Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Continuing with our Transformers naming scheme, here is our 2009 robot, "Devastator".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcDfKe6NF_8

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

It might just be my computer but it is saying that the video is not available.

-Sam

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

oH MANNG 254 IS SICK!!!!!!!!!

Actually, the video isn't up yet. :cool: I can see how excited you are to get this out though, Cory.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Ho.

Ly.


Crap.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Um... Its up... WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

-Sam

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Perhaps a photo for those of us who can't view Youtube at work?

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

WOW!!!! You and 148 are seriously making me question our choice to go with a shooter. That is absolutely ridiculous how fast you can unload balls. Would you mind posting some pictures showing more detail? Also how far can you unload from? Last question can you load from the floor or is it human player loading only?

This is a killer design!

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Continuing to drop jaws across the world...Team 254

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

254 and 148 have spent the entire season goading each other to do "more" and "faster". It has been fun and I think both teams benefited.

BEAUTIFUL robot. I've always been a huge fan of 254 and I know they'll be extremely successful this year.

Some of the best designers in FIRST showcasing their skills right here ladies and gents...

-John

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Here you go. Note the time, and both robot hoppers were full of balls at the beginning of the video, and the trailer was empty.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Power dumping is the way to go this year. Period.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

lol your username is still Coryteam100

The ball scoring is fast. But what’s even more amazing is the speed and maneuverability on the regolith. You need to upload a vid of them driving.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I'm going to go ahead and guess it can do around 20-25 balls in about 3 seconds :eek:

Good thing we won't have to play you guys or 148 until the championship.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

It's an awesome robot, and I'm sure your team will make the most of it!

Good thing we can't afford the trip to Atlanta ;)

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I'm trying to figure out how a bot like this will compare with bots like ours which is a super high power turreted shooter that can do about 4 or 5 balls a second. They can obviously deposit many more at one instant in time but we can shoot for a longer period of time by moving the turret and adjusting the distance.

I think neither power dumpers or shooters in general are better. In order to be a highly successful dumper you need to be able to unload balls much faster than a shooter since scoring opportunities will be less frequent. For a successful shooter you need to be highly adjustable (distance and rotation) and be able to shoot quickly ~3+ balls per second.

I completely agree that 148 and 254's bots will be absolutely killer and they definitely have a great chance of dominating, they are more the exception than the norm though. Most dumpers I have seen are slower at expelling balls than our shooter and lack the adjustability to be able to shoot under more circumstances.

The key imo seems to be picking either a shooter or power dumper and maximizing it's potential like 254 and 148 have done.

I am truly amazed that you have managed to create a relatively simple solution to this game that looks to be truly "devastating" to the opposition.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Daaang, that is fast... what's powering the conveyor? 2CIMs?

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Real cool...

I wish we had 2 robots and ~50 orbit balls...

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I saw the robot(probably the practice one) at the scrimmage yesterday, though they never were on the field while we were practicing. Very impressive robot, can't wait to see it at competition, well, unless if we're up against them:eek:.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Wow, our robot looks very similar. For once my thought process of "What Would 254 Do?" actually worked out! :p

Looks great, I'd like to see just how you're belt system works, how do you manage to pull the balls out of your hopper so quickly without jamming? Is this beast capable of picking up balls as well? Six wheels? Traction control? So many questions still left unanswered...

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

now where is 217 and 1114?

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Shan, you know well that 217 already revealed their robot.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Yep, and 2 Fisher Prices powering the bottom pulleys.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Cory,
Can you explain the process to making your hopper.
-What thickness polycarb do you use?
-How do you go about bending it...
-Do you rivet, or fasten it together in anyway?

Any other tidbits would be awesome!

Brando

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

wow...
wow...

I wanna see 254 and 148 in the same division in Atl :)

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Pssh. It almost seems like a slam dunk that they go to Einstein together if that happens. But that would not be nearly as much fun as having them in different Divisions, and ending up opposing each other on Einstein. That would be an "epic match of the century" competition. Maybe not quite as much fun for them, since only one will come out on top. But it would be a great match for the entire audience to see.

-dave


.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Wow Cory,
That was beautiful, I think I cried a little. haha

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Amazing. How long do you think it will take to fill your hopper? How many does it hold?

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

that was scary:ahh:

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I think I know the design process...

Take the Poofs' 2006 robot. Spin the shooter 180 degrees. Widen it to robot width. Move the intake to the other side.

Watch everyone's jaws hit the floor.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Rawrr, talk about designer's remorse. >.<

We were so unsure of ourselves this year about our design selection (at least I was) and now that uncertainty is finally confirmed by 148, 254, 968, and 100. $@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#.:( Hate that almost every year the design that our team rejects is proven to be the better bot and we always get beaten by that design. Ahh, oh well I guess.

