Human players are costing points
 

As predicted, human players are costing teams LOTS of points at DC regional.

The biggests one is that the Payload specialists on the refuling station are touching the super cells before the 20 sec.end game.

It's not enough to just wait to throw them, they can't even touch them before the last 20 seconds.

Please tell your PS's to WAIT.

Also, there are a lot of PS's that are thowing the Empty cells over the Outpost wall...... BAD.

Many teams are having their 40-50 points reduced to zero, so now is a great time for new and old teams to sit down qith their PS's and go over the 6-7 things that they can do to lose their team points.

Haven't seen a robot penalty yet !!

Phil

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I was watching the MWR webcast yesterday. I noticed that many (the majority) of penalties are from the PSs.

Teams, take this as good advice. It's completely unnecessary to lose a match since you picked up a super cell early.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Is there some sort of buzzer or something to let your PSs know that it's OK to throw super cells?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

YES
The now standard FIRST end of match sound effect from the Flintstones. Fred Flintstone burns foot sole in a fast take off in the family car.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Alot of teams are very unknowledgeable when it comes to the rules.
Especially the rookie teams.
That is why we do the drivers test which includes the human player.
Everyone on the drives team should know the rules!

Re: Human players are costing points
 

A lot of human players seem to be reaching into the field as well.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

we also do driver tests to make sure we know the rules...
i also recommend that you directly remind the other PS's on your alliance before each match.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Which I think is from entering empty cells. A quick and easy way to prevent that is to hold the empty cell with one hand and a moon/empty cell in the other and force the empty cell out when you are ready. That keeps your hands away from the hole edge and thus no penalties.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Yeah at jersey I experienced A LOT of teams who had payload specialists who knew nothing about the rules. Nothing against those teams but why would you send someone on the field who doesnt know the rules of the game?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Would you mind posting a copy of your driver's test?

TIA

Re: Human players are costing points
 

The penalties I saw were

1> Human player entering the field (through the outpost port) and
2> Human player picking up moonrocks before the match started.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

There were also a lot of foot faults.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Also not using the tongs has happened quite a bit. For instance in qualifying match 22 (DC Regional) one of our alliance partners cost us 50 points though repeated penalties for reaching in, luckily it did not change the outcome of the match.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Some of these mistakes may be nerves. I get nervous just watching from the stands. I can't imagine how drive teams and human players feel. If they break the rules once, even twice, give them a little bit of a break. Now 50 points is a little much.

Scouting could be used to help to find those teams who don't seem to know what's going on and help them. We have a section in our scouting for this and it helps to stregthen our alliance.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I know that in one of our matches, we got 4 penalties for another team's human player's hands crossing into the field while using the tongs to grab balls.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

yea that happened in the mwr...most of it was throwing the empty cells into play. I agree that it could be nerves, maybe people at the outposts don't always realize that they pick off the wall instead of from the bucket

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I actually had to chase down and drag back too the station an adult rookie team coach who inexplicably darted out of his station and ran over to the carts for something. I told himm to not ever leave the lines of the drivers station during a match. He honest had no idea. Alot of teams seem to be that way. They hav e no idea about the rules and I really think that is part of scouting: do teams understand and follow the rules? It's one thing to rate how productive your team is. It's another when the only thing you are contributing is a plethora of penalties.
Fred Needel had an interesting observation that I wholeheartedly agree with. It should be mandatory that rookie teams are pared off with a veteran team. If at the very least to make sure they understand the rules and procedures of what to do at an event. It stuns me how some teams come completely unprepared to a regional that goes beyond just the robot.. They are almost always late to queing, forget equipment constantly so they're not ready to run. They don't organize the kids who are mostly left to figure it out themselves and when they hit the field alot of them didn't even know what goal to score in. I just find that unacceptable. Teams had six weeks too download and absorb the rules, the least they can do was do that.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Our payload specialist received a penalty for throwing two balls at once, and it lost us the semi finals in Kansas City.

