update #9
 

Here is the new update
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...Update%209.pdf

Update #9
 

http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Team%20Update%209.pdf

They have noticed the different numbering. They have also made some modifications to the trailer hitch drawings for reasons explained in the update.

Oh, and the inspection documents are available. There are some other more minor things too, but you'll have to read the update to get them.

Re: Update #9
 

Am I correct in reading the match sequencing part to think that the common practice of using switches on your OI to choose autonomous programs, starting positions, etc. before the start of autonomous mode will no longer work? Looks to me like the only way to provide program selection input to the robot will be by setting switches etc. on the robot itself. That sucks.

Re: Update #9
 

According to the following post on the FIRST forums, the DS data will be passed in Autonomous Disabled, so there won't be a problem. http://forums.usfirst.org/showpost.p...96&postcount=4

Re: Update #9
 

Good. Thanks for passing that along.

Re: Update #9
 

They should probably update this Q&A because it doesnt transition seamlessly from auto to teleop (it goes through a disable state for atleast 2 periods, ~0.04 sec)

Re: Update #9
 

Am I the only one who can't find the new drawings? I have only been able to find the old drawings. Could anyone post a link to the new drawings? Thanks.

The Q&A says that there will be a "negligible delay". 0.04 sec is fairly negligible for the drivers and players, which is probably what the asker wanted to know. This is compared to usually a 2-20 second delay during previous years. Of course, the Q&A should probably add those details to the Q&A post.

Re: Update #9
 

So after the autonomous is over, does that mean the payload specialist has to wait for tele-op to start before scoring again?

Re: update #9
 

I'm not finding drawing GE-0940 Rev B. The update says it's in Section 8, but I don't see it there. Nor is it with the Game specific drawings in Section 6.

Am I misguided, or what?:o

Re: Update #9
 

I don't think it will matter. Not much action will take place during the .04 seconds that things will be in the disabled state. Even balls in the air won't move much during that time slice. The processor might be able to add a few integers or a real number or two during those 40 miliseconds, but not much else.

Re: update #9
 

I can't find it either. The Game specific drawings have GE-0940 Rev A, but there is only the original trailer hitch diagram in it. I guess they must not have posted it yet or have hidden it with great skill.

Mods, should this thread be merged with the other update 9 thread? http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...686#post813686

Re: Update #9
 

Good, other people are having trouble finding the new drawings for the trailer hitch. I thought I was just web site incompetent.

Re: Update #9
 

Has anyone asked Q&A about it?

Re: Update #9
 

The presence of a disabled state between autonomous mode and teleop can have an effect on teams using single-acting pneumatic solenoid valves...

Re: Update #9
 

The new drawing has been posted at the end of Section 8 on the 2009 FIRST Competition Manual and Related Documents page.

Looks like a shorter (3") length of Andy-Mark chassis material (C-channel) is allowed for the trailer mount bar. Presumably this avoid interference of the mount with the hitch tongue given the larger (3/8") clearance hole in the hitch swivel.

Re: Update #9
 

It is a negligible delay (I wrote the Q&A question, I agree). However it doesn't transition seamlessly because it enters a disabled state (Answer suggests it does not enter a disable state). As a followup, They should just post the bullet list or see Update 9 so no one gets confused. Jared brings up a good point with the single solenoids and disabled. It is also more complicated to carry over program state from autonomous to teleop (and simulate that transition in the lab, my fingers arent that quick ;) )

Re: Update #9
 

This is good to know for we are planning to have that data at the diver's station (color, position, auto mode #).

Do we have a high level of confidence that we can put these switches at driver's station and be read before auto mode enabled?

Re: Update #9
 

Yes, confidence is high.

If the field control system ends up not delivering the promised behavior and fails to pass the state of the operator console controls to the robot at some point before the match begins, I would consider it the equivalent of a breach of contract.

Re: Update #9
 

"If the field control system ends up not delivering the promised behavior and fails to pass the state of the operator console controls to the robot at some point before the match begins, I would consider it the equivalent of a breach of contract."

Actually, FRC FMS team control never communicates with or restricts the comms with the robots, its strictly a DS communication link. The DS connects with the cRio through a team dedicated VLAN and reports back to FMS that the team is ready to go. Then a match can start by FMS enabling the DS. Any sort of action like you're referring is in DS firmware.

Also the time delay between autonomous and teleop this year is 1 second.

Re: Update #9
 

Really? We're getting four extra points each match, then. If other team's human players are half decent, this one second of generalized duck sitting shall result in a 2*2*3 = 12 points inflation in each alliance's score. :P

Re: Update #9
 

You are contradicting the official statement in Team Update #5 regarding live camera feedback: "This year, the Field Management System will not pass data sent through that port during a match (to ensure adequate system performance during competition events, until the new system is better characterized in actual competition settings)."

:eek: That's hardly a "negligible" delay. As Manoel points out, it essentially gives each team a free throw or two.

Re: Update #9
 

RE: camera feedback - Thats an exception - the camera port is blocked

Re: Update #9
 

Alan/Joe/and any one else interested,

Today we posted up something called FMS Light to the control system download page , toward the bottom of the page.

It has some of the same controls as the Full Version of the new FMS. It was put up so teams can practice auto and teleop timed controls and does the tournament transition from auto to teleop (1 sec). Off season events can use it too to do the six robot starts and match timing. FIRST will put out an email blast about its availablity a little later. But the downloads are up. Make sure you read the "user manual" with it and if someone starts another thread about it I'll try to answer any question others can't.

Enjoy and good luck to all this year