How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

So my school is considering trying to start an FRC team (we currently have an FTC team) but we would need to raise the money. We have some ideas as to how we could do this, but we need to know how much we need. I looked at the FIRST website and it seems like it's about 15k for 2 regionals, the championship event, and the kit of parts, but is this all we would want or need? So how much money does your team spend each year?

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Short Answer: If I was intending to do 2 regionals + champs, I probably wouldn't want to do it on a budget much less than $20,000.

Long Answer: To give a more accurate number, your team needs to make some decisions. Travel costs are often second only to registration fees in terms of expenditure (depending on team size and distance to events). If the team does not subsidize trips at all, it will allow the team to operate on a significantly smaller budget, but at the cost of shifting a sizable monetary burden over to the students. Similar choices have to be made for team apparel, food during meetings, and so on.

The price of the robot itself and parts beyond the KOP is greatly affected by your machining capabilities. If you have extensive machining resources, you can probably build a robot on less money since you can make better use of raw materials. For example, if you have good sheet metal capabilities, you can basically build your entire robot out of riveted aluminum sheet metal assemblies, which can be a very economical way to construct a robot. Anyway, to make a bit of a generalization, I would aim for at least $2000 for additional robot parts. You can most definitely build a robot on way less (I've done it myself...), but $2000 will give you more options (conversely, you can spend the full allowable $3500 on a robot, but it is by no means necessary to be competitive).

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Are you just paying for events or are you counting in robot parts, prototyping supplies, tools, and all the other stuff that add up to a ton?

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

A rookie team, just out of reality in this economy, should not be thinking about 2 regionals and the championships unless you have a lot of really great mentors who have done this for a while (Like, 2826.... mentors from 93 ;) )

But then don't listen to me because I never started a team..

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Not true, they already have a good FTC team running so they are well on there way to an FRC team. If they do there homework and fundraising they can "easily" do 2 and Atlanta, we did. Just make sure to have a solid plan to follow during the season and solid people to stand behind it. Its very hard work, but its not impossible.

By the way, Monty feel free to contact me if you want to talk about this. We know a bit about converting from FTC to FRC. :P

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

If your a rookie team, your not going to have to worry about paying for championships until at least march of next year (rookie criteria)*

$ 6,000 for the 1st regional and KOP**

$ 4,000 for the second regional**

$500 decorations/t-shirts etc.

$x,xxx travel expenses (if your going to a second regional, it would be cheaper to go to a regional that's nearby. ie: Midwest/Wisconsin, Oregon/MSR, SILPI/NY). get the students to fundraise for their trip using candy fundraisers/HEX-BUG fundraisers etc. so that they can pay their own way there

$2,000 Robot expenses, (if your school has a shop class or stagecraft, you might want to check with them to see what tools they have and if they would be willing to let your team use them. If not, look around for a sponsor to help you out (Lowe's, Home Depot, ACE. etc.)... or of course, you can go at it the old fashion way and just buy all the equipment by making an argument that it would be useful for a shop class/stagecraft)

$0 Food (during build, our team would do something that would work, students would sign up on days where their parents would bring in a home cooked meal for the team... or the parents would just pay for the food that we bought to eat for that evening).

$500 Practice field construction/use/maintenance (optional, if there is a team that is willing to let you use their practice field. by all means. practice on it. return the favor though, weather by one of the parents covering for lunch for both teams etc.)

$1,500 Mis. Expenses. It's always good to know that your team has some money to fall back on if something does get pricier than what you guys were expecting.

I would recommend making a business plan on which the team has a proper budget that you can present to a teacher/school administration/sponsors. But then again, you would need to know where EXACTLY that money is coming from.... that's a whole different story.