We did not find this until today.
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11772

What's done is done, but I hope in the future regionals the refs know the rules better.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Honestly I think it should be the team's job the know the rules and procedures. A veteran team shouldn't have to be responsible for another team. As a member of a veteran team, I know it would add a whole lot more work that we would have to do, and we don't have the time or man power to do it.
We were pared numerous times with rookie teams at MWR. Some didn't know rules, others didn't have bumpers, and a few had robots that had to rebuilt. We spent a lot of our time helping trying to help them out.
I'm all for helping teams out, but I think its unfair to shove responsibilities on to another team especially with this year's game and all the complications that come with it.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Well the reality is this: You can either help them learn the game or watch them play the role as an anchor and drag teams down to the bottom of the standings with them.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I saw this a lot at GSR. This is a major safety issue that teams need to watch for.

Another big penalty that is saw numerous times was PS's not buckling thier seatbelt in the chair and center field. This is an easy thing to forget. This is why we make sure it is one of the first think or PS does...

I saw this mainly when PS's were retrieving the bins of balls from behind then they would spin around and not see where they were lacing their feet. I also saw this as they were reaching into the airlock they would misplace their feet.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Perhaps it would be helpful to notify all the head refs.

I have not been at a drivers meeting in 4 years (since I was a member of the team) but perhaps the refs could quickly go over the important human player rules as well. It should only take another couple of minutes.

Do they include this information in the drivers meeting already?

Human players have been really helpful on our team. Ours is great. Personally, the game isn't my favorite because of the huge reliance on human player accuracy. But the floor is fun!

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Let's not be too hard on the human players. Yeah they should have known this and that and could have done this and that but its just the first week and now that the first games of the season are out of the way and everyone has seen the game being played I'm sure everyone will be watching videos as the pop up on you tube ect.. and teams playing next week are telling the PS what mistakes to avoid.

Good luck for the rest of the season!

-p :cool:

Re: Human players are costing points
 

At the New Jersey Regional, the head ref, Sky, did clarify and remind drive teams of the rules regarding Payload Specialist actions and the penalties they may incur; this took up the majority of the meeting.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

They also touched upon them at GSR

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Day 2 at MWR there were MANY fewer penalties, although we did see two for the Commander driving the robot - a DQ. Day 1 was like you said, tons of penalties for the empty cells over the wall and one DQ for touching a robot with the tongs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember ever announcing a penalty on a robot, only human players. It was kind-of nice to see the robots having free reign.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

You mean someone without the "DRIVER" badge (button, w/e) was driving the robot?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

It's not enough to just wait to throw them, they can't even touch them before the last 20 seconds.

did I miss that in the rules?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Almost every HP at the regional I went to this weekend cost their team points.

I wasn't paying attention to penalties.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

<G22> Exchanging EMPTY CELLS - When an EMTPY CELL exits the CRATER via a FUELING PORT, it is retrieved by the PAYLOAD SPECIALIST and stored on the CELL RACK. During the last 20 seconds of the MATCH, each EMPTY CELL in the FUELING STATION may be exchanged for a SUPER CELL. Once an EMPTY CELL has been exchanged for a SUPER CELL, it can not re-enter play. Violations will result in a PENALTY.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

At Jersey there were a ton of human player penalties, most of them were from people ignorant of the rules. I am one of the two human players on my team and neither of us got a penalty.

Here are the main penalties I saw:

1. Tossing Empty cells - it has to go through the hole

2. When delivering Empty cell the human - Your hand can not enter the field
players hand went through the hole in anyway

3. Getting out of the chair before the match - you have to stay seated

4. Not using the tongs

5. The tongs extending on to the field - The tongs like your hands can
not enter the field


6. Tossing Super cells without empty cells - Need the empty cell

7. Tossing Super cells before last 20 seconds

8. Tossing wrong Super cell - You have to toss the super cell directly across -
from the empty cell you put on the rack
This is what I was told so I'm not sure how many
penalties occurred in regard to this, but double
check with your refs.