Nonetheless, awesome machine as usual and I hope your drivers had a fun time practicing. Hopefully see you in Atlanta on Newton again. (06 repeat?) We still have that Programming Prowess award you guys gave us on Newton that year. ^_^

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

1. Nobody has beaten anybody yet, don't give up on your robot.
2. If you decide you're not good enough, you still have 40 lbs of witholding allowance to make changes to your robot. Remember, "done" is a 4-letter word. Think continuous improvement and try to make changes which will have big impacts on overall performance.

Don't stop now!

The thing about working hard, is you can always work harder. The thing about being great is you can always be greater.

-John

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I actually really needed to hear that from someone, thank you.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Robots like this are why 2v3 matches will be undesirable this year.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I agree with JVN. 254, 968, 148, and 100 have made killer renditions of the power dumper model of robot. I also believe that they could have made killer renditions of a shooter robot as well that would have everyone's jaws on the floor. These are without a doubt some of if not the best teams in FIRST year in and year out and basically any design they come up with will probably be a somewhat jaw-dropping experience. I wouldn't give up on your idea though Akash. Maybe look into a way to increase the rate that you can dump balls. Add a power roller if you dont have one or add more power to it if you do have one. That should be an easy upgrade. All of these killer bots we have seen have relatively simple designs and a ton of power to push massive amounts of balls through the system. You should be able to add some more power and have a more effective scoring device.

Also remember just being able to score a lot of balls at once doesn't guarantee winning. You also must be able to drive well and smartly to avoid being scored on and getting in bad situations.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

While I am still not convinced the "power dump" is the best strategy, this robot may very well make me eat my words. Remarkable.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I told you everyone would be very very afraid. :p
If they ever teamed up with 148 at CMP, they may be extremely disappointed that there would only be 3 trailers to fill in 2 minutes. What are they gonna do with all that extra time?

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I too don't necessarily think a power dumper is the best strategy. I am leaning toward both power dumpers and shooters being equal so long as both are built to emphasize there particular strengths. I do believe that any shooter designed for long distances is not going to be particularly effective. I see a rapid fire short range turreted shooter as being on par if not better than power dumpers in many cases. I also think that 254's bot is truly scary as a dumper. Luckily I don't think many dumper designs will be capable of such absurd firepower. As soon as a team makes one wrong move driving which will happen, 254 will be able to offload at least 15+ balls.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

The only problem with this bot is that if it misses, there are 40 balls on the floor.

(though the chance of all 40 balls missing on even a moving target is quite low)

nice job poofs, coupled with a pinning robot there is no way you guys could lose.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Classic 254...good job guys.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

IMHO...
The question is not about short range or long range, not about turreted or stationary. The question is about throughput. If you can spit those balls out fast enough you are by definition a "dumper".

Once you take throughput out of the equation it is about accuracy. There are an infinite number of factors any number of which can be BLENDED into a design. To label a robot as a "shooter" or a "dumper" is strange to me.

There is a spectrum.
On one side we have a robot that can fire off 45 shots from 50 feet away using their super magic camera code in under 5 seconds and score 100% in 2 goals at once.
On the other side we have a robot that fires 1 ball every 10 seconds and can only score in a goal that is touching their robot and misses 50% of the time.

We all obviously want the first example, but we make tradeoffs based on our team's individual limitations. 148 found a balance of range-accuracy-speed-volume that made us very happy. Every other team found their own balance. Some teams don't need to find a balance because they are awesome enough to do EVERYTHING. Most teams cannot do this (or were too chicken to try... us included.)

I'm expecting 71 to unveil their Orbit Ball Howlitzer any day now that makes our robot look like a children's toy.

Honestly... the only stat which matters is the number in your "W" column. I guess we'll wait and see. I'm willing to bet that even if you gave 254 an inferior robot they'd have a whole pile of W's, and NOTHING about this robot is "inferior".

-John

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I completely agree. We have become so caught up in the semantics of these designs. There will be many different designs that will win regionals. Right now it is definitely too early to predict what will be the "be all end all design" (not that there ever will be). We have somewhat been debating shooter versus dumper and yet the ultimate will probably be a blend of the 2. 254, 148, 968, and 100 have built robots that lean more towards a "dumper" design but they are still shooting balls some distance. We (1771) lean more towards the "shooter" side of things with being able to aim more precisely, but at the same time we can still empty an entire hopper in under 3 seconds. Both designs have positives and negatives, but as long as each team takes the time to think of these and develop a strategy to take advantage of their strengths, they will have a winning design.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

....and all of the robots can each only start with seven balls, so loading and harvesting, which depend on payload specialist skill and driver skill, will still play a very large role.

