Pre season competition alliance
 

After seeing a ton of bots, what alliance do u think will win week 1. My bet: 1 turret and 2 dumpers.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

2 dumpers and 1 box on wheels with the capability to hold most if not all the balls...

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Either

1.)Power dumper
2.)Power dumper
3.)Collector/Empty Cell specialist/Defensive Specialist

or

1.)Shooter
2.)Power dumper
3.)Collector/Empty Cell specialist/Defensive Specialist

Now this is what I think will be good for regionals, championship is a whole different story.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

its gonna be three dumpers, or two shooters and a dumper:D

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

two shooters and a dumper at champ maybe but no way in week one will shooters be powerful enough to have 2 of them on an alliance...

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

2 dumpers and 1 shooter.
1 will have a propeller.
all 3 will pick up from the floor.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

2 Shooters/Dumpers, doesn't really matter
1 Bot that plays well with others

We're only talking about week 1 here

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

My idea of a perfect alliance for regionals would be two amazing scorers. This can be a combination of dumper and shooter or two shooters or two dumpers. I believe the strongest alliance would have one shooter and one dumper, both able to fill a goal in one go. The third robot just needs to have excellent drivers, nothing else. With lower amounts of scoring talent at regionals, alliance captains should carefully consider better drivers for a third robot rather than another scoring machine. Scoring capabilities for the third robot would be nice, but I don't think we will see that sort of alliance until Champs. The third robot would be used for strategic pinning and would protect the scorers of the alliances trailers while they are scoring. This is my prediction for the perfect regional alliance. It will be interesting to see the different strategies that develop along the way and how different types of robots will be used.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

As far as standard regionals go, I think you have:

1 good shooter
1 good dumper
1 average ball manipulator with a good PS/ good drivetrain

I agree with the prop assesment (I would though, because we have a prop)

And I think that one of the final alliances on Einstein will be:

Super power dumper
Super shooter
Decent ball manipulator with a prop that can just bulldoze through people

We'll see

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I don't think that 1 will have a prop just because I don't see lots of teams using a propeller. I agree that they will pick up from the the floor though, for now at least...

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

The alliance with 3 good members aka the 3-5 alliances.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Team #'s:
148, 85, 107

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

It's up to you guys to determine what I mean. :P

For week one:
1. Alexander Ovechkin
2. Mike Green
3. Sean Avery (Donald Brashear or Claude Lemieux also work) with a good human player.

Alternate alliance:
1. Pavel Datsyuk (Henrik Zetterberg if unavailable)
2. Zach Parise
3. Mark Streit

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

i think two shooter bots and one defense/runner to run around and toy with the other hot shooters for the other alliance.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

We really like 85 and 107, but don't think a week 1 victory is in the cards for us.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

"My ideal alliance would be 2 robots that can just score like crazy, each able to fill a goal in 2 seconds. The 3rd robot would be able to just pin everyone on the other team in the corner and hold them for the whole match. Human players able to consistently score from over 1/2 court, and it would be nice if the team colors of the 3 teams matched"

You can dream cant you?

But in all honesty, you are not necessarily going to have robots at the 1st week regionals capable of all out domination, and forming an ultimate alliance.

In my experience, 1st week regionals require 2 robots that are very ahead of the curve and thats about it to win. I've seen a regional final where 1 of the robots on the winning alliance did not move for the entire match. Uniting 2 teams decently ahead of the curve, and adding a 3rd robot that can at least drive with its head on straight will win a week 1 comp.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I say one power dumper, one shooter, a fridge bot (to store balls), and someone from the NBA would definitly win.:D

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

An alliance captain who knows what's up, a solid first pick to back it up, and a sufficient scouting system to get the diamond in the rough for the 3rd pick.

I'm betting on two high volume robots (dumpers or very fast shooters), and a third partner with average scoring ability, but high manuverability, with a very skilled human player and a very skilled drive team.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

1 shooter, 1 dumper, and 1 good PS with a good empty/supercell manipulating robot

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

i'm going with for week 1, a couple dumpers and a team with a BA human player...