Your total budget should come out to somewhere between $12,000 to $17,000

* You cannot open register for the Championship in your rookie year, you must win either the regional in which you attend, or win the Rookie All-Star award at the given regional. full details can be found here

**If you live in Michigan, this does not apply to your, your cost is actually $5,000 for the KOP and two district events, and an additional $500 to attend a third district event. it is $5,000 to attend the State Championship though.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Noting their location (Philly):

$6000--KOP+Philly Regional

$500--T-shirts/promotional

$200--practice field--may vary by year

$2000-3500--Additional robot materials

$1000--hand power tools (drill, hacksaw, etc.). May be less if you already have said tools.

$8000--Funds to keep you going for one more year assuming no fundraising (or a recession). May be accumulated over 2-3 years.

Total:$17,700-$19,200 for one event; add $4000 registration and extra for travel for each additional event (except for CMP, when it's $5000).

Someone's probably going to come in here and say that half of this stuff is unnecessary, and they're right: the only required part of this is the $6000. However, the rest is "expected" of a team.

For my old team, who did 2regionals + Championship for as long as anyone can remember (until this year), we figured $15,000 registration, probably around $4000 for robot parts and materials, $500 for shirts and stuff like that, and travel was paid mainly by the students and parents. (All numbers are approximate or guesses or both, except registration.) And I know I'm missing some things...

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Over the course of a season, especially a rookie season, it is not difficult to spend $6000 in addition to regional registration costs. And that's not including travel There are more costs that come up than you will ever realize at this point. Can it be done on the cheap with little more than the KOP? Yes. Can it be done better with more money? Absolutely. I would not start an FRC team without a minimum of $11,000, and at least one person who has done it for at least two years previously.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

If your serious about starting a team, start looking for potential sponsors and see what's out there. Start with one regional and Champs. Especially for the first year. My $.02

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

A good budget plan would be 2 regionals, plus funds in reserve for the Championship if you should qualify - $15000. Plus robot and other expenses of $2000-$5000. Then decide on travel costs, whether it would be covered by the team or the students. If you don't end up spending that $5000 plus travel for the Championship the first year, you have it in reserve to get you started the next year.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting out slower, planning on only one regional. You could do that for about $10000, maybe slightly less. Hopefully you could go to a local regional and not have travel costs.

I firmly believe that every student should have some financial stake in the program. This gives the students more of a feel of ownership for the team. The amount may vary by team based on your demographics. Do all students in your area typically have several hundred dollars of discretionary funds, or would $50 be a stretch for them? In addition, each team member should be responsible for some fundraising. They would get a credit share for doing things like carwashes, serving in a restaurant, or soliciting local businesses. They would get individual credit for things like candy sales. These funds could be used to offset travel costs. There are several CD threads on fundraising.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Not to change the subject but only 2 mentors on 2826 had ever done FIRST before.

As for the budget i agree with just about everything that has been said. We, 857, are a small town team and our budget this year was about $35,000. We went to 2 Michigan district events and are going to Atlanta. We don't charge the high schoolers anything except for their shirts, so our travel costs are more expensive than the registration fees and building the robot, that is why our budget is so big.

Your budget really comes down to what you can get and what you plan to do during the year.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

I wouldn't plan on doing 2 regionals and championships your first year unless you have some very experienced mentorship. Start off with just one regional, and championships if you qualify.

As far as actual money goes, take into account what tools you have and what tools you need. If you're starting from scratch you're going to invest a significant sum in tools. Erich listed $1000 for hand power tools, but if you're really at nothing right now, it could easily go higher. Power drills, bits, saws, blades, the list goes on. And none of it is particularly cheap.

If you feel you can raise the money for a second regional, I would highly recommend skipping it your rookie year, and investing that money in tools that can be used to make you more competitive in the future, as well as using it to try to get your students practice using all of them in the off season, as well as practice prototyping new devices, and reading up on basics for electrical systems, pneumatics, motors, etc.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

What people have put in above sounds right. Important part of FIRST is the business and learning from it. NEMO (non-engineering) is just as important as building the robot.

Start at a reasonable level and build from there. I agree with comment above, FTC is a great start.

