegal about those systems.

Re: Team Update #1
 

I think you mean Bill.

Incidentally, the GDC is the Supreme Court of FRC right now. (They are also the Legislature and the executive branch.) So if one of them says something about a rule, you might want to listen up. If Bill posts something, I'm willing to bet that it's also the opinion of the rest of the GDC.

Re: Team Update #1
 

Man, the fact that you have to stay within the vertical projection of the bumpers really inhibits the ability to create an effective dumper... you have to get the balls going about 4 inches from the dumping mechanism in order for them to actually land in the trailer. I actually had a really long discussion with a mentor about using a rotating hatch, similar to the mail deposits where you pull down on the handle insert the letter and gravity causes the letter to fall into the box when closed again, but in reverse. The idea was that when retracted, contact would indeed stay in the bumper zone, but it would extend beyond that for just a second to unload balls, and now that idea's moot. </rant>.

Re: Team Update #1
 

I've about decided that it will be illegal, because if used effectively, it would lift the thin, slick stuff from the floor. I'll be following this pretty closely, though.

Re: Team Update #1
 

Just to clear my mind.... The robot can still pick up balls as long as the ball picker remains inside the starting configuation.

Re: Team Update #1
 

Pulling a 1 PSI vacuum over a 20"x20" section will produce 400LBS of force pulling on all surfaces (Ideal gas laws). As such, while your robot may see a 400 LB gain in nominal downward force, you will also create a 400LB nominal upward force on the flooring which is only 0.090" thick plastic. This, most likely, will cause the floor to bow or even break.

We, too, were considering pulling a vacuum below the robot to increase our traction. We decided to wait on this strategy until we knew whether or not the floor could take such abuse ... apparently it cannot :(

Re: Team Update #1
 

Maybe, I hadn't really thought of that. I'm not really sure how the Glasliner is placed on the carpet-I can't imagine they just drop it on and leave it at that, because it would take far less than a fan to dislodge it then. Does anyone know how they're going to make the playing surface?

Re: Team Update #1
 

I don't know yet. I've heard that they don't know either. Next up for the GDC field guys: How on earth do we attach the Regolith?

I'm sure something will come out and (hopefully) be released to teams eventually.