A lot of teams lost because of their human player. I saw close wins become huge defeats just because of penalties (sometimes as many as five penalties). So make sure you talk to your alliance partners because these penalties add up very fast.

DavidB

Re: Human players are costing points
 

ouch!

Using the tongs wouldn't hurt so much, but they also can't extend onto the field, right?

(I'm sorry, I can't resist a good spelling error)

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Right, they can go under the lexan shield protecting the HP, but they can't extend through the opening that the robot pushes the balls through. I saw a team get a 10 point penalty because it extended less than an inch.

Haha yeah that is a pretty bad spelling error (slaps head). I guess I'm in need of sleep :).

Re: Human players are costing points
 

But on the FIRST Forums they said you could throw two balls at once. Unless I am mistaken and they did not say that.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Hmm I don't know... from what I'm reading, the rules vary a bit from regional to regional.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

This is not true. If this is being called at any future events without a Team Update I recommend teams bring the following Q&A to the attention of the Head Ref

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11772

Unless someone can show me a rule or Q&A that says this I would dispute this with the Head Ref as well.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I didn't find a rule against throwing multiple balls, can someone point it out to me?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I don't think there is a rule against throwing multiple balls. It should be allowed but I heard of teams being penalized for it so I guess all the teams should have their Game manuals and team updates ready just in case.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Only thing possible for a ref to call a penalty is rule G40, and it does not state it one way or another.

But I thought that was what the First forum was for; clarifications so teams are penalized by the rules only, and they are not open to interpretation.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I would encourage this as well... and bring this Q&A with you. While it isn't a ruling on intent, it does say that the refs aren't supposed to give penalties that they can't back up with the rules.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

This was explained at the Scrimmage before ship where they used the official FIRST field in CT.
I'll admit this came as a shock to me, but then again, I have not read every single Q&A question & answer on the subject of Super Cells.

Can someone find some hard evidence that this IS in fact a rule this year???

I'd like to see it in writing somewhere.
(Preferably somewhere else other than JUST the Q&A).

Edit: By the way, I only see a Q&A rule (with a quick search of the term Super Cell) on making sure the Empty Cell is used in the same Fueling Port area that the Payload Specialist is (limiting a Payload Specialist in that area to only use 2 Super Cells no matter how many Empty Cells get delivered) - but nothing mentioning taking it from the EXACT opposite peg hook.
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...ght=Super+Cell

Anyone care to clarify the rule that says it must be used from the exact opposite peg hook in that Fueling Station?
If nobody can find one by Tuesday night, I WILL be posting a question on the Q&A.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Q&A would even be fine for me, but from my memory and a search of the Q&A there is no such post there and I also cannot find this in the rules.

I am totally fine with this being enforced this way IF they issue a Team Update or even a Q&A (but preferably an update) that clarifies that this is a rule punishable by penalty if violated.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

There isn't any. Not Q&A, not Bill's Blog (not that that's official), not in any revision of the Manual that I've seen.

ONLY in the Kickoff video, and I think that was the animation. If it was even there.

The only place I can think of would be in the ref manual, or whatever their documentation of that sort is. Not being a ref, I don't have access to that, and a penalty of that nature should be in Section 7 of the Game Manual anyway.

And there certainly isn't a penalty called out, other than MAYBE egregious behavior (which is a card, not a penalty (<T05>)).

Has anyone asked Q&A?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

::sigh:: lol
I didn't want to make this an issue, but if some competitions are enforcing this, & some aren't going to be because it's not written for teams & they are thus surprised by this penalty, then this is a bad situation. :(

I will get access to our team's Q&A Username & password & ask this there to be clarified.

I don't actually mind this being a penalty, but I would like to see this being stated officially somewhere - ya know?

If only it was myself who had missed it in the rules, I would think that's ok, & not a big deal, but if the majority of CD members thoughts here is that it is not in the rules, but is being penalized (which it has been at events I've been to since the Scrimmage before ship date) then I kinda have a big problem with that.