Another note. As they said being a rookie you can not go to Champs, but being an experienced team you might win all-star rookie like we did and qualify to go to Champs. So you will have to decide at your last regional to go or not and spend the shipping costs. Later you can raise the cost to enter champs, for it is easier to raise money for a winning team.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

We put together a budget to help start a new team in Indy, and estimated at about $10,000 - $12,000 for the first year.

This included going to one regional, hotels, transportation, basic tools to start, extra robot materials, some t-shirts and that was about it.

Remember NASA provides some grants to first and second year teams, but you have to apply and have a good plan for your team. Look at the application process for 2009 teams, and get a feel for what is needed. A NASA grant would pay your FIRST entry fee (kit of parts), but may require that you go to a specific regional.

Items to include in your roll-up

Entry Fee
Basic Hand Tools (screwdrivers, socket set, wrenches, allen wrenches, hammers, hand saws, drill bits, etc.)
Power Tools (hand drills, small drill press, jig saw, small tabletop band saw)
Materials (motors, spare batteries, actuators, sensors, spare control components)
raw materials (aluminum, nuts and bolts, tubing, wire)

Hotel rooms
Meals
T-shirts
Give-Away items
Transportation (bus rental, van rental, gas for personal vehicles)

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

$15k-$20k for 2-3 events is a good estimate.

If you need help organizing, applying for the NASA grant, or building, you are more than welcome to contact my team (hit me at jared@team341.com) or any of the other great veteran teams in the Philadelphia area.

Where, more precisely, is your school?

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

There is a FIRST AmeriCorps-VISTA assigned in Philadelphia to help answer your questions. I would encourage you to contact him as well as the PA Regional Director. Besides the great suggestions here, they can direct you to resources to help you plan.

Links to help:
VISTA: http://www.usfirst.org/community/vol...t.aspx?id=3312
Regional Directors: http://www.usfirst.org/regionalcontact.aspx
Senior Mentors: http://www.usfirst.org/community/vol...t.aspx?id=3310
Starting a Team: http://www.usfirst.org/what/frc/content.aspx?id=5504
NEMO resources: http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Thanks RoboMom, I had no idea NEMO had such extensive documentation (I just finished going through the links).

Thanks to everyone else who commented and offered advice as well, this has been such a big help to my team.

We're lucky in that we do have a fair amount of tools (drills, a bandsaw, a press, a dremel, etc.) and we would only need travel costs for the championship (if we were to make it there). It seems like a budget of 15-20 thousand dollars would be ideal based on the comments, meaning that we should aim for 20 thousand. Thanks again for all of your help!

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

As several people have noted, 2 regionals and Championship for a rookie team may be too optimistic. However, I feel that planning for Championship will benefit you because it will cost a LOT of money. If you do not qualify you can keep this money in the bank as insurance for next year. I would budget for it each year and keep the money in a bank account as a rainy day fund. Estimates based on how 397 ran in 2008 (two regionals, home and away, and Atlanta)

$6000 KOP + Home Regional
$800 Shirts/Promo material (always budget MORE than you expect)
$200 Practice Field
$4000 Away Regional
$1000 Lodging at away regional (book early to get good rates, also, if you and another area team both go book together if you guys can't get group rates, we are also an incredibly small team though, your mileage may vary)
$1000 Robot Materials (397 builds with hand tools and raw materials and makes extensive use of KOP as such 2008's robot cost $800 to build)
$5000 CMP Registration
$1000 Lodging in ATL (Again, small team your mileage may vary)


$19,000 TOTAL

Note, this assumes that you already have tools, otherwise I would budget $1500 for tools, only spend $1000 if you can but this way you have extra in case something breaks. I also assumed that students pay for their OWN travel and food. Depending on where you are this may be a bad assumption, I know 397 has the students pay for nothing and as such our costs are much greater.

