pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I think that this was one of the most exciting matches of the entire day. It was sad to see 399 and 848 hooked up on each other however because overall the finals matches were so fast paced and both robots had such potential. If I remember correctly this was a very close game and was awesome to watch.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

"Bumper to bumper contact" indeed! Who needs that when you can use your ball accumulator as a robot accumulator?

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I hope there was a penalty assessed for this interaction. Anyone want to fill those of us who were not there in?

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Who would the penalty be assessed to??

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

We were worried about the pin and were pleasantly surprised when 848 pulled away. We were quickly able to maneuver our way out and score some more.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I would say 848 for contact outside the bumper zone.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

This type of interaction occured at least 4 times to us in quarter and semi finals. (a bot climbed under us or on top of us during a pin)

There were no penaltys assessed on robots in any match. It could have changed outcomes of some matches, but oh well.

(We didn't challenge it because we weren't sure if it was a penalty or not. If someone finds out if it is, or isn't, it would be nice to know. I was fine with it because the calls were consistent both ways. We ended up under a robot at one point tooo)

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Why would there be a penalty for this, especially on 848? 848 has "four wheels on the floor" and is initiating contact within its own bumper zone. To add insult to injury, it looks like 399 could have been flagged for either a height violation or the bumpers being out of the bumper zone when tipped (though 848 probably caused 399 to violate these rules, so no penalties would be the correct call).

Obviously I wasn't there, so I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but from *this picture alone*, I don't see what 848 did wrong.

<G32>, especially sections B, C, and D, does not explicitly outlaw this type of defense in my opinion (unless 848 used some sort of wedge to get 399 off the ground).

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I don't see how you could assess a penalty to them for contact outside the bumper zone when their robots bumpers are within the bumper zone.

I just can't see how a penalty can be applied to this situation. It is unfortunate that 399 was in a position like that which made them more than likely unable to move for a majority of the match, but I highly doubt 848 wedged under them and lifted to initiate contact outside of the bumper zone.

Just my 2 cents.

-Brando

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

That's exactly why we didn't challenge it. Anyhow 848 ended up pulling away which gave us the chance to take the match.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I'm gonna have to call you on that. The next round, 1388 had their turn being pinned, by 2659. That one lasted almost the entire match.

For those that think this is a penalty, it wasn't called as one, for reasons already mentioned. 848 has no floor loader; that space is used for herding balls. There are no wedges on the robot in that area. It's just open. Should a robot go inside, who takes the penalty? Nobody, because the contact would have initiated in the bumper perimeter if there was a bumper there.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

We put a similar pin on 238 in Florida. When the trailer is jackknifed and the back of the bot is against a wall, there's NOTHING the pinned robot can do. We held our pin without a worry of it breaking (or of being scored on by a PS) for a full 45 seconds until the super cell came in at the end and won us the match by 1 point. 238 was a consistent scorer too, so it was worth it for us to stay idle for that long given the capabilities of the bots on the field. 1144 said that defense was the sole reason they picked us second round ^^. Too bad theirs and 665's comms cut out in QFs.

If the regional ever gets archived, look up Match #72.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I'm going to have to disagree. If my wheels were touching, I could bet that we would be able to get out of the pin. Earlier in the day the same pin happened, but at least our wheels were touching. I managed to get out the pin with some pushing and careful turning. maybe the robot doing the pin was lacking, but unless our wheels arent touching, I wouldn't say theres nothing we can do. =)

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

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Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Hello,

I am the mentor for team 848 and we feel honored to be mentioned on Chief Delphi. What a great regional it was and we had an excellent time. Our green robot made out of Bamboo plywood and with a simple design far exceeded our expectations. Team 399 was our favorite robot and we were glad to give them a run for their money in the play-offs. We moved away from the pin because we felt it was best in the spirit of gracious professionalism and also because we were losing the match at the time. Additionally, team 399's human player was awesome and still scoring on us. We needed to herd an empty cell to our human player to exchange for a super cell in order to have any chance at victory....did anyone see our buzzer beater 30 foot shoot with the super cell?