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I'm gonna say, 1 awesome shooter, 2 power dumpers. Drivetrain will be very important this year, and I personally think that the winners will have some form of swerve, or a gyroscope, or a good propeller.

Power dumper by my definition means 15+ balls in 4 seconds, with 1-3 feet of range.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

3 Squarebots with Lebron James, Chris Paul and Paul Pierce as HP

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I am just thinking but I beleive an alliance composed of a power shooter, a power dumper and a bot that can vary (meaning it can carry empty cells, and score and pin, when neccasary), with at least 2 bastetball players that have been training. The outpost payload specialist would have to be very alert and understand how each robot works and adapt well, and also have a decent shot in case a robot does not move at the begginning of autonomous. I don't beleive that the third bot should specialize in empty cell running, I beleive it should be able to well but be useful elsewhere when and if neccesary.

$0.02

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

As much as I love this..lol..

I would have to say it depends on the robots at the regional. If there are alot of shooters that arent preforming than, i beleive that its gonna be a dumpers win.

Personally, 2 Dumpers and a really good shooter. I doubt you will ever see 3 shooters unles, 217,1114, 148 hook up at Nationals. heheh

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Shooter tracking with camera, mass dumper, and tilt/pneumatic dumper

103, 25, and 11 :rolleyes:

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Week one:
1. A robot that scores unlike anyone else. Dangerous from anywhere on the ice, er, regolith. Just pure domination. Takes care of whiners too.

2. Its main job is to stop other robots from scoring, but is a deadly scorer as well.

3. Makes teams explode with their lack of GP...just kidding. :P
Makes life miserable for the opponent's top scorer; goads them into making mistakes.

Alternate Alliance
1. Slick scoring machine, but plays a bit of D as well.
2. Complements the top bot by scoring a bunch as well. Has the ability to take over games.
3. Strong defensive bot with a howitzer for a shot (read: quick dumper).

Hmm, not too shabby for a Canuck. :D
Personally, the alternate alliance seems to be more formidable to me as there are two dangerous scorers on the ice, oops, regolith at the same time.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

many people have been saying that a basketball player would be a good HP... imho, i think that is a terrible choice... if you think about it, a basketbll player always takes a shot at a stationary rim. Even when passing, their teammates aren't moving that much... i think that a quarterback would be the best choice. They are paid to throw balls to recievers who are pn the run. they can throw deep, throw short, and throw it into tight spaces... they can anticipate where the target is going to be, not where it is, and that is why they would make a better HP than a bball player...

summary: McNabb, Brady, Manning (either) > Paul, Bryant, Lebron at being a human player

sorry for the rant, i was on a roll... :D

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Sorry man gotta disagree here. Even though basketball players shoot at a stationary goal, they put arcs on their shots. On our team we have the varsity football player and a varsity basketball player. The football dude tends to through the ball different and it doesn't work so well. While a trained basketball player can throw the ball with one hand or two hands. Also our basketball player makes a ration of 3:1 compared to the football dude. Also its not very hard adjusting to a slow moving goal.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Close for most of them, but not quite right. ;)

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

if you are looking for the most similarity in throwing I would suggest you talk to some soccer players. The two hand overhead throw, accomplished by someone who knows how to do it, is very accurate and powerful. It can be accomplished at a running target... or stationary...and you can use arc to get over players...

When I was in college one of my teammates could throw more than halfway across the field extremely accurately. It was like getting an extra corner kick when we got a throw in. He did it with a step and close technique..not a running start...

We scored a number of goals off of headers with his accurate and powerful throws...

Talk to your soccer players...

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

1114 and two bricks to pin their opponent into a corner (This is a winning week 1 combination, IMO)

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

This. The important thing this year will be having three good members, and In this case I consider "good" to most importantly being good drivers. A single weak robot one an alliance could spell that alliance's doom, because that is going to be the bullseye of the alliance, the one that everyone hunts down mercilessly. There will be no carried alliances.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I think every alliance needs two robots to play as scoring members and one robot that plays for Empty Cells and Plays Defense. It'd be nicer for the third robot to have scoring capabilities but, they're not that important as long as that robot is strong elsewhere.

