Re: Team Update #2
 

I was wondering if this would be allowed. The bumper itself wouldn't be shorter than 6", but the L-bracket in the corner is a hard piece, and it would extend past the corner of the robot. I think it wouldn't fly, but I hope someone can find a work-around here. Curving the ends sounds the best so far.

Re: Team Update #2
 

The rule and update in no way explicitly mandate this, hence the confusion.

Re: Team Update #2
 

This is a huge point though and needs to be clarified. Basically I am scrambling to change our robot design to work with this 6" per side requirement and I am really not wanting to change the design that we had. This just seems like too much regulation. I understand wanting to possibly force people in to certain drivetrains but this is seriously limiting ball harvesting and scoring apparatuses as well.

Re: Team Update #2
 

The rules and updates absolutely do say that there needs to be a 6 inch piece of plywood covered with pool noodles and fabric on each side of your ball gathering opening. Those of you thinking like lawyers just haven't figured that out yet.

Re: Team Update #2
 

I don't like this definitely takes a lot out of variety out of potential designs. Not saying we won't adapt and overcome, and it is still shadily defined, but the way the gdc phrased that doesn't foster hope in my mind.

Re: Team Update #2
 

Where does it say this?

Re: Team Update #2
 

in the rules, all of them. but that is just my interpretation, which thus far has not needed any updates for clarification. I could be wrong, but I haven't been yet. I would like a wider opening on the front of our robot too so I hope you are right.

Re: Team Update #2
 

After reading the rules some more, I find that a bumper segment can't be shorter than 6", but that the backing (plywood) doesn't have to be in complete segments within each bumper segment. IMO, the segment is defined as a complete piece of bumper held together by either plywood, pool noodle, or both. In this way, I think a bumper with pool noodles that wrap around the corners, no cuts, and attach with 2 pieces of plywood, so long as the entire SEGMENT fits in the 6-38 inch requirement, is allowed. Correct me if there is something that blatantly prohibits using multiple pieces of backing, but I believe this is legal under the rules.

Re: Team Update #2
 

I think I read the same rules you did, and came to a different conclusion...how about a rule that says either "there must be bumpers on all sides of the robot" or "bumpers are not required on all sides of the robot". We're engineers, not lawyers.

Re: Team Update #2
 

This update seam's to emphasize that the GDC does not want any robot to trailer contact other than bumper to bumper. It seams very clear that for measuring the bumper length the plywood or AL frame should be used. Not pool noodles. It is also clear that for a rectangular bot every corner must have at least 6" of bumper in each direction.Those who have planed to use the entire front face of a robot for ball gathering have a problem. This means that depending on orientation, The maximum ball entry dimension is either 26 or 16 ". With the limited maneuverability of the robots, running down balls is going to take great driver skill. For those who have chosen the 28" dimension for the front, good luck running down a ball with a 16" max slot. It's not that much better for the 26" either. This update also lets every one Know that in a trailer to robot collision, the trailer can enter into the robot. This may impact some teams design for a ball sweeper mechanism. The diagram in the update does not show the distance the trailer would penetrate into the robot with full pool noodle compression. It would be prudent to make sure that no part of the robot other than bumper can contact the trailer when there is a collision with maximum trailer penetration and pool noodle compression. This will affect our ball sweeper roller design a little.

Re: Team Update #2
 

I wonder, if we made the sweeper robust enough, could we legally sweep in an opponent?:D

Seriously: I do not see any way where I could protect the corners while not having a bumper on each face of the robot with at least 6 inches of hard backing. 26" is about enough for a decent sweeper though.

I agree with squirrel: We're engineers, not lawyers dangnabbit.

Don

Re: Team Update #2
 

My interpretation is that this update's intent is to stress the importance of protecting the field elements (trailer is a field element). If your opening was any wider than the 26" wide opening, you may damage the pvc tubing that is attached to the trailer by overlapping the trailor and contacting the posts. Both scenerios bring you within inches of the post circle.

I do not think they are leaning towards a specific design because if you were going to use a narrow chassis, then overlapping or damaging the posts shouldn't be an issue due to the fact that a 26" opening isn't feasible. Therefore, they only showed us a drawing for the wide chassis orientation.

Now if my interpretation is correct, which I'm not exactly sure to be honest because this is just my opinion, then I would think with a narrow design, one would be able to wrap a bumper around a front corner as long as the total segment length is 6" or more.

My reason for this is as follows:

The maximum bumper perimeter is 132". 2/3rds of 132 is 88 inches. If you cover both 38" sides, which equals 76", then you cover the rear, leaving a 7" gap for the trailer tongue, then you've covered an additional 21". These two combined equal 97". Therefore, you have covered 2/3rds of the perimeter.
You still need to add bumpers to the front, and that is where you wrap around the corners to meet this part of <R08>:

a ROBOT that is driven into a vertical wall in any normal PLAYING CONFIGURATION will always have the BUMPER be the first thing to contact the wall.


I may also be thinking this rule, but its their fault......LOL:ahh:

Re: Team Update #2
 

See this Q&A post for clarification...it would have been nice if they included the last few lines in the update...

Re: Team Update #2
 

Here is my problem. I do not like to read the rules as a lawyer and I thought I wasn't. To me, the GDC is lawyering the rules. Here is why:

Nowhere in the rules does it say the entire bumper has to have the plywood backing. It does say a bumper consists of a plywood backing, etc. If I have a legal bumper in my hand, and this year that bumper can be beveled, how long is it? Where do I measure it? At the outside edge? At the plywood?

Before you answer please see rule R8 sub part N as I placed it exactly below:

"BUMPERS may extend beyond the BUMPER PERIMIETER by up to a maximum of 3-1/2 inches per side. "Hard" parts of the BUMPER (i.e. plywood backing, fastening system, and clamping angles) may extend up to a maximum of one inch beyond the BUMPER PERIMETER. Only "soft" parts of the BUMPERS (i.e. pool noodles and cloth covering) may extend more than one inch beyond the bumper perimeter."

This rule clearly indicates the beveled pool noodle is part of the BUMPER. They state it is the "soft" part of the BUMPER.

I don't care either way, but if they want the plywood part of the bumper to be at least 6" long, then why didn't they just say it.

If this update did not come out, my team would have had illegal BUMPERS and would have had no idea why. That is my basic issue.

Re: Team Update #2
 

I agree with Paul. I can see their point that a bumper assembly includes backer board, noodle and cloth, plus optional corner protection. But wouldn't it be so easy to say, "All three parts must be at least 6 inches"?

They tell you that 2/3 of the perimeter must have a bumper. Nowhere does it say that this 2/3 must be distributed along part of every side of the robot - and that still isn't conclusively stated anywhere. If that's what they meant by "protecting the corners" they should have said so. Teams' interpretations whether an extra bit of noodle going past the corner meets this provision shouldn't have to be guesswork.

I'm working on a concept to avoid this kind of thing in future years' rules. I've yet to flesh it out. But I hope something can be done. I know from the OCCRA Committee that writing down your concept and getting it across to all your readers is difficult.