As far as a penalty, I don't think any team deserved one. It was a great match and despite losing, we went away feeling great about ourselves. Team 399 members stood at the exit after the game, shook our hands and congratulated us on a great match. The end result was exactly as the competition was intended to be: challenging, fair, fun, exciting and gracious.

Thanks to all for a great regional.:yikes:

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

You guys were great and I made sure to let your drive team know how well they did. We were surprised when you moved back and we weren't exactly sure why until now, but we high tailed it out of there to score again.

Oh and just FYI that was 1388's human player scoring on you. You guys were high on our list of teams to be chosen as a third bot, but unfortunately you were the first to be picked.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Neither team would have deserved a penalty. No rules against pinning this year.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

But there are rules about contact outside the bumper zone, which is what is being discussed.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Shouldn't that be a penalty or something?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Then referees would have been unable to determine who is at fault, looking at the picture and watching the youtube video of the match. You guys won both quarterfinals by over 10 pts, so the difference would not have changed the outcome.

If anything though, a penalty would have gone to both teams, negating itself.

399 is inside of 848 a decent amount, and 848 is inside of 399 a decent amount as well.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Oh no, i don't care if there is a penalty or who it is on. It just seems like a point of discontent between people, and if a general consensus isn't going to come around, then there could be issues. =x

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Yea, it was probably to chaotic to see what happened.

848 could have hit 399 and pushed it up, 399 could have driven up 848. Both could have collided and this result.

I think no penalty is the right choice unless live it was really easy to see who to blame.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Out of all the possible outcomes of an attempted pin, this seems rather improbable. I wouldn't consider putting a penalty on either team mostly because it's just one of those crazy things that happens during competition. I'm sure 848's intention was not to ingest 399, as I'm sure 399's goal was not to try and phase through 848's bot. Since this year, all robots must remain within their bumper zones, I'm not sure out of bumber zone contact is an enforcable penalty.

I'd say it's things like this that really bring a lot of excitement to FIRST competitions.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I was the driver for 848 that pinned 399. All I have to say is that this was one of the best times of my life. Our robotics team is a senior-only class each year, so we're always a rookie team. I wish I could have done this all through HS, not just senior year.
In hindsight, I keep telling myself that we should have kept on 399 for longer. I had no idea that 399 was inside of us :yikes: There was an empty cell on the floor, and I moved away so we could bring it back to our human shooter. But man, I can't believe how fun this was. Wish we could have stayed competing for longer. Being picked by you guys, 399, would have been such an insane experience. Imagine where we could have gone...

edit: Also, I remember you, robodude03, coming up to us before one of our matches. It was so amazing to hear that you'd actually been thinking of choosing us. It was such a great feeling.
I saw the youtube video of our last match, the Quarterfinal 1 Match 2. Where can I find any other videos [of us]? I've checked thebluealliance.net but nothing's been posted yet.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

With the top defense you guys showed in your matches of course we were thinking of choosing you guys. Our team was looking for good drivers and a bot that could really move, you guys had that. However, as I had mentioned before you were picked first probably for the very same reasons. I was actually sitting next to some of your team members during the alliance pickings.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

I really appreciate that. I can only imagine what could have been. Either way I'm grateful to have been picked at all, and to have had another chance in the competition. 696 and 1160 picking us was awesome enough because it brought us into the playoffs. Thanks guys!

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

As a mentor, I have been monitoring this thread to see if people are acting in a professional manner. I would like to congratulate robodude on his professionalism and sound character. I would also like to thank him on recognizing the defensive manner of our bot. We had a simple plan...avoid being scored upon too often and give our human player a good shot with a super cell. We looked at the competition as a +/- situation like in hockey. Thanks again for a great regional.

Re: pic: 848 Puts a Massive Pin on 399
 

Thank you for the comment. Your team definitely executed the plan well as could be seen in the picture. I couldn't even see whether we were tipped back as is shown in the picture. All I knew is that we were pinned and that our only hope was to wiggle our way out of there. Although we saw the supercell come out into play we made sure we kept moving throughout the match and scoring whenever possible. Those were some great matches and you forced us to change our strategy. We couldn't catch your bot to make a decent score so we decided to send our defensive bot after you and go after 1160 in the next match.