IMO, I think this year we're going to see a lot of mid-numbered alliances winning. Alliances 3,4,5,6 will have much better selections than 1 or 2. This is not the year you want to drag a robot to victory.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Somehow I think their week one opponents like 71, 111, and 217 might be able to best that. ;)

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I disagree with this sentiment and I'm not sure why it's so common.

This year there is going to be an even bigger gap between the good robots and the bad robots. There will probably be fewer good/elite robots than in year's past, which means having the number one pick is all the more important. Especially at regionals, where most regionals really only have 1-2 robots who are very very good.

If you're picking from the #3-5 spot, you get a better second pick, but your first pick is probably a significantly worse scorer than the #1 pick of the regional. I'd rather have an alliance with 1114, 148, and a third bot that can drive very well than an alliance of three average scoring robots, or two average scoring robots and a very good defender/pinner.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

This is amplified by the fact that it's a week 1 regional, and dominant teams who've had test/tweak time already will significantly outperform historically dominant teams who have not been able to tweak.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

You may be basing this on robots' pictures that you've seen but I highly disagree. There will be a big gap in the teams that were able to practice on full fields and had at least a full week to debug autonomous camera tracking, and tele-op camera tracking. There's bots that might look similar in functionality but based on teams we've talked to its still the same team numbers who actually know what they are doing and its clear who will come out on top.

+Its a bit more leveled this year, but not a big difference from previous years.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

People say that every year. And frankly, while it is much more common in the serpentine era, 50% of the time the #1 still wins at the regional level.

At the Championship level, the playing field has been considerably leveled and the #1 does have less success in the serpentine era. Whether that's because of the 3rd partner or purely because of 85 teams and 7 matches not yielding accurate rankings is a debate for another time.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Sean,

Do you know the percentages prior to the serpentine draft? IIRC someone on the GDC compiled it and it was astronomical but I don't know if I've ever actually seen any numbers.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Think about it this year though. In previous years if you didn't have good drivers maybe you didn't score much. Doesn't matter much when you have another team that has drivers who can outscore any two other robots (and sometimes three!)

But this year if you don't have a good driver you actually become a target! You make it easier for the other team to score. Imagine the ultimate scenario where one of your partners doesn't show up or can't move. In previous years not moving meant you didn't score, but you didn't actually detract from the team. This year you're trailer will be filled and you will actually be making it easier for your opponents to score.

That's why I think making sure that all three of your drive teams can play keep away is going to be the most important aspect of the alliance this year. Not being scored on is the most important thing, scoring is secondary. We'll have to wait to see for sure, but that is my prediction.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

i think you could even get away with one amazing dumper and 2 boxbots / herders. all they have to do is go around and pin!

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I agree, as long as those boxbots have the drivers needed to keep from being scored on.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Kids kids kids...we find out in like 6 hours :rolleyes:

Speaking of which...I need sleep...waking up in 3 hours. =P

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

Here's my prediction for NJ.
Team 25 will team up with 103 in '09. In '10, add 359 as their 3rd partner. hehe.
Oh! my bad, are we talking about types of robot alliances or teams that will align with each other.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

I think the 1st pick will be more important than ever, especially if a good robot is making the pick. With the assumption that any robot can drive a good drive team can impart some very important strategies to the third team. You cannot however teach a second pick how to score as easily.

My thoughts are if you can get a good enough second pick, that the third picks will have a much smaller gap (like previous years) in talent. And if you have the best robot on your team, then it is not scoring on you, hopefully.

Plus if you can get two robots that can pin you can essentially turn it into a one on one match against the robot of your choice. i would take one of the best robots at the competition verses the opponent of my choice.

I am foreseeing more wins from the top 2 alliances (#1,2), and in deep fields we may see the well rounded teams of the last alliances (#7, 8) winning more than the middle 4 alliances.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

IMHO After watching about an hour of really grainy and laggy videos, it looks like the average is around 60-ish right now. Human players are racking up the scores and the dumpers & power dumpers seem to be doing well. Haven't seen any awesome shooters yet, kinda hard to see the bots in the video.

Re: Pre season competition alliance
 

1 robot that can pin well, a power dumper, and a a team that can stay away from being scored on.