Chief Delphi - Batteries Carried Into Competitions

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Batteries Carried Into Competitions

There are a few new questions that have been posted in the Q+A regarding batteries. Go to the forums for the specific questions, but the answers are below. That this means is that if you are going to carry in batteries -

1. if they are assembled (connectors added) - then they count as part of your withholding allowance

2. if they are not assembled, they are COTS items and do not count against your withholding allowance.

Quote:

1: Spare batteries, in their unmodified form (i.e. WITHOUT connectors or battery leads installed) would be considered COTS items. COTS items may be brought to the competition events in unlimited quantities, under Rule <R35>. Batteries that have leads and connectors attached would be MECHANISMS and FABRICATED ITEMS, and would fall under the corresponding constraints. Therefore:
a : yes, this is a FABRICATED ITEM
b : if it is hand-carried to an event, then it must be factored into the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE

2: For the purposes of the FIRST Robotics Competition, just cycling a battery through charge/discharge cycles will not be considered a modification of the battery. Therefore, it may still be considered a COTS item (assuming it has not been assembled into a MECHANISM as described above).

3: For the purposes of the FIRST Robotics Competition, if the battery has been assembled into a MECHANISM for use during the build season that is later disassembled into the original COMPONENTS, then the battery may still be considered a COTS item.

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

I should go back to school for a law degree so that I can have a shot at being on the GDC.

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

just wow....there are rules and then there is stuff like this. Its not like you could possibly gain some advantage coming in with their batteries wired up. It just seems like the GDC is nit-picking what counts as a "Fabricated Item", they should have just set a smaller weight allowance if that is what they really wanted to accomplish.....

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

So that means competitive teams who bring a bunch (8-10) of extra batteries must remove all the leads and reattach them at the competition? Only the competitive teams with the cash to send the extra batteries via a crate are not hindered by this ruling.

Sounds like an exception could have been made just for batteries and the leads attached to them...

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

As I posted over in the Withholding Allowance thread, I think this is ridiculous.

What I find the most bizarre is that if a battery with leads is a fabricated item then every team that carried more than 1 assembled battery into an event last year or in '07 was illegal.

The definitions of Fabricated Item, Replacement Parts, Spare Parts, and Upgrade Parts are all word-for-word identical between the 3 manuals. Therefore if an assembled spare battery counts against this year's Withholding Allowance it should have count against the 25 lb limit specified in the previous two years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008 FRC Competition Manual

<R41> Teams may bring a maximum of 25 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and/or UPGRADE PARTS) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2007 FRC Competition Manual

<R31> Teams may bring a maximum of 25 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and/or UPGRADE PARTS) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition must arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

Also, any teams that shipped these batteries in 2008 or 2009, but left the leads from previous years was/is in violation of rule <R27>.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2008 FRC Competition Manual

<R27> Prior to the Kick-off: Before the formal start of the Robot Build Season, teams are encouraged to think as much as they please about their ROBOTS. They may develop prototypes, create proof-of-concept models, and conduct design exercises. Teams may gather all the raw stock materials and COTS COMPONENTS they want. But absolutely no fabrication or assembly of any elements intended for the final ROBOT is permitted prior to the Kick-off presentation.

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

Vikesrock is right. Even if batteries with leads are in a crate they are illegal. Good catch. Why is it an issue this year if it has been the same for the past 2? I guess it's a common sense thing. Something that didn't really need to be lawyered.

Is this a potential safety issue? Team's rushing on practice day to reattach leads to multiple batteries?

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

What I am not understanding about this ruling is making an assembled battery count towards your withholding allowance is something a team can fairly easily overcome.

Bring in wire and anderson connectors/crimps and assemble your batteries thursday morning...that is a pretty simple job for almost anyone on the team to do. Why force us to go through tons of wire and connectors for the simple task of carrying the batteries through a door into the competition?

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

Utterly ridiculous. There's nothing else to be said about it.

Let's hope this is brought to someone higher up and a bit of sanity and common sense is applied to the issue.

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

Okay so, I am going to get to the competition, take the connectors off the battery; when I get through the door, I will put them back on. It's only 2 bolts right? I am lost of words.

... Maybe, FIRST should have someone in the pit who is willing to put in those extra 5 mins to put the batteries together (heck, maybe there should be someone who is going to put together all the batteries for all teams attending the regional). I don't know about any other teams; but those 5 minutes me and my kids are going to waste on the batteries are very valuable to us on Thursday when we get to the regional.

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

I just hope they have enough spares to cover the teams who mis-wire their battery in the rush and blow out their Jaguars, Victors, Spikes, Analog Breakouts, etc...

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

I just don't see the point. There are tons of places where teams are on the honor code, why not just trust that teams haven't modified the batteries, and make them an exception to the withholding allowance. This produces tons of extra work for no foreseeable benefit or purpose.

And we get to do this at every competition....

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

Simple answer: the GDC is committing acts of Lunacy with the way THEY'RE lawyering the rules this year.

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

This is a very bad joke , right?

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

My last post was a bad joke. It remains to be seen if the whole battery-without-leads-or-its-not-COTS thing is a bad joke.

Re: Batteries Carried Into Competitions

This may be the dumbest ruling in GDC history!