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-   -   Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply?? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71706)

BaldGuy 09-01-2009 17:11

Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
I posted this question once already and did not get a reply.

Section 7 The Game

<G20> Handling MOON ROCKS – MOON ROCKS can be SCORED by ROBOTS or PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS. PAYLOAD SPECIALIST can enter MOON ROCKS into play by launching them over the Alliance Station Wall or over/through the OUTPOST shield. MOON ROCKS can not enter the CRATER by being thrown around the end of the Alliance Station Wall. A violation will cause a PENALTY to be assigned.

<G23> SUPER CELL scoring – During the last 20 seconds of the MATCH, the PAYLOAD SPECIALIST may launch the available SUPER CELLS over the Alliance Station Wall and into the CRATER. The PAYLOAD SPECIALIST can SCORE a SUPER CELL by launching it into a TRAILER. If a SUPER CELL is launched into the CRATER before the last 20 seconds of the MATCH, then two (2) PENALTIES will be assigned.

The question: There is no mention that a Robot can score a Super Cell anywhere in this section-

<G20> says Moon rocks can be scored by Robots or Payload Specialists.
<G23> says a Payload Specialist can score a Super Cell.

Where does it say a Robot can Score a Super Cell??????????

Cory 09-01-2009 17:13

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaldGuy (Post 796905)
I posted this question once already and did not get a reply.

Section 7 The Game

<G20> Handling MOON ROCKS – MOON ROCKS can be SCORED by ROBOTS or PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS. PAYLOAD SPECIALIST can enter MOON ROCKS into play by launching them over the Alliance Station Wall or over/through the OUTPOST shield. MOON ROCKS can not enter the CRATER by being thrown around the end of the Alliance Station Wall. A violation will cause a PENALTY to be assigned.

<G23> SUPER CELL scoring – During the last 20 seconds of the MATCH, the PAYLOAD SPECIALIST may launch the available SUPER CELLS over the Alliance Station Wall and into the CRATER. The PAYLOAD SPECIALIST can SCORE a SUPER CELL by launching it into a TRAILER. If a SUPER CELL is launched into the CRATER before the last 20 seconds of the MATCH, then two (2) PENALTIES will be assigned.

The question: There is no mention that a Robot can score a Super Cell anywhere in this section-

<G20> says Moon rocks can be scored by Robots or Payload Specialists.
<G23> says a Payload Specialist can score a Super Cell.

Where does it say a Robot can Score a Super Cell??????????

It doesn't, but it doesn't say they can't, either.

BaldGuy 09-01-2009 17:28

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
The rules don't say you can't tip your trailer over intentiionally at the start of the game to keep anyone from scoring and take the early penalty, but I'm sure that's not in the spirit of the rules.

So my question is what was the intent behind <G23> TITLED "Super Cell Scoring", and why cover only one way to score the Super Cell, if the intent is to allow either method, and then why title <G20> "Moon Rock Handling" yet tell you both methods to score the Moon Rock.

It seems some clarification is in order.

jgannon 09-01-2009 17:41

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaldGuy (Post 796926)
The rules don't say you can't tip your trailer over intentiionally at the start of the game to keep anyone from scoring and take the early penalty, but I'm sure that's not in the spirit of the rules.

<G32> allows for a team to be disqualified for intentionally tipping a trailer. No interpretation of spirit is necessary.

lingomaniac88 09-01-2009 17:43

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
The narration for the game animation says:
"During the last 20 seconds of the match, humans or robots can score bonus points by getting super cells into opposing trailers."
The game animation says yes, but I think the GDC should confirm this officially.

BaldGuy 09-01-2009 17:43

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Ok Bad example, but I hope you get my question- I still think it is a valid question.

BaldGuy 09-01-2009 18:06

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
It is clearly stated that the game animation video and anything said or done in the animation should not be interpretted as a rule.

GaryVoshol 09-01-2009 20:01

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Get your lead mentor to ask the official Q&A on FIRST forums. The team id and password are in TIMS.

DM7000 09-01-2009 21:04

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
It would seem to me that it should be possible. My thoughts is that the super cells will end up on the floor for robots to pick up as humans aren't very likely to make the shot every time. My thoughts would be that a robot is able to pick that up and score it. But like Gary said this would be a good question to ask in the Q&A

PhilBot 10-01-2009 00:13

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaldGuy (Post 796926)
The rules don't say you can't tip your trailer over intentiionally at the start of the game to keep anyone from scoring and take the early penalty, but I'm sure that's not in the spirit of the rules.

So my question is what was the intent behind <G23> TITLED "Super Cell Scoring", and why cover only one way to score the Super Cell, if the intent is to allow either method, and then why title <G20> "Moon Rock Handling" yet tell you both methods to score the Moon Rock.

It seems some clarification is in order.

The manual also does not specifically indicate who can score an empty-cell.
I assume both robot and human can. How about you?

BaldGuy 10-01-2009 07:45

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Hence the thread title- I already posted 2X- I'm one of the lead mentors, and posted the question 2X (yes using the passwd) but have yet to hear a peep.

Doug Adams 10-01-2009 08:49

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Wish I had seen your post yesterday. I posted the same question late last night.

We were cruising along on our strategy until someone asked the simple question: where does it say robots are allowed to score super cells?

Hopefully the GDC will give word soon. Seems like robots should be allowed to score such a high value game piece.

Mathguy77 11-01-2009 22:19

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
I don't have the rules in front of me, but what I remember is this.

The payload player is given a super cell in exchange for an empty cell.

The empty cells start with the outpost player.