My personal suggestion, CMP is nice, it is a lot of fun for all involved but frankly it is expensive, prohibitively expensive. I would suggest instead of dropping $6000 + Travel to go to CMP that instead you put that money in the bank for a rainy day. After all, I think that a team should be able to run for a full year should a sponsor suddenly back out on them.

There is a rough budget for running a team, as I said, there are more expenses associated with starting a team, mostly tools.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

We work the same way and we had the exact same budget. I think a good budget for starting would be 40K. That way you don't start one season and the next season you can't do anything forcing you to drop out of FIRST. But if you just want to make it by for one season, 15-20K is the way to go. Extra money helps and goes a long way. Get a hold a hold of Veteran teams nearby, I'm sure they would love to help out.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Without going too deeply in specifics, you need to account for:

Entry fees.
Food.
Housing.
Travel.
KOP.
Extra Parts.
Team Spirit Stuff.
Awards for Other Teams.
Judging packets.
Computer system for programming.
Extra Batteries.
Tools (big bucks here).
Practice field materials.


The start-up year and the year after that are by far the most expensive because you have to lay the groundwork. It is far more than the simple cost of maintaining a team year to year.

2 regionals, champs, plus all the costs to reasonably start up a team? $25k for the first year, quickly dropping each subsequent year because you've already purchased your "sunk cost" items like band-saws, grinders, and other tools.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Our team probably spends more than most, last year we had 32 students and 10 mentors. We went to a long distance regional and then the close regional, then to Atlanta. Everything below is rough estimates. We raised about $75,000.

$30,000 for Atlanta

$20,000 for bus and driver there and back, plus any time that we wanted while in Atlanta

The rest broken up with registration fee and hotel and a few other little things

The long range regional about $15,000, because we needed a bus

Close regional about $10,000, parents and mentors drive students

The rest was used for building supplies for the robot and full playing field that we build, among many other "things" that come up.

All of this excludes the aluminum that we use. We get around $10,000 worth of aluminum from Patrick Metals every year. This allows us more than we would ever use in one season. It allows us our all aluminum pit and mostly aluminum playing field.

This is with everyone buying their own food.

This does not include tools and computer equipment since our school provides a shop and computer lab for us to work in.

This year with about 15 students and 10 6 or 7 mentors we have trimmed cost to about $40,000

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

I think the best way for you to estimate this is to find a team close to you.
Ask them what they do.

For instance... travel costs eat us alive for the championships...
We live in Seattle, so for a team of 30 we spend somewhere around $12,000 JUST for the air fare to Atlanta.... (not counting what mentors and parents pay)

Registration is $5000.

You combine that with hotel cost of at least $200 per night ... 4 to a room....3 nights...and you are around $5000 for hotel expenses...

so for championships.... for us... bare minimum is something around $22,000

For a local regional for anyone.... if you can stay at home....

$10,000 is a good number for a team... you can do pretty much everything minimally for that kind of money for a single local regional...

Just be careful to look at travel...
It can be very expensive... but you can cut costs...

For our team we also limit attendance at the championship to our juniors and seniors...something for our underclassmen to strive for and also to raise money for during their initial years...

FIRST is worth it though...

I totally agree with another post in regards to getting kids to do their own fundraising so they have ownership in the program and the team...

something given without cost... has little value..

good luck

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

We are nearby and ready to help you through the whole process.

Just send me a PM.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

I'm not in charge of finances, but I can tell you what I DO know for our expenses. We went to one regional and now the championship next week

$6000 for 1st regional and KOP
~$100 per person per day for hotel expenses at regionals
$???? for robot expenses (wasn't in charge of that, never really told how much we spent)
$15000 for the bus to Atlanta
~$600 per room (3 people (I think)) in Atlanta
$0 for food (donated by school departments/parents)
Total (estimated)=$44000 (based on what I know/think) assuming 25 people to regionals and 30 to ATL and no additional costs for the robot.
I'd guess about $2000 for the robot, which would make it 46k