Robots like 254s and 148s will make the game more exciting, and it'll be a pleasure to watch them in action!

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I'm inclined to agree with this statement.

As for "shooters" vs. "dumpers," it's all a matter of execution, strategy, and operation. There will be succesful teams with both designs.
Now, I don't think most "shooters" will function in the way that a majority of the community originally seemed to think they would. I don't think that is a viable strategy, or would even be a highly succesful one if it was.
Granted, there will be some teams who may capably pull it off, but they are the same type of teams that could win a championship building a tiny nine-sided robot with no manipulator.

Without tipping my hand too much, there will be a role, and an important role, for shooter teams with the right design. In fact, there are various different incarnations this role can manifest in, but with similar features.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Of course, we are all saying this without having seen 71's robot yet. I am preparing to be blown away.




.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Particularly since they apparently had enough time to make a border-line, full feature length film during the build season. I am possibly more scared than I am from seeing these past few uber-dumper-shooter monsters

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

2v3 matches are also what keeps robots like this from being invincible. 1114 could win matches last year with two toasters for partners. This year, any short-handed alliance is going to have a huge uphill climb if they're down 40 at the end of auton, and even a spectacular machine will have difficulty recovering because of the limited number of game pieces.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Before everyone scraps thier design and gives 254 the championship trophy, remember, you just saw a 7 second clip of them unloading a hopper full of balls into a stationary goal. How many times during the year do you think they will be able to fill up thier robot and empty it into a stationary goal? Just about as many times Kyle Boller throw the ball from his through the goalpost from 50 yards out in the NFL; impressive but won't win you many games. How well does it load? Does it ever get jammed (for all we know this is the tenth take), is it fast enough to even get close to trailors? Is it good at avoiding other teams from scoring on them? I'm positive the other aspects of this robot is just as impressive, but just remember there probably will be more ways than win.

Anyway, great looking robot as usual.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Your right the goal will probably be moving when they fill it up or they will pin you for 2 secs. Hats off to you and 968 great bot.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

All will be answered in due time, but to answer some of your questions:

We doubt goals will ever be stationary, but if they are, we'd love to do what you see in that video to them.

We took this video because we thought the end to 148's video was awesome, and figured we should copy them and try to up the ante a little bit ;)

It loads great, no jamming problems (This was not the tenth take-do this 100 times and that's what you'll get every time).

Has there ever been any question about whether a 254 bot is speedy enough?

To answer some of the earlier questions:

Our hopper is made of 0.0625" polycarb. Thanks to the generosity of Team 148 and Innovation First (We love IFI!) we were able to get the entire hopper punched out of a single sheet of polycarb. We bent it up on our sheet metal break in our lab and riveted/bolted the hopper together/to the super structure frame.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Wow, looking fantastic. Can't wait for Vegas.

This is a thread about 254's robot.

254 built an amazing dumper, and clearly one of the best of the season (yeah, we can make that call now).

You're pretty much trying to justify your decision to build a shooter, by making a shooter versus dumper argument in a thread about their robot.

Make another thread about it, or start that talk in the threads about your robot (which by the way is looking pretty solid and has a totally sick color scheme).

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I just realized no one has really commented on this.

So not only can they score amazingly well, they are fast and maneuverable? That's going to be tough to beat.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Did everyone forget about defense after overdrive? If anyone hasn't noticed it's back if you want to play some.

But seriously 254 it looks good, looking forward to seeing this beast in Atlanta.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

While it would stink for their alliance to be down like that, I would pay to watch 254 battle a 40 point deficit. Talk about spectacular. :eek:

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Although its still there, there's that thing called coefficient of friction. I wouldn't call it real "defense" but perhaps "strategic operations." =P For me real defense is pushing the living daylights out of an opposing team while still having one of the fastest bots on the field...I likes my carpets.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Have you seen any matches? You can easily push a robot the length of the field. Defense will be the same as any other year, maybe easier.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Can we borrow one of those?

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

We never thought of using our 10ft sheet metal break for the polycarb.
And now we know. We were using a heat roller to make bends.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

If our drive team ever unloads 40 balls onto the floor they will be scrubbing the floor of our shop with toothbrushes

We designed for this situation. In a perfect match this is when our scoring will take place

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

God you have a nice shop!

Polycarb bends real nice actually, I've bent .031" and .062" with no problems before. I've tried .125", and it sometimes tears at the edges of the bends.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Its amazing. Our shooter can shoot from up to 26 feet away on a turret though so we can shoot the whole match, while you all are chasing people around. It still looks amazing though.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I really didn't mean to turn it into a shooter versus dumper study. I hope you didn't mind Cory. I think this is without a doubt one of the best bots I have seen and probably will see this year. I always am anxious to see the 254/968 bots and this year might actually be my favorite one yet. They just keep getting more refined.

