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-   -   **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71587)

Tom Line 08-01-2009 19:02
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbagekid2 (Post 796035)
They didn't know of Walmrt's intentions, but you'd think that...FIRST SHOULD BE THE ONE TO LET Walmart know of THEIR intentions to use a ball which is distributed soley by Walmart. Or even check with the manufactuer to see the status of the product.

*sigh* sorry, had to rant
Can you please show us proof that they did not?

The economy has been changing a bit the last couple months.

chaoticprout 08-01-2009 19:07
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_UPS (Post 796119)
You know, last year's game peice was pretty much unobtainable last year, and I think having one was enough. For '07, having more than two was plenty. As long as you can do a basic test, you shouldn't complain.

As I've heard in the other threads, the orbit balls were on clearance for months. Which means BLIP Toys has prolly stopped making them for even longer. Which means FIRST would've have to give a warning about a year in advanced to prepare the two suppliers.
There's a vast difference between a 40" game piece that you can only use one of at a time (with 4 on the field) vs. smaller balls that you need to test containers and feeding mechanisms with (with 120+ on the field).

Not even close to the same.

Richard Wallace 08-01-2009 19:12
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Years ago I probably would have been disturbed all this whining about the shortage of game pieces available for purchase.

Several years of working with inspirational FIRSTers have given me an insight that precludes being disturbed by the whiners. The insight? I KNOW that for every person whining about gamepieces on CD, there are several others out there in the workshops, building GUS Balls, right now.

There are many thousands of FIRSTers who rise to challenges by finding ways to move forward. You can be one of them, or you can whine and make excuses. The choice is yours.

JaneYoung 08-01-2009 19:18
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard (Post 796131)
I KNOW that for every person whining about gamepieces on CD, there are several others out there in the workshops, building GUS Balls, right now.
There are many shining moments that stand out for me during my time as a FIRSTer. The GUS Ball development and white paper that happened so quickly is right there at the top, shining like a star.

907eyci 08-01-2009 19:46
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
this could be a good fund raising chance here... by the balls and resell them... i no some one is going to do it just when

keen101 08-01-2009 20:31
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
we will probably just make 20 of our own.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2187?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=71591

comphappy 08-01-2009 22:06
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by keen101 (Post 796193)
we will probably just make 20 of our own.
Takes a long time just so you know, we have been working most of the day on our 20. We have most of the strips made, but no balls actually woven yet.
We had some issue with the rivets cracking the lexan, so dont pop the rivet all the way, just enough that it is tight, and the cut it off.

dlavery 08-01-2009 23:49
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Soukup (Post 796110)
Really? When you're going to cause 2000 teams to want to buy 10-20 or more balls each, you'd better be sure that the only supplier of these balls is actually going to keep supplying them and will have a large enough quantity. As cabbagekid2 said, FIRST should have told the manufacturer and supplier what was going to happen. The small chance of potential damage caused by a leak is worth the huge pain that teams are facing now. How is a team supposed to design, build, and test a robot capable of holding 20 balls if they only have 4?

This is a pretty large 'oops' by FIRST.
You are making a pretty big assumption that FIRST did not take reasonable steps to plan for team access to game pieces. Not to be an apologist for FIRST, but this one really was not their fault. The game piece was selected early last summer with the specific goal of making sure that they would be available through a ubiquitous outlet such as Wal-mart. Both the manufacturer and the outlet were consulted and informed of FIRST's intentions. Wal-mart indicated they could handle the expected distribution without disturbing their channels. All was considered well and good. But then one week before Christmas Wal-mart announced they were discontinuing sales of Orbit Balls, with no prior notice. That late in the process, two weeks before kick-off, there was no opportunity to negotiate an alternate distributor with the manufacturer or identify an alternate game piece. FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.

The current situation is one that, painful as it may be, we just have to deal with. In that regard, kudos go to Team 228 and their development of the GUS balls. They are an excellent solution to an unfortunate problem, and it is a wonderful move to share that solution with the entire FIRST community.

-dave



.

Akash Rastogi 08-01-2009 23:56
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Soukup (Post 796110)
Really? When you're going to cause 2000 teams to want to buy 10-20 or more balls each, you'd better be sure that the only supplier of these balls is actually going to keep supplying them and will have a large enough quantity. As cabbagekid2 said, FIRST should have told the manufacturer and supplier what was going to happen. The small chance of potential damage caused by a leak is worth the huge pain that teams are facing now. How is a team supposed to design, build, and test a robot capable of holding 20 balls if they only have 4?

This is a pretty large 'oops' by FIRST.
that is specifically why I said "not entirely"

I'll be honest, i threw that in there because i thought the first part of my response was a bit harsh.

EricH 09-01-2009 00:00
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 796441)

The current situation is one that, painful as it may be, we just have to deal with. In that regard, kudos go to Team 228 and their development of the GUS balls. They are an excellent solution to an unfortunate problem, and it is a wonderful move to share that solution with the entire FIRST community.

-dave



.
Dave, thanks for letting us know that we aren't the only ones surprised by the scarcity.

