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-   -   pic: Carmen week1 team 842 (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71878)

MrForbes 11-01-2009 12:25
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamcap.2395 (Post 798394)
How many hours have you guys worked during week 1? :confused:
They seem to be working on it almost all day every day during the week. If you want to check up on them, it's pretty easy....although it's Sunday today.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/falcon-robotics-team-842

NickE 11-01-2009 13:11
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Where's the cRIO?
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster (Post 798562)
Does the bumper perimeter have to be rectangular?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2009 FRC Manual Section 8.2
BUMPER PERIMETER – the polygon defined by the outer-most set of exterior vertices on the ROBOT (without the BUMPERS or Trailer Hitch attached) that are within the BUMPER ZONE. To determine the BUMPER PERIMETER, wrap a piece of string around the ROBOT at the level of the BUMPER ZONE - the string describes this polygon.
i.e. The bumper perimeter must be a convex polygon.

falconmaster 11-01-2009 13:16
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickE (Post 798589)
Where do the cRio and Spikes go? i.e. The bumper perimeter must be a convex polygon.
That is interesting, where does it say that it must be convex?

That would settle the dispute......

Thanks for helping to vet us. We don't want to caught at a regional with a violation.

NickE 11-01-2009 13:27
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster (Post 798593)
That is interesting, where does it say that it must be convex?
It never explicitly says that it must be convex, but wrapping a string around a concave polygon will result with the string not following the entire perimeter of the polygon. If you wrap a string around this robot in the bumper zone, it will form a convex rectangle.

falconmaster 11-01-2009 13:47
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
definition per rules
To determine the BUMPER PERIMETER, wrap a piece of string around the ROBOT at the level of the BUMPER ZONE - the string describes this polygon.

We would have our string cross the opening of our bot. It does not say it has to make contact with the bumper zone everywhere. That is an assumption. Our polygon would be a rectangle, never the less we will cover the angles in from the corner with 6 inches of bumper. We think we are ok......I hope

NickE 11-01-2009 13:49
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster (Post 798614)
We would have our string cross the opening of our bot. It does not say it has to make contact with the bumper zone everywhere. That is an assumption. Our polygon would be a rectangle, never the less we will cover the angles in from the corner with 6 inches of bumper. We think we are ok......I hope
Would the bumpers be straight (parallel with back of bot) or angled (parallel with angled front sides of bot)?

AdamHeard 11-01-2009 13:52
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconmaster (Post 798614)
definition per rules
To determine the BUMPER PERIMETER, wrap a piece of string around the ROBOT at the level of the BUMPER ZONE - the string describes this polygon.

We would have our string cross the opening of our bot. It does not say it has to make contact with the bumper zone everywhere. That is an assumption. Our polygon would be a rectangle, never the less we will cover the angles in from the corner with 6 inches of bumper. We think we are ok......I hope
I believe the intent is that bumpers must be on the bumper perimeter. You're taking a risky move, and should probably Q&A it.

GaryVoshol 11-01-2009 14:04
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 798622)
I believe the intent is that bumpers must be on the bumper perimeter. You're taking a risky move, and should probably Q&A it.
It's not just the intent, it's the rule:
Quote:
Originally Posted by <R08>
L. The BUMPERS must be fixed to the BUMPER PERIMETER.
What needs to be answered in Q&A is if every side of your robot must have bumpers in order to satisfy the requirement that corners are protected.

MrForbes 11-01-2009 14:05
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 798629)
What needs to be answered in Q&A is if every side of your robot must have bumpers in order to satisfy the requirement that corners are protected.
That's the one that I haven't figured out for sure yet...and we're going to assume the answer is "yes". Which really limits the effectiveness of end loading narrow robots like Carmen, unfortunately.

Bongle 11-01-2009 16:16
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 798629)
It's not just the intent, it's the rule:

What needs to be answered in Q&A is if every side of your robot must have bumpers in order to satisfy the requirement that corners are protected.
Another team member pointed this out to me today: the first thing to contact a flat vertical obstacle (aka the wall) must be your bumper. If you have one side completely uncovered, then the first thing to hit that vertical obstacle will be metal.

falconmaster 11-01-2009 16:19
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickE (Post 798616)
Would the bumpers be straight (parallel with back of bot) or angled (parallel with angled front sides of bot)?
angled

Mike8519 11-01-2009 22:50
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Angled "bumpers" would not pass inspection because technically they are not bumpers at all since they do not lie on the bumper perimeter according to the current set of definitions and both sides of the corner must be protected.

MrForbes 11-01-2009 22:57
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Ahhh...here's that statement that seemed to me to be missing from the rules.

"2. As indicated in Rule <R08-I>, all exterior corners of the BUMPER PERIMETER must be protected by BUMPERS. Both "sides" of the corner must be protected."

from http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11159

falconmaster 11-01-2009 23:56
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel (Post 799058)
Ahhh...here's that statement that seemed to me to be missing from the rules.

"2. As indicated in Rule <R08-I>, all exterior corners of the BUMPER PERIMETER must be protected by BUMPERS. Both "sides" of the corner must be protected."

from http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11159
Ok Well according to Jim we are possible ok since we will have the bumpers over the corners and the first part to touch a wall will be the bumpers. Let keep or fingers crossed!

MrForbes 12-01-2009 00:21
Re: pic: Carmen week1 team 842
 
The problem is the bumpers need to be on the bumper perimeter, which is the edge around the robot, and recessed parts of the frame are not the perimeter. So it looks to me like it's not legal. You'd have to put back the straight pieces across the front, but make them each 6" long, and cover them with 6" long bumpers. This will give a pretty small opening in the middle.

What a bummer, how vague the rules are this year on bumpers...they could have just come out and said what they wanted in the first place.


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