Great job again Cory and the rest of the team!!!

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

IM afraid... VEEEERY afraid O_O

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Cory, loving the sick frame, reminds me of our frame that we made last year (and the year before and the year before...). That is one of the coolest bots i've ever seen. Whatz the weight (under 120) and how many balls are gonna be available. I like both forms of scoring but how many balls are really gonna be there to pick up?

Nice Job Poofs/RAWC,

Can't wait to play against you at Nationals

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

In the era of the three team alliance there is a place for everyone. Even the elite robots need support. It's tough to win matches on your own nowadays. If you do one thing well,, are reliable and work well with others those elite teams tend to notice those kind of robot and oft times want them.
Just because your robot is not elite status does not make it worthless. How you use it and carry yourself as a team that will make it far more valuable than you can possibly imagine.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

How well does it load?

Look back to 2006. I don't think their hopper is any smaller than it was back then. My feeling is that teams with the capability to pick up balls from the floor and human player will opt to use the human player just like they did in 2006.

A team as smart as 254 would have certainly spent the time to train a human player to near perfection to take keep the drivers' hair from falling out while trying to chase down balls on this rigolith surface and to do it in a timely fashion to keep them from being a big old target.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Great point that you brought up.
Will teams lean towards a floor harvester or human loader if they can do both?
In '06, you didnt have to worry about the HP, but now you do as you travel around the field.
Nonetheless, this bot can do both. :D

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

thy trailor runneth over?

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I 100% agree with this! These designs are truely amazing but if the driver is too slow with pickup then it wouldn't matter anyway and they would only get maybe 1 oppurtunity to dump and if they don't have someone pinning that could go awry too. This game especially dumpers put a huge emphasis on driving ability.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I Love it.

It has to be by far one of the best looking robots I've seen in a while. It looks almost like a bat...

On to the technical stuff though, could you show a close up of you bumper mounts if you haven't already? I know a lot of teams didn't go with cantilevered wheels because of the bumpers this yeah and I'd like to see the solution you came up with.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

:eek:wow:eek: that's a lot of balls and fast we can't do that many that fast

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I'm not sure how many teams actually got to play against them at the scrimmage. Maybe they can post their experiences too.

As for us, we got to play with them for about 1.5 min (before both bots took damage).

In this time they were able to easily fill their hopper and unload it into stationary trailers twice.

They literally drove circles around our bot.

That being said, they weren't able to score on us. Even with our lumbering beast of a bot we were still able to swing the trailer around enough to prevent them from scoring.

Of course their PS got like 15 rocks into our trailer :yikes: I came expecting an epic 254 robot... I did not expect to get flogged by their PS!

SVR will be lunacy indeed this year.... Lunacy indeed...

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Your robot scares me and makes me drool at the same time! I so want to see your robot in person, as long as it's not on the other side of the "crater"!

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

floor harvester because a human player is a source of error, any team that's been doing FRC as long as the Poofs and RAWC know that less chance of human error (ie scoring on yourself) the better.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Floor harvesting takes some time and skill too....and it doesn't work on bouncing balls, either.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

yea but your PS only has the remaining 14 balls in his bucket, if you want to fill your hopper with 40 balls, your going to have to pick up any ball you can get.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

You've got to love the consistency of Team 254. Year after year they produce elegant and inspiring robots. This year looks to be no exception.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

There is a big difference in rules between 2006 and now, however:
-In 2006, you could have all 3 human players loading your robot at once. This year, HPs can't leave their stations
-In 2006, sitting still didn't make you a huge target to get scored on
-In 2006, the HPs ball supplies were constantly replenished.

Also, this robot is insane. It never ceases to amaze me how simple some teams can make their robot, and how effective those simple robots end up being.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Poofs -

Looks great. Fantastic robot as usual. Good luck this season!

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

We traditionally assign push-ups for things like this. I like your idea. We've got plenty of regolith that needs scrubbing!

-John

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Once again an amazing robot from 254/968, this guys have inspired me with their designs ever since I joined FIRST. The quality in their robots is marvelous, and the effectiveness of their designs is impeccable.

After seeing their traction control video, I am convinced that this two robots will dominate.

Congratulations to both teams for another inspiring robot.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Honestly that is the scariest 7 second video I've seen in my life.

If you guys get someone pinned into a wall, game over!

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

Well hopefully if you are the other alliance you will just attempt to keep as many balls off the floor as possible

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

It human loads too.

Re: Team 254's 2009 Robot - "Devastator"
 

I have one word for your bot, SSSSICK!!!!!!!!!!!!