SO, sometime during the match, the outpost player gives an empty cell to a robot, (hence the little opening in the outpost wall) the robot takes it to the payload specialist, and once there, a (judge, ref, etc) takes it and replaces it with a supercell.

Now, since supercells can only be thrown in the last 20 seconds of a match, the chances of a robot collecting a missed supercell AND making it into a trailer is highly unlikely.

So i guess there doesn't need to be a rule against a robot scoring a supercell, cause there is practically no way it will happen.

Akash Rastogi 11-01-2009 22:28

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
I expect a team update on Tuesday at the latest.

*crosses fingers*

Kristian Calhoun 11-01-2009 22:56

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathguy77 (Post 799021)
SO, sometime during the match, the outpost player gives an empty cell to a robot, (hence the little opening in the outpost wall) the robot takes it to the payload specialist, and once there, a (judge, ref, etc) takes it and replaces it with a supercell.

This is a common misconception and is incorrect. Each FUELING STATION contains a CELL RACK. At each fueling station there are two SUPER CELLS, hung on one side of the CELL RACK. After a robot delivers an EMPTY CELL to a PAYLOAD SPECIALIST located at one of the FUELING STATIONS, the EMPTY CELL is then placed on the CELL RACK, opposite from one of the SUPER CELLS. A SUPER CELL can only be used/removed from the CELL RACK if there is an EMPTY CELL opposite it (see <G13> and <G22>).

The EMPTY CELL is never physically taken away from the PAYLOAD SPECIALIST. This is important because the PAYLOAD SPECIALIST is not required to exchange the EMPTY CELL for a SUPER CELL (<G22> reads may be exchanged. . .) Thus, the PAYLOAD SPECIALIST may decide to reenter the EMPTY CELL into to the CRATER.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathguy77 (Post 799021)
Now, since supercells can only be thrown in the last 20 seconds of a match, the chances of a robot collecting a missed supercell AND making it into a trailer is highly unlikely.

So i guess there doesn't need to be a rule against a robot scoring a supercell, cause there is practically no way it will happen.

I beg to differ.

smurfgirl 11-01-2009 23:37

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaldGuy (Post 797421)
Hence the thread title- I already posted 2X- I'm one of the lead mentors, and posted the question 2X (yes using the passwd) but have yet to hear a peep.

I don't know if it's necessary to post twice- they will read all the questions. They have been unusually slow about answering, though, and I'm not sure why that is happening. It's incredibly frustrating.


To answer your original question though, it doesn't say anywhere (specifically) that a robot cannot score a supercell. However, it doesn't say that it can't either. (Also, I don't see why a robot wouldn't be allowed to score a game piece...) I never had any doubts that robots were allowed to score supercells.

BaldGuy 12-01-2009 11:53

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
So counting me and Doug Adams, the question has been submitted 3X to the Q&A system-

Still no answer.... They seem to be answering a lot of other questions....:confused:

Taylor 12-01-2009 11:57

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
I imagine the GDC has hundreds if not thousands of questions to sift through, consolidate, edit, and answer. I don't know how many GDCers there are on the FIRST forums, and I'm guessing they all have 'real jobs' in their lives as well. Our team has posed about a half dozen questions and have seen no response; I'm not too concerned. I believe they'll get to it when they get to it, and once again the GDC is teacing us a valuable lesson - patience is a virtue.

Akash Rastogi 14-01-2009 15:54

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi (Post 799031)
I expect a team update on Tuesday at the latest.

*crosses fingers*

owned

RobotDevil1985 14-01-2009 18:16

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lingomaniac88 (Post 796942)
The narration for the game animation says:
"During the last 20 seconds of the match, humans or robots can score bonus points by getting super cells into opposing trailers."
The game animation says yes, but I think the GDC should confirm this officially.

Don't rely on the game animation to be your rule explinations, every year we have to explain to our rookie members that most of the robots in the animation break some rule. That animation should only be used to explain the object of the game to a non-competitor.

EricH 14-01-2009 18:25

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
It has been officially announced (Update #3). Go ahead and use your robot to score them.

dlavery 14-01-2009 18:47

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RobotDevil1985 (Post 801011)
Don't rely on the game animation to be your rule explinations, every year we have to explain to our rookie members that most of the robots in the animation break some rule. That animation should only be used to explain the object of the game to a non-competitor.

Every year I am amused by the notion that there are many comments about the various cartoon robots in the kick-off animation that violate rule X, Y or Z in the course of demonstrating the concept of how the game is played. But no one ever seems to have a problem with the fact that most of the robots defy several laws of physics during the course of the same animation. :)

-dave

p.s. just for the record, every year the animation is correct and compliant with all the rules at the time it is rendered. However, the final versions of the rules and the animation are done in parallel. More than once, a rule has been tweaked at the last minute that causes something in the animation to become illegal. But there is no time to correct the animation before the kick-off, so it just goes "as is." And if you are wondering just how close we cut things when finishing the rules and the animation, this year was a classic example. I flew to Manchester to go to kick off and deliver the animation at 7:30am on Jan 1. The animation had not been completed and the final edits done until 3:40 that morning.

,

Rick Wagner 14-01-2009 19:20

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 801040)
... no one ever seems to have a problem with the fact that most of the robots defy several laws of physics during the course of the same animation.

Everyone knows that cartoon robots are allowed to violate laws of physics! :)

EricH 14-01-2009 20:20

Re: Super Cell Scoring Question posted 2X by me on Q&A but no reply??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Wagner (Post 801068)
Everyone knows that cartoon robots are allowed to violate laws of physics! :)

Hey Dave (and Rick), have you ever heard of Wiley's Law?:yikes:


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