I shall report back to these forums when I get the answer!
Until then.

-E

Edit: I just submitted the question & am awaiting a reply.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

While I agree for the most part with what everyone has been saying about the penalties being almost exclusively with the human players, in our case it was our human player that saved our bacon more than once! He was absolutely beastly with the super cells! Part of our strategy was to collect the empties and deliver them to the air-lock. Because of our reversible conveyor that was pretty effective. It worked even better when an alliance partner could run a pick for us to keep us from getting our trailer filled while we did it.
The only thing I found strange was how many penalties were incurred for throwing an empty cell over the wall, even on experienced teams! I guess in the excitement they are just grabbing the wrong one.
The Robo-Lions will be "roaring" again at Chesapeake. See you there!;)

Re: Human players are costing points
 

90% of pentalites at Traverse City were on PS. But fouls quickly decreased though out the day (40 points down in one match can do that).

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Before our Drivers & Human Players can even be concidered for that position they must pass a written test on the game rules.
Linked are copies of several tests from the past few years.

http://lightningrobotics.com/files/?...20Season/Tests

Re: Human players are costing points
 

In the heat of battle the empty cell can fall into the bin and be picked up and thrown in. This happened to our human player. It was his only penalty and it didn't cost us a match.

He said as the ball was leaving his hand he saw what color it was and tried to stop but it was too late.

He never threw another ball without looking at the color first. All outpost specialist should do the same.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Yeah, the Commander/Coach button is unique - it has a green dot. Either the driver wore the wrong badge or the coah was the only one who showed up and figured that someone needed to drive.

What robot penalties did you see, XXShadowXX?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Yes, happened to us too. We were equally lucky, but only just :)

Maybe a good team give-away would be a handy dandy PS "don't do this" card.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Or elctro-shock collars (with remote control) for their Payload specialists.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Might count as remote communication, sorry.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

How about tossing poppers at them then?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I saw a few robot penalties in KC. Three or four red cards for losing the trailer (which got called as an S01 violation), plus a couple of penalties for multiple empty cell possession.

The payload specialists committed the vast majority of penalties. In approximate order of frequency: breaking the plane of the outpost shield while throwing over, hands in the airlock, empty cells over the wall, touching the super cells early, foot faults, and one early super cell throw.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Ah yes, losing the trailer. That happened at MWR once too. Lots of confusion because an ally robot died at the same time so it looked like the field controllers disabled the wrong robot.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Here is the 2009 X-Cats Driver Test

Some aspects have been changed to focus on Human Player Aspects of the game.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I just heard back from the GDC & it is disheartening news for week 1 Regional teams who were penalized for this very action.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...ght=Super+Cell

Strong emphasis mine!

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I was going to post the same exact thing -- in auton our robot smashed into our outpost station and knocked empty cells into the bins. Our HP picked up one and put it back onto the rack, but didn't realize a 2nd had fallen. As he threw it in, he had a darth vader moment ("NOOOOOOOOOO!").

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Is there anyting in the rules that say those Empty Cells have to stay on the rack until they are used by the PS (minus falling of course)??

Re: Human players are costing points
 

no, the only requirement is that they start the match on the hook.

It seems like a good idea to leave them there so you don't accidentally throw one.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

That sounds good in theory but the problem with that is they tend to fall off (by chance, or by a robot hitting the shield) & be mixed in with the other regular ones in the bins.
I will be advising my PS's in the Outposts to take them off the rack & maybe put them at their feet to seperate them from the others to avoid being thrown over the wall accidentally - or as soon as the match is started, to take them off the walls & do some sorting of the bins so that one is Empty's & one is regular cells.
Either case should help & not be too time consuming. Hopefully! lol

Re: Human players are costing points
 

We are making such cards to bring to our competitions this year.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

We were penalized once in KC for our PS picking up two cells at once. Not throwing them mind you but having one in each hand at the same time.

In KC it was throw one, bend over, pick up the next one.

