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-   -   GDC you have failed us. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71448)

Tetraman 07-01-2009 11:30

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfgirl (Post 794763)
Just curious, but what's the reasoning behind that?

I think Overdrive is harder to design for then Lunacy because the game piece size, robot size constraints, auto-mode/remote-mote, and the general movement of robots.

In Lunacy, the balls are smaller, an auto-mode is easier to have (just moving around is just as good as anything), and the movement of robots is not as constrained as it was in Overdrive.

I don't believe that a slick playing surface is such a huge obstacle to leap over.

Andy Grady 07-01-2009 12:28

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
It's pretty simple...the more restrictions and deeper into the unknown you go, the greater and more interesting the challenge is to find that one "edge" that will set you apart from everyone else.

In other words...game on! Focus!

Mr. Freeman 07-01-2009 13:09

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
I see that someone removed the youtube video. What's the reasoning for this? I was looking forward to seeing footage of a robot on a competition type floor with the provided wheels.
I understand that it's not the official trailer, not official weight, etc. But at this point, most teams have absolutely no idea how anything will handle with the wheels and floor any footage is helpful.

This is the one problem I had with the game this year. No floor pieces were shipped with the KOP. I mean, even a 6 inch square sample would have been useful, as it currently stands, teams have to drop a huge amount of money to get any type of practice or even driving characteristics. Changing the floor was a good idea, failing to ship any type of representative sample of the floor was a horrible one.

dlavery 07-01-2009 19:13

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp_child (Post 794316)
I keep hearing people say that the GDC has leveled the playing field this year, however I feel this is simply not true. While it is true that we are playing on a totally different surface, there are still many, many aspects a rookie team will not be able to over come.
As wildstang demonstrates in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS_I0cRmGIE) there is still going to be a huge advantage to anyone who has a crab drive system, perhaps this year more than ever (as discussed in another thread simple tank drive is going to have tons of problems this year). Additionally we are starting with a whole new programming platform, however this platform was beta tested by many teams, all of which are many year veteran teams.
I could rant on for quite a while about this, and if anyone wants me to expand upon any of my points, go ahead and ask, and I'll do my best to explain. But come on people this game isn't leveling anything, if anything it's just broadening the gulf between the vets and rookies.


I do have to ask: why are you so convinced that the GDC was attempting to "level the playing field"? (insert obvious joke about the Regolith being a largely level surface here). I do not recall any statement uttered during the kick-off broadcast or written anywhere in the rules that made that claim. All those that are so critical of the "Lunacy" game just 96 hours after it was unveiled seem to be making some rather large assumptions about the explicit and implicit intent behind the game design. I can tell you that some of those publicly stated assumptions (including those concerning the rationale behind Rule <G14>) are just flat out wrong. Perhaps there were reasons other than "leveling the playing field" (insert second obvious joke about the Regolith being a largely level surface here) that might have affected the design of the game? Maybe the obvious interpretation is not the only interpretation. Or even a correct one.

And in that same period - a period in which NO ONE has actually built their competition robot, in which NO ONE has characterized the actual performance of their competition robot, in which NO ONE has played even one actual competition match - those same people are able to make deterministic statements about the overall quality of the game and how "good" it is.

Perhaps rather than an open ended rant based on incomplete information and unfounded speculation, what is really needed here is for everyone to just relax for a moment. Take a deep breath and ponder the possibility "hmmmm.... I wonder if there might be OTHER reasons that could explain why the game is designed the way it is? Perhaps the obvious inferences are not the only ones? Maybe I better think about this a little more...." Or, if you don't want to do that, maybe just forget about the "why" for a while, and just focus on designing and building a kick-bot robot to play the game and having some fun. Relax. Take a deep breath. Have fun. Go build something. Inspire us.

Just a thought....

-dave



.

waialua359 07-01-2009 19:23

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Thanks Dave.

As I had posted previously wondering the same thing, I didnt see how the GDC was making an attempt to level the playing field.......as it wasn't mentioned anywhere. The leveling occurs when we collaborate and make it a point to meet new teams and study other robot designs both past and present. Heck, that 2006 AIM High book is the best "bible" out there right now.:yikes:
If you factor everything to consider, the hurdles/challenges imposed this year affects everyone, veteran or rookie,....right?? :D :D

Tetraman 07-01-2009 19:56

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 795184)
-dave

Can I be apart of the GDC next year? /selfish plug

JesseK 07-01-2009 20:07

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetraman (Post 795208)
Can I be apart of the GDC next year? /selfish plug

Theoretically, we may or may not be apart of the GDC every May when Dave solicits game ideas from us on these forums.

Tetraman 07-01-2009 20:18

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 795217)
Theoretically, we may or may not be apart of the GDC every May when Dave solicits game ideas from us on these forums.

That reminds me:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=13

Number 4: If I would like to see anything interesting happen to the competitions, I would want to see a floor change.

bduddy 08-01-2009 01:49

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 794517)
And then, aside from all that, you shouldn't criticize the GDC for rules that are merely affecting gameplay. As far as I know, they don't get paid, and if anything only get grief from their family and spouses for the long hours they must put it. On top of that, it must be $@#$@#$@#$@# near impossible to design a game, you may disagree, but you should try it once. I imagine 100k people lawyering your rules, complaining about the rules or just saying how boring it is will prove you wrong.

As a volunteer myself, I would never hold myself to a lower standard to someone doing paid work, nor would I expect other people to do so. Yes, the GDC does deserve a lot of praise for the unpaid work they have put into FIRST, and I have to admit that I have not been doing enough of that-there are a lot of things this game does very well. But there are some things that I, and other people, think it does not do well, and constructive criticism is always a positive. The GDC, to their credit, has always seemed quite open to it; I imagine they have more important things to do right now then to respond to all of the threads slamming them right now on these boards. Now, there are some people here that have gone a little bit beyond constructive criticism; the title of this thread, for example, strikes me as a little bit beyond the line. But as long as people stick to being constructive, I don't believe there's anything wrong with what they're doing.

(P.S.: I do, in fact, have some game ideas. I didn't post them because I didn't really come back to this board until the game hint... err... what's the opposite of exodus? Err, anyway, you get what I mean... but no, I don't think I could do better then the GDC! I would change a few things... >_>)

Akash Rastogi 08-01-2009 01:52

Re: GDC you have failed us.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetraman (Post 795229)
That reminds me:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=13

Number 4: If I would like to see anything interesting happen to the competitions, I would want to see a floor change.

Lol

Curse you, Evan.:p Good playing field though.


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