Out of curiosity, would it be possible, legally and otherwise, to share the links to the GUS ball whitepaper in an update to ensure that the news goes out to whoever isn't on CD? With, of course, the caveat that these are not the official game objects, though they are reasonable substitutes.

Kyle 09-01-2009 00:02
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 796441)
You are making a pretty big assumption that FIRST did not take reasonable steps to plan for team access to game pieces. Not to be an apologist for FIRST, but this one really was not their fault. The game piece was selected early last summer with the specific goal of making sure that they would be available through a ubiquitous outlet such as Wal-mart. Both the manufacturer and the outlet were consulted and informed of FIRST's intentions. Wal-mart indicated they could handle the expected distribution without disturbing their channels. All was considered well and good. But then one week before Christmas Wal-mart announced they were discontinuing sales of Orbit Balls, with no prior notice. That late in the process, two weeks before kick-off, there was no opportunity to negotiate an alternate distributor with the manufacturer or identify an alternate game piece. FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain additional them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.

The current situation is one that, painful as it may be, we just have to deal with. In that regard, kudos go to Team 228 and their development of the GUS balls. They are an excellent solution to an unfortunate problem, and it is a wonderful move to share that solution with the entire FIRST community.

-dave



.

Thank you Dave, you have gave us insight into what happened that we didn't have before. I still believe that it will be hard for teams to properly design with limited amount of balls but what has been said here so far about all the teams that are winning about lack of balls there are twice as many that are just going to engineer ways around it is completely true. Once again, Thanks Dave for helping calm the situation down.
And wow last summer you had the game piece already picked out? Nice

Coach Norm 09-01-2009 00:19
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard (Post 796131)
There are many thousands of FIRSTers who rise to challenges by finding ways to move forward. You can be one of them, or you can whine and make excuses. The choice is yours.
Richard,
Thank you for posting and providing the gentle nudge some need to get back focused on what FIRST is about. Do engineers set around complaining about what they do not have? I think not.

In my previous career at my school, I coached athletics for 17 years and heard many times people complain about what the other teams had. It is not hard to look around and identify situations that seem unfair. New teams are at a disadvantage since they do not have the knowledge and experience of veteran teams. Some veteran teams do not have the resources other teams have. Teams are losing sponsorships due to economic times as well as losing mentors due lose of jobs.

Let's focus on what we have and what we can do with what we have.

Never in my coaching career or college athletic career have I experienced what I have in the past year. Generosity, encouragement, help and outright transparency in what makes other teams successful. Where else can you find that?

I reminded by FIRST Mission Statement:

Our mission is to inspire young people to be science and technology leaders, by engaging them in exciting mentor-based programs that build science, engineering and technology skills, that inspire innovation, and that foster well-rounded life capabilities including self-confidence, communication, and leadership.

Does complaining about not having Orbit Balls fit with FIRST's Mission statement?

(I know step off my soapbox.)

Bharat Nain 09-01-2009 00:26
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Soukup (Post 796110)
Really? When you're going to cause 2000 teams to want to buy 10-20 or more balls each, you'd better be sure that the only supplier of these balls is actually going to keep supplying them and will have a large enough quantity. As cabbagekid2 said, FIRST should have told the manufacturer and supplier what was going to happen. The small chance of potential damage caused by a leak is worth the huge pain that teams are facing now. How is a team supposed to design, build, and test a robot capable of holding 20 balls if they only have 4?

This is a pretty large 'oops' by FIRST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_UPS (Post 796119)
You know, last year's game peice was pretty much unobtainable last year, and I think having one was enough. For '07, having more than two was plenty. As long as you can do a basic test, you shouldn't complain.

As I've heard in the other threads, the orbit balls were on clearance for months. Which means BLIP Toys has prolly stopped making them for even longer. Which means FIRST would've have to give a warning about a year in advanced to prepare the two suppliers.
Last year, there were only 4 balls on the field. This year, its a lot more. I feel a little bit let down that even the game object is this hard to obtain. Teams running scrimmages were a huge benefit to their region. It will be a lot harder. I am glad to see many teams adopting a can-do attitude and fighting against the worst accommodations this year. It is certainly something else.

GaryVoshol 09-01-2009 07:12
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 796441)
But then one week before Christmas Wal-mart announced they were discontinuing sales of Orbit Balls, with no prior notice. That late in the process, two weeks before kick-off, there was no opportunity to negotiate an alternate distributor with the manufacturer or identify an alternate game piece. FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.
Thanks for sharing, Dave. As big as FIRST is to us, we sometimes fail to realize that it really isn't a major economic force in the world. Corporations, outside of specialty shops like AndyMark, aren't going to make production and supply decisions based on 1600 potential customers.

I think it's good of FIRST to share a limited access to pieces that they will be taking out of their own game stock. Hopefully there won't be a plea in April, "Please bring your Orbit Balls with you to Atlanta!"

jgannon 09-01-2009 08:49
Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Game Pieces Available
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 796441)
FIRST had planned to ensure that reasonable access to game pieces could be realized by those teams that wanted to obtain them. But they were caught at the last minute by forces beyond their control.
Was the reasonable access meant to include teams outside of the United States? Rumor has it that Canadian stores never carried them in the first place, not that they disappeared at the last minute.


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