Everyone looked like those drinking duck toys.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't see any rule requiring that human players only hold one of any game piece (robots are another story, but human player != robot).

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I think you should have contested that penalty.

I also think drivers/HPs should have a list of questions prepared for the driver's meeting.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

FYI: That is NOT a penalty based on a GDC answer and has been discussed before in this very thread as well:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=18

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=11772

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I completely agree that it shouldn't have been a penalty but KC was visited many times with field problems and they were trying very hard to keep things moving.

That time and one other (when the controller for the red alliance rebooted in the middle of match and shut down the whole alliance) we were ushered off the field and not given a chance to protest. Or maybe more accurately were discouraged to do so.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

It stuns me to find out that the KC regional refs made such a huge mistake. The GDC expects every team to be responsible for knowing the rules, even the rookie teams that get punished at the events for not knowing the rules completely (or even really knowing that they should know them.) As a referee for the game, I'd expect you to have 100% knowledge of every game rule and every Q&A thread relating to the game. Anything less than that detracts from the game and causes unnecessary harm to teams.

Also, I noticed a number of times at the NJ regional that mid-station HP's threw empty cells over the wall without being penalized because no refs saw it happen. In my opinion, this game is hard to follow as an observer and seems even harder to regulate and score. In the future, I hope the GDC will see how a game like this comes out in the end and avoids the problems we have seen this year.

(No hard feelings to refs, especially in the FIRST week. You didn't know how the game was going to come out before this past weekend either, but to decide a whole regional on an assumption of a rule that has already been answered by the Q&A? The Q&A is sorted by category...at least lead the part that pertains to your job at the event...)

Re: Human players are costing points
 

One more question for everyone just to be clear.

We all know that having "The tongs extending onto/into the field" = BAD & may result in a penalty.

What defines "The Field" in this instance?

1) Past the edge of the Airlock border? (Metal Rails)
or
2) Past the Alliance Station wall? (past & under)

My thought right now is that it is number 1.
Is this correct?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

At Midwest the PS was allowed to grab any ball that the tethered tongs could reach, even if it was past the airlock. The thing was that if they touched a robot at all, they would be disqualified from the match.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

yes

<G40>D. The PAYLOAD SPECIALISTS is permitted to reach through the FUELING PORT with the provided tongs to manipulate GAME PIECES in the “dead space” between the AIRLOCK and the FUELING PORT. However, any contact with a ROBOT while doing so will be considered a violation of Rule <S02>.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I just actually re-read that revised part (per Update #3) & was about to retract my statement.
Thanks!!

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I feel this has been hashed and re-hashed here before but I can't seem to find it anywhere....

The most updated rules say "If a SUPERCELL is REMOVED from the CELL RACK before the last 20 seconds of the MATCH then two (2) PENALTIES will be assigned"

This dosen't say anything about not being able to "touch" it(EX. place your hand on it to be ready at the 20 second mark.)

I say as long as it stays on the cell rack then it's NOT a penalty. Can anyone please confirm/refute this for me.Thanks.

-Justin

Re: Human players are costing points
 

OK, I was trying to stress the point that they couldn't even be picked up before the 20 seconds (teams seemed to think it was only a penalty if your threw them befor 20 warning). I wasn't trying to insist that you couldn't actually lay a hand on them (my-bad for not being literal enough :).

However, if you are counting on a referee to make that touch/remove distinction during the heat of the game, I think you are asking for trouble. If a referee sees the PS reach over and place a hand on the cell before the 20 second warning, they "may" jump to the conclusion that it was going to be removed....

If they call the penalty, then you are faced with the problem of convincing them you only touched it, and didn't actually "remove" it. What if you trip, and actually rock the ball in it's holder?.... is it removed or not?..... another jugement call.

Is that split second advantage worth the potential grief, and penalty?
That's a call only you can make, but be ready to defend your actions.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Oh yeah. Tossing an Empty Cell over the outpost wall cost a match and dropped us 15 places in the standings.

