Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

Yep, those are the exact numbers FiM is trying to fix. So instead of $6000/12 you have $5000/48 (24matches x 2) or about $100/minute. Also since the venues are smaller there is higher probability of playing in the elims which is at least another 2 matches.

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

Now, that is just without elimination matches, out of 40 teams 24 play in elimination matches (24/40 ~50%) That is qualification matches, so we take the 2 elimination matches and multiply by the average number of matches played by all teams, we are now at 13 matches per team. 12 teams move on after that, semifinals add 4 matches (2 QF and 2 SF) which we then multiply by 25% (12/40 = ~25%) so we are now at 14 matches. Finals matches add 6 and 8 teams make it to them, this adds yet another match on average. This is an average of 15 matches per team. Using this number we can then get the cost/min number for the first two events down to $88. And for the third regional down to $16.5. Keep in mind that this is the AVERAGE, your mileage my vary.

Just some interesting numbers for perusal.

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

No, my math still stands.

12 match minimum/event x 2 event minimum x 2 minutes on field time i.e. 24 matches x 2 minutes = 48 mintues play time MINIMUM (assuming your trailer doesn't fly off). In reality if you include auton, then this is actually 54 minutes and as you pointed out, there is a high likelihood for more (less that 16/40 or 40% of teams will only see this much) .

And if you did the optional third district for $500 (after everyone had two the opened up registration), then you have a minimum of about 75 minutes of field time or... $73/min. This is a much better ROI than
$450/minute.

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

Of course you are right, I forgot that... This is why we should check our units kids... :o

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

Our team just got back from Traverse City, and honestly, I hope they never hold one there again. Don't get me wrong, to all the volunteers and people who worked their butts off to make this regional go: thank you. We need more of you. But holding a full scale FIRST event in a high school gym... should not happen. The pits were like prison cells with how small and intensely crowded they were because there was not enough room. The school had one bathroom with one toilet for the event. Our team lost an hour and a half of work time because they hadn't laid down coverings on the gym floor. The sound system was literally two feet from the blue alliance wall. I dont mean to sound whiny, but it felt like an FLL event.
FIRST events need better organization and better facilities than that. FIRST in Michigan was created to promote the organization as a whole in our state, but by lowering the quality of the events and forcing all MI teams to attend only lowers the quality of the FIRST experience and hampers its mission. The idea of FiM was worth a try, but needs to either be overhauled or scrapped next year.

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

How about a Canadian perspective??? As a N.Ontario team, Michigan was actually our closest regionals. The two Ontario regionals are 8 and 9 hrs away and run $20,000 for each one we attend. Michigan sites were only 5 or 6 hrs and about $5000 cheaper in the long run. When we heard Traverse City was adding an event we were ecstatic - only 3 hrs and another $2000 cheaper. Then we heard about the closed doors - bummer! Now were are off to Milwaukee and Mississauga with a total budget of about $45,000 for these two events. We miss coming into Michigan and the new experiences offered there and the great competitions. Sadly, the $10,000 we normally spend in Michigan while we are there will end up going elsewhere - there are plusses to having out-of-state visitors come to see the events.

Also - we went to see the final Day of Traverse City and here are my perspectives...
> control problems - likely bugs in a new system. We saw improvements even over the final day, and this will likely improve by the final weekends.
> competition quality - improved with each match - by the final elimination games, the autonomous modes were far improved and scores were climbing and the games got very exciting - I expect this to continue to the final weeks.
> A new venue? T.City handled it great - looked like it was well run (glitches notwithstanding) - they should be proud to do such a great job for a first try.

The new changes are a bummer for our team, but you still have a great program there, and improving with every run. Well done Michigan. Sorry we couldn't sneak across the border this year...

Mentor - The Knights of Alloy - Team 1535

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

Try not to treat one data point as a law of nature. FRC events can be done very well in a high school gym. Come to IRI sometime and see.

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

First off the system in Mi has helped our team. We had money for only 1 event, we played 7 or 8 times packed it up and went home. Now we are going to get 24 matches at least triple the playing time. Sure we had to spend some money to travel but it was worth it. We asked a local GM dealership (thank you Vic Canever, they even paid the for the gas!) to loan us a van to haul the group that was able to go and other parents brought up our robot and supplies. Our hotel suite that we stayed in goes for $300.00 in the summer cost us $79.00. We fundraised for the meals we purchased (cost of $200.00).

Most of the issues at TC were not because of the event itself, I guarentee these issues came up or will occur at the "big" events. I was asked to write a list of things that need to be fixed for next year and I have. I was told by the committee that there is another gym next door that they plan on using for the pits as well. I think just a better design and some planning would fix that. Some pits had more than enough room but our team ended up with a 6x8 pit. That can't occur again, but we made the best of a bad situation and had fun!
Here is some footage taken by a local station. I did see several come into the pits and interview.
http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/video.aspx?id=267073

Gary there are some FLL teams in Nothern Mi. I know I convinced the team from West Branch last year to start 1 up and they did. There was also a new FLL team on the 2nd floor that picked my hubby's brain for quite a while and in fact he offered to help them out if they ever need it.

I do wish they had made the Kettering or 1 of the other areas that have hosted 1st. Then had the groups that have had no experience come to those and watch how it was done. it would have made things a lot easier for them in the long run. The group of us at kettering have been doing this for 10+ yrs. We could do this in our sleep by now.

All in all though, I thought it was great! :)

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

I guess I only consider West Branch to be halfway "Up North". :rolleyes: I buzzed through the Michigan FLL site and missed seeing that one.

There are a lot of FLL teams in the UP. But except for Traverse City and West Branch, I can't think of any between Midland and Mackinaw Island. Potential for lots of growth there.

Re: Michigan Regional System: Who is asking the hard questions around here?
 

I agree that good events can be held in a High school gym, but like i said in a different post pertaining to TC, it felt like a off season event. It was in a gym and it was very bright inside and it didn't have the same "feel" as a "normal" regional.