Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

Yeah whoops, I hadn't checked the date before posting that (not that old though, just a few months). Sorry.

Well what do they want when they come here? They wouldn't leave behind all that they have unless we had something they really wanted (not a rhetorical question, I'm not sure precisely what it is). But if we are able to help illegal immigrants get what they are seeking without them having to break the law in the first place wouldn't that be the ideal scenario?

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

The DREAM Act is for people brought here as children (well, under 16 years old) and have been in the U.S. for at least 5 years AND earn a high school diploma AND are willing to do at least 2 years of military service OR college.

I'm sure there are very few who decided to "come here" but were brought here by their parents. Few children decide to move to a new country which is now their home. There are many who were brought here as very young children and have no recolection of another country.

It is these young people who have "become Americanized" and are willing to "jump through the hoops" to gain legal residency that the DREAM Act addresses.

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

Good point.
I suppose my point was going off in another direction.
...
However I think that I missed something. Will this bill only be in effect for a certain amount of time or will it become permanent policy? Personally I'd think that the former would make more sense as it would give children living here currently illegaly/undocumented (take your pick) a path to legal citizenship hopefully without encouraging more people to enter illegally with sole intent of abusing the legislation (not sure how exactly, but just in general concept).

Another question: If children can become legal citizens so long as they fulfill the requirements does that mean that the parents who probably have been taking care of them this whole time will also become legal citizens?

Anybody able to clarify?

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

"Will this bill only be in effect for a certain amount of time or will it become permanent policy?"

It would apply to people who were brought into the country before 16 years old and 5 years before the bill becomes law. Thus it does not apply to recent or future kids who enter the U.S.

If children can become legal citizens so long as they fulfill the requirements does that mean that the parents who probably have been taking care of them this whole time will also become legal citizens?

Yes and no. When they complete their required military/school, they can become permanent residents. Permanent residents can petition to sponsor their unmarried children and spouse. Of course the potential immigrants have to go through the usual immigration procedures. However, since the "Dreamers" had to be in the U.S. before 16, it would be most unusual for them to have spouses/children in another country.

Once they are permanent residents and they wait (is it 6 years?) they can begin the process for citizenship.

If they become citizens, then they, like all citizens, can petition to sponsor their parents. Then the parents would have to go through all the immigration procedures. I believe (I'm no lawyer) that the parents would have to apply from their home country and the fact that they were in the U.S. unlawfully would be a problem. I also think they have to be within the quota for the number of immigrants from their country.

Anyway, I have met a lot of Dreamer kids who have done everything we want all our kids to do except that their parents brought them into the U.S. without papers. Now we have high school and college graduates (electrical engineering, aerospace, etc) who mentor FLL and FRC teams and yet are not allowed to join the military or be employed and risk deportation any time. If we judge people by their character and merit rather than their parentage...

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

Say what you will about illegal immigration and all, but I think that giving teenagers access to a future in science and technology is a good thing.

One may say the parents or whatever are freeloaders / job-stealers / whatever insult you want to throw at a large diverse group of Americans, but when someone wants to punish a child for their parent's "mistake" and deny them these opportunities, that's the opposite of inspiration.

My hat's off to team 842.

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

So in effect it would not allow the parents to use their kids to become legal citizens, but they would have to get in line like everybody else. If so then I'm sort of missing the dispute. If the bill is passed then it ends up killing two birds with one stone: the kids get to become U.S. citizens (according to the bill what they want most), and they now have to pay taxes like the rest of us so the government isn't losing out there either...

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

While I agree that giving teenagers access to Sience and Technology is a good thing, there is a right way of doing things and a wrong way. I personally believe legislation such as DREAM is the wrong way.

I do not recall seeing in this thread the words "freeloader" , "Jobstealer" , or any other insult (nor would I use those phrases when talking about immagrants, illegal or not). Please refrain from strawman arguments and please do not try and polarize the issues here, these are very serious issues and should be discussed as such.

My issue with DREAM and other legislation of its type is that it rewards bad behavior ... in this case abandoning children and breaking up families. Many of these childeren are abandon because the parents believe that they cannot provide for their childeren as well as the welfare system of the US can, so they abandon their childeren here ... knowing that they will be fed, medically treated, educated, allowed to hold jobs, and now ... thanks to DREAM ... have a chance at becoming a citizen of the US ... and all the parents have to do is illegally enter this country and abandon their child.

The US government is a poor mother and a poor father, and promoting the distruction of the family unit is even worse ... and that is what DREAM and the other associated legislation does, whether it intends to or not.

My hat is also off to team 842. They are one of the teams that truely inspires me, as does Ledge. I just happen to disagree with them on this issue.

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

This wasn't targeted at anyone in particular in this thread. I have heard such terms being used to describe illegal immigrants before, and the idea was that one's opinion of this can be completely independent of whether or not you thought that particular way of illegal immigrants. So, technically it's not a strawman, I guess, as the argument is not supported by people stating those statements, but I apologize for any implication that anyone in this thread holds that opinion or uses such statements.

If the bill offered any form of reward to the parents, I would agree that this would be an issue with the legislation. I just can't see myself telling some child with awful parents that abandoned them "Oh, sorry, you can't be a scientist or engineer, we need to teach your parents a lesson."

Independent of the argument, how often does this or will this happen? This is a purely hypothetical situation (to me, if you have evidence that this happens frequently I'll stand corrected), and might not be a common occurrence at all.

Personally, I can't imagine any sane family unit would chuck their children over the border because of the DREAM act potentially making their lives slightly less hellish. Especially considering how unlikely a child with no parental guidance would have the required strong moral character.

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

But wouldn't the part of the bill requiring the child to have been in the U.S. for 5 years mean that even without the bill anybody eligible would have already been taking advantage of the U.S. system for five years? I know it's not an encouraging idea, but giving them a chance at citizenship would probably be the governments best shot at damage control. Once the kids become citizens then they must actually pay for the benefits that they had in their past had access to for free. I know it's not the ideal scenario, but baring the government taking major action towards illegal immigrants already in the country the said immigrants will most likely not be caught, they will probably not leave, and they certainly won't be paying the taxes for the services that they receive. From a pragmatic/cynical (not sure which) standpoint DREAM actually would help the problem a bit...or at least I think that it would.
--my $0.02

Re: DREAM Act in Congress
 

Keep in mind that many illegals do pay taxes, but with false names or social security numbers. They also don't get many "benefits" other than schooling.