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Re: GDC you have failed us.
Every year we see posts like this in the first week saying how bad the game will be, or how unfair that rule will be... and then everyone goes out and has a good time.
Teams will note that it has been mentioned several times that a clean, waxed linoleum floor (gee... don't suppose there are any of those available in schools...) will be a quite suitable stand in for the playing field material. Aside from that, you are right... the great teams in FRC will probably continue to be great teams. That is because they have great people who embrace the challenge rather than whine about it. And thank goodness there are powerhouse teams out there... they set a great example and inspire the rest of us to greater heights. Jason |
Re: GDC you have failed us.
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So the video you posted in support of your argument is actually is a dispute of your arument. |
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I have to say, I quite like this year's game. Makes me wish I still was in FIRST, but well, 3 years into college and I don't even have time to help mentor a team. You do know the changes in F1 were done to help level the playing field for new teams? Same reason why WRC went to S2000 rules. Reduce cost and complexity for new teams to emerge. Same concept with the 2009 game. I do agree with you about the limiting of innovation, but only for motorsports. That's a whole story in itself, but with FIRST it's totally different. In the past FIRST has only really banned specific innovations because it's not safe or it's causing problems (like the use of filecards for traction in 2002, and the entanglement rule). It's true that racing teams have to spend countless hours on engine dynos and windtunnels to extract milliseconds off of lap times, but that's because motorsports technology is quite advanced and has reached a peak. The competition has been the same for year on end, you race a car around a track. With most large technological innovations already discovered, it's going to take a lot of work to produce a significantly less amount of achievement... basically technological advancement is reaching the peak of it's curve where more work equals less result. But it's different with FIRST, the game changes every year. More so with this year, as mentioned above they've pretty much wiped the slate clean. If anything this competition will give rookie teams more of a chance to catch up. For years there has been more or less a "right" way to build a drivetrain (take 254 for example, or I guess what's called the west coast drivetrain). That 6wd platform has been serving many teams well, which is great. But this game has nerfed it, quite a bit. I can see making some people unhappy because well, now they have to redesign their drivetrain. But that's part of the challenge right? Everyone else has to redesign their drivetrain, no one has the advantage of a knowing how to build and execute a battle hardened system, so I see that as lessening the advantage gap between the veteran teams and the rookie teams. It's undeniable that veteran teams will always have some advantage over a rookie team, but this applies everywhere. Just be happy that this is FIRST, where veteran teams are willing to help rookie teams that ask for help. In professional motorsports it's not as nice. Ultimately, in my opinion. It's great that FIRST has managed to close the gap between this advantage without stomping on too many people's toes. I noticed that someone mentioned in a different thread about a lack of defense. Defense is fun alright, being destructive in a legitimate way is always entertaining but well, that's not very challenging, haha. Defense isn't really gone, I think FIRST has just been doing what they've been trying to do and make it less of a contact-ordeal and more of a strategic defense ordeal. Lastly I don't really see the significant advantage with a swerve drive system, especially in the video posted. The competition trailer has fixed wheels for starters, along with a lot more weight. The threads posting about tank steering having problems is only an advisory that using old methods is no longer going to cut it, goes back to what I tried to explain above. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Anyways wow that was a big mess, sorry... For those who managed to read through it all I applaud you. For those who managed to read and understand it... well I guess I can give you a pat on the back. |
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For what it's worth, though, it is possible that they are not actually rotating the crab modules in that video. |
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Re: GDC you have failed us.
OK,
The video is merely showing one robot driving around on a large surface of the material used in this year's game. Thanks to one of our parents for having a few pieces stored in his shop from a previous project. The robot shown has crab (because we had one that used the same wheel mounts as this year) but everyone must understand, this is day three driving and practice has not even begun to make a dent in driving performance. Of course the trailer is not competition because we (like you) are prototyping to understand the dynamics of the floor and the movements of a robot with trailer attached. This is using an IFI control system with no code modifications. We used a heavy steel drum dolly with sticky wheels to simulate the weight and charachteristics of a trailer bolted to the frame. And to be sure, we are not giving out hints to our design, it's only Day three! We are still brainstorming. The GDC has made a simple game a challenge by the selection of floor surface that is the real challenge. The same challenge all of us face. We don't know if crab will be an advantage or if tank drive will win out. Since manipulators that extend away from the robot are not allowed (see Team Update 1) then teams that are good at manipulator design won't have an advantage. This game is about the best level field I have seen in 14 games and I love that human players are more part of the equation. I will make this prediction (begging forgiveness from the Great Car Nack) teams that will do well will have practiced like crazy. As the adage goes... "How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, Practice, Practice!" |
Re: GDC you have failed us.
The part of that video that Everyone is over looking is the Trailer, They are pulling a trailer with CASTERS, they don't have a fixed wheeled trailer. Wait until you see the first video with a fixed wheeled trailer and crab drive, they will have trouble because their entire program will be messed up because the fixed wheeled trailer is a whole different ball game, The will lose the ability to back up over a foot with any accuracy because the trailer will jack knife after a foot.
Yes they were running a tank drive i believe, the crab modules didn't move. But when they drive tank drive they steer the right and left independently. |
Re: GDC you have failed us.
I find the challenges this year intriguing.
How do you coordinate with your teammates task-wise? Defense, offense, supercells? That will require many different auton options and start locations. How do maximize your driving potential? Practice. ABS. Traction Control. Weight distribution. How do you minimize people scoring on you? Strategy while driving. Do you focus on stuffing someone in a corner so your human can score? Even just a drivetrain robot will be able to interfere and slow others down. No... I see a game with infinite intricacies. I'm hoping that the more competitive regionals result in a bunch of robots driving around with camera focussed turrets firing balls like machine guns. It's like halo on ice.... |
Re: GDC you have failed us.
I see 111's video itself as inspiring...though we won't ever have the chance to put our hybrid drive train against theres unless we see them in Atlanta. Rookie teams will always be rookie teams no matter what -- most will be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of data that's out there for solving the game. A few of those will understand that for the moment, simple is better. It's expected, and has always been as 'level' of a playing field as the GDC can hope for with Rookies.
For the rest of us, we can get creative to come up with inexpensive, simple solutions to drive around on this surface, so that's what we should do. My team has taken on a huge challenge of a somewhat new, radical drive train that's only been seen once in FRC before. I didn't present the idea to them until January 3rd at about 7pm. Every day we question ourselves on whether we've made the right decision, but then at the end of every day I relax knowing that we've solved every problem the drive train design has given us with a simple solution. Had the GDC not forced a wacky field into this game, I seriously doubt the other lead mentors on our team would have ever been motivated to try something that wasn't simple or easy to do for a drive train. So to me, the GDC has surpassed my expectations. |
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I consider Overdrive to have been a much harder game for rookies and low-tier teams then Lunacy will be.
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