This is just an estimate though, but I'm pretty sure it's at least close to what we spent. I'm just a simple photographer/scout though, not the CFO, so I don't have a whole lot of information to go off of.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Our team keeps spending more every year. Our total spendings are totaling $75,000. We spent like $40,000 last year and so on. It more or less depends on how big of a team you want. We are close to breaking even this year and plan to raise more as the year goes on. Managing your money is a big thing. Next year we're going to try to lower our spendings. Also travel arrangements and logistics are critical for each regional. Try to stay within the charter bus distance limit for one driver. We spent about $6,000 for a bus to the Palmetto Regional from K.C. MO.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

All the comments seen above look pretty good. As mentioned many costs may vary depending on how much your team members can pay, distance from regionals and so forth. Here is how our teams costs broke down this year:

$11,000 for 1 regional and the championship. (For 2 regionals and a championship it would cost about $15,000)

$2000 for robot construction (though our team usually only uses about half of that)

$9000 from the team + about $300 for each team member to attend both events. (It costs a lot for an Oregon team to go to Atlanta.)

$3000 miscellaneous. For t-shirts, buttons, food, in your case maybe tools.

Total :$25,000

So I would recommend somewhere between $25,000-$30,000.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Depends on the number of people on the team because travel eats up most of your money (unless you happen to live near a regional).

Team 34's planning budget is $25K per event.
We generally have 30-35 students and 6-10 mentors that travel to each event and we usually limit our travel to a 12 hour radius from home. Most years we participate in 2 events (usually regionals). So our yearly funding target is somewhere around $50K.

This includes hotel, charter bus, support vehicle expenses, entry fees, food, robot parts, freebies(give-aways), shirts, pit expenses, website expenses, and countless misc things that come up.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

As a mentor for a rookie Team 3007 I had the students focus on just getting the robot to move. After that they could decide what else they wanted to add to the robot. After they had it moving reliably they made it made it collect game pieces and into a visual obstruction. It seemed to work when they ended up seated 4th. This was all done on a budget of $10,000 using mostly the KOP. If your regionals is close where you don't have to pay for travel expenses and hotels, you can produce a competitive robot on $10,000.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

Annual team budget for MORT usually comes to 50-60K which gets spread out from our parent organization MOREA (Mt Olive Robotics Education Assoc.) Our area has wealthier students than most teams so we have kids pay for travel with our own funding offsetting much of the cost, especially for those who have problems with affordability. There is a 40 dollar charge for a team uniform only in freshman year as the uniform is for all years. T-shirts are sold sometimes and then used later on to offset travel costs.

As everyone has stated it depends on your ambitions. Personally I'd rather do 2 regionals as a rookie and not really worry about the Championship.

Definitely contact 341, they are in your area.;)

During your rookie year make sure you raise around XK (I'd say around 8K) extra while raising for the current season and reserve it for the next season. This will REALLY help your program because each year you'll be one step ahead.

PM for more area teams to turn to for help.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

The bulk of your costs will be travel, robot parts, and registration fees. Those are trivial.
Our team always elects to stay at a hotel (non-conference one) that has continental breakfast and free parking, so that we can use the difference to pay for rental vans. At least it will allow you to buy basic necessities and do a little R&R.

But be careful in adding up those little costs. They aren't so little once the season is over.

Re: How Much Does it Cost to Run a Team?
 

We host a once-a year school Superintendent meeting for school districts that don't have FIRST teams. When they ask about budgets this is the information we give them, updated to 2009 cost estimates. Metro NY costs, not airline travel from Hawaii!
--------------

FRC Team Budget
Money or portions of it can be supplied by the school, a local business sponsor, or team booster club fundraisers. Getting a shipping company as a team sponsor will save on getting tools to Championship. If you don’t have all of it, then you can make due with what you have. Some of these are one-time or infrequent expenses, like a robot crate/cart or hand tools, while most are recurring. The very minimum I’ve gotten by with on a team I mentored was $7,000 ($6k for registration, $900 parts and basic tools, $100 school van transportation).