Not using the tongs in the airlock cost us six penalties.

Half of our losses were mistakes that could have been prevented.

For those who have not played a regional yet, read the rules in Section 7 of the rules and make sure you have the latest update. Seriously, save yourself some grief

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Too bad there's no wireless!:rolleyes:

Re: Human players are costing points
 

We were at Kettering district and had won five matches and than lost them to team alliance penalties. You can imagine what this did to our rankings. We went from 8th place all the way down to 36. Our drivers could not have done a better job. We would pick the best team and than lock them down so they could not score. The teams really need to go over the empty cells and power cells rules with there human players.
We would not let our kids play if they did not know the rules.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

ok so should a penalty be called if the ref said the human player touched it?

i see your point why bother but, in the case the a HP does touch it the refs need to know it's not a penalty

if the refs can't do tell the different the rule should be changed

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I'm a little confused on when empty cells can be put into play by the HP, can they do it during autonomous, or only during tele?

Re: Human players are costing points
 

No restriction that I'm aware of. It's the Super Cells that have the restrictions.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I was the human player for team 213 at the Boston regional. I did not have any penatlies against me (phew, i was worried the whole time). One game we had we should have won but the human player kept reaching is hand into the bin instead of using the claw. This cost of 40 points. Many human players kept doing this and I couldn't out for the life of me why. Another major problem for human players was that they were touching the glass when they put the empty cells through the holes. DON'T DO THIS!!! I watched teams get penalized in the finals for this.
Good luck to everyone and make sure your human players don't touch the glass and use the pinchers to get the balls out of the bin!!!! this will save you a lot of heartaches

Re: Human players are costing points
 

There's no rule against picking moon rocks out of the bin with your hands. I think you misunderstood what was going on. I hope you did -- if penalties were being assigned for a legal action, something is very wrong.

What matches did you see these penalties in? I'd like to find out what the referees were actually calling. There's no rule against "touching the glass" either. Reaching through the outpost shield is illegal, and reaching into the opening at the airlock will get you penalized, but just touching the lexan is fine.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I was a human player for my team at the Oregon regional. I didn't commit any penalties for my team until the the last match. At the instruction of one of my alliance team coaches I removed both of the super cells before the last 20 seconds costing our alliance 40 points. My point is that you should make sure that your coaches know the rules and if your a HP or a driver that you listen to the coaches but make sure what their saying is within the rules.

Overall the most prevalent penalty was for throwing empty cells over the outpost wall. This penalty is easily prevented if your HP knows the rules.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

This sounds familiar to something I caught on the video at 1:55 here when no penalty seemed to be called. Interesting to see the interaction between coaches and human players. Good point!

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Someone on our alliance got a penalty for picking up the balls too soon at the start of the match. All the human players swore it wasn't them too. I think what happened is that one of the human players heard Mark Leon say "Go!" and started, rather than waiting for the sound from FMS.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

Most of the human player penalties I saw at Los Angeles were due to human players grabbing balls before autonomous started, not using the tongs, and throwing empty cells over the outpost wall instead of through the hole. Teams in general were pretty good about not touching the super cell before they were supposed to. Instead, many of them got panicky near the end of the game and reached into the field to grab an empty cell instead of using the tongs.

All in all, most of these can be averted by a) making sure your human player knows the rules and b) picking someone who can be counted on to stay calm and not panic. My team didn't get a single penalty called on us the entire time, so it definitely is possible.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

One of the most important of these penalties occurred yesterday during the finals of the LA regional. The penalty was incurred on the 597 1717 and 294 alliance in finals match 1. As a result, they lost by 2 points. They went on to win the second match, but lost the 3rd. Without that penalty, the outcome of the regional would likely have been different.

Be careful human players. Most of the finals matches I'm seeing are being decided by a small point margin. Penalties, though rare, are going to be very costly.

Re: Human players are costing points
 

I dont think that I have either...
But I have seen PLENTY of teams lose due to multiple penalties.:(