Median team budget estimate doing one local event ~$10,000
Team budget estimate doing one local event & a second driving distance event ~$20,000
Team budget estimate doing one local event & Championship ~$37,000
Team budget estimate doing one local event, one driving distance event, & Championship ~$47,000


Entry Fee
$6000 – one Regional and Kit of Parts
$4000 – Optional additional Regional
$5000 – Optional Championship (Rookies must qualify by winning Regional or Rookie All-Star award, Veterans can register in November for open slots or after qualifying at a Regional-winning, Chairman’s, or Engr Inspiration awards)

Teacher/advisor stipend
$0 to $5,000
School dependent, but some schools pay their advisors as they do their coaches. This is school-only money that the team doesn’t raise, but the school administration has to consider based on required policy. Non-school based teams don’t have this issue of course.

Tools
$500-$1,000
Completely dependent on what you already have or can borrow in terms of:

• Basic hand tools (traveling toolbox, socket set/wrenches, hex set, hacksaw, pliers, hammer, screwdrivers, taps, rivet gun, etc.)
• Power tools (hand drill, tabletop drill press, jig saw, sander, miter saw)
• Tooling that wears out or breaks (drill bits, saw blades, taps)
• Laptop for programming at home and the Regional event (usually school issued or personal)

Materials
$1000-$3000
Nothing fancy and teams are allowed to spend up to $3,500 on the robot, plus prototyping materials, late design changes, and damaged/mis-made parts.

• Additional COTS parts (gearboxes, chain/sprockets, pneumatic actuators, add-on sensors/electronics, spare components, extra 12v competition batteries)
• Raw materials (aluminum plate & tubing, fasteners(nuts/bolts,rivets), electrical wire & connectors)

Practice field/game elements
$500
Yearly game dependent and doesn’t mean a full field (~$3000), but enough of the parts to test and practice with your robot design, build field elements, buy balls, etc.


Travel
$200 to $20,000 - overnight or day trip? Based on number of people, distance to Regional

• Transportation (school bus-district owned or rental, commercial coach bus, parent vans)
• Hotel rooms (if overnight stay)
• Meals (3 meals/day if away, lunch only if close to home)
• Stipends, food/board for school mandated chaparones

Example:
Local Regional 2009 Budget ~$1,000: 30 students & 10 mentors= 40 people

• $1,000 – 3 days of school bus transportation for students & chaparones
• Other mentor/parent transportation by personal vehicle
• Lunch on own, breakfast before we leave, dinner after we return.

Away Regional 2009 Budget ~$6,000: 30 students & 6 mentors= 36 people

• $225 per person, coach bus, hotel & meals
• Meals: $20/day given to each student to cover breakfast and lunch at the arena, plus 3 dinners

Championship 2009 budget $22,760: 25 students & 9 mentors= 34 people

• $600 - shipping of tools, materials, cart & batteries to/from Atlanta
• $100 - School bus Transportation to/from NYC airport
• $500 – rental of one van in Atlanta, 4 days
• Travel - $640 per person, includes:
• · Roundtrip airfare NYC to Atlanta
  · MARTA from/to Atlanta airport
  · FIRST package Hotel - 3 nights and wrap party tickets
  · No daily transportation costs, hotel is walking distance
  · Meals: $20/day given to each student (25) to cover breakfast and lunch, plus 3 dinners

Miscellaneous
$1200

• $150 Robot cart
• $200 team banner w/sponsors
• $200 Robot crate
• T-shirts (team image)
• Incidentals like colored hair spray, body paint
• Mascot costume, usually school-owned, can be rented or homemade
• Give-Away items (usually buttons, but can also be chachkas/knickknacks with team logos printed)
• Pit display (organize tools and work area, advertise team & sponsor logos, colorful eye attractor)