Re: FIRST's patents
 

The patent office is clogged up with useless patents like this one :(

Re: FIRST's patents
 

By the way: here are the trademark serial numbers:

Gracious Professionalism : 77711102
Coopertition : 77713637

-Z

Re: FIRST's patents
 

I saw this on Reddit and /. just seconds ago and searched and found this discussion.

I just lost almost all respect I had for Dean and FIRST for doing something as pointless as this. I hope this patent gets overturned. No matter what he says, what he does, this does NOT help robotics. I can see the one day where FIRST goes from trying to beat other programs and legally hurting other programs because it can't compete in certain areas.


I give it a matter of years before everybody knows and has participated in FIRST...for all the wrong reasons.


Pavan Davé

Re: FIRST's patents
 

Pavan,

I think you are misunderstanding FIRST's intentions in getting these patents.

1) Patents serve to help spread ideas just as much as they protect them. Patents offer innovators a way to publicly share their inventions in a forum that still offers them legal protection from specific copying.

2) The specific wording of FIRST's patents makes violating the independent claim virtually impossible. Unless each and every one of the parts of the claim are violated, there is no violation. If you read the fine print, the "coopertition" patent actually talks about a very specific scoring algorithm that other competitions have never used anyway.

FIRST isn't trying to be the bully on the playground here. They are disseminating some "good ideas" in an official forum.

Was it necessary, and was it a good use of time and money? Not in my opinion, but I definitely don't think it calls for a "loss of almost all respect" for Dean and FIRST.

Re: FIRST's patents
 

This is a tremendous over-reaction.

Do you have any information that points to FIRST trying to enforce these patents against other organizations? Because I haven't seen any.

By coming on here and saying something like you lost all respect for FIRST and Dean for filing for a patent is irresponsible. Make a decision based off of the facts...not what you think may happen, and if you can't do that, at least wait for more facts to come out before you make judgement.

-Brando

Re: FIRST's patents
 

I think that many people are over-reacting on this thread. When I saw Dean present these patents on Friday at the Championship, I got this impression:

Dean (and FIRST) is trying to communicate and bring attention to GP and Coopertition.

Dean (and FIRST) is trying to communicate and bring attention to the whole patent and trademark process, and therefore encouraging the FIRST community to do the same.

I did not get any impression that FIRST would litigate other entities who were using GP and Coopertition. As a matter of fact, Dean actually suggested that FIRST litigate if other entities did not use these two ideas.

More people should have gone to the opening ceremonies in Atlanta, and could have experienced how this was presented.

Andy

Re: FIRST's patents
 

First let me start off by saying, I'm not to Dean Kamen as half of America is to Kobe Bryant or Lebron James. So now that that part is clear I can say it may be a slight overreaction but not too far fetched from my experiences.

As for I having seen FIRST cripple other organizations? I have worked with a few small organizations and robotics competitions in which FIRST has not been the "gracious professional" that everyone by default assumes, but that is not something FIRST will admit to and something the people behind these other small organizations will not speak of.

I do not care how it is worded I know from experience that people will dig through your rules and regulations and call a lawyer to find the smallest mistake or loophole. For either side. And with the way people in power usually behave, whatever their intentions may be, I don't believe that everyone can be a winner. There's too much at stake for FIRST. Whether it is tomorrow, ten years from now, or twenty-five years from now, I'll still be watching out.

From what I have seen and what I have been involved I still stand by my statement.

Pavan Davé

Re: FIRST's patents
 

Well from the extreme vagueness of your posts we have no clue whether or not you still are overreacting or not. All we know is that they did something that you didn't like.

Re: FIRST's patents
 

That is a very strong claim to make without presenting any evidence. Within the context of this and other posts, it is nearly comical.

Your tone is hurting your argument.



That aside, I don't see as much value in this patent as others might. On the other hand, I'm relatively confident that it is a (potentially ineffective) tool, not a weapon.

Re: FIRST's patents
 

Pavan,

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with these posts. You are accusing FIRST of both past wrongdoings and the intent to commit future wrongdoings in a public forum without presenting any evidence whatsoever.

While you of course have the right to have and express your opinions, please realize that the manner in which you are choosing to express them reflects negatively upon yourself and the groups with which you are affiliated.

Re: FIRST's patents
 

Ok I think that Pavan is trying to convey some of the fear that some of us have over this issue. yes we know that Dean has said that he wants to use the patent to share and spread the ideals of FIRST but . . you know what let me put it in another way


You have an uncle . .lets call him uncle Sean hes an awesome uncle, always tells a joke when you see him, used to always have candy when he came over, dressed funny but hes a great uncle. OK so one day he invites you to his house for dinner, and from the past you know his wife, Aunt Twiggy, is a great cook. You enter the house and imediatly smell the mashed potatoes a meat roast and several other wondeful foods. You all sit down to the table and start to eat. Then Uncle Sean pulls out a glock slaps in a clip, chambers a round, throws it on the table and says, "hey look what I just got. Dont worry I don't plan on using it." you know he wont, but still you are sceared out of your mind.

At least thats how I feel about it( possibly Pavan). you see we come from a state where over 90% of the robotics education and robotics teams are not a part of FIRST (BEST, VEX, GEAR, EARLY) and for reasons other than GP don't plan on becoming part of FIRST. Yes we know that a patent can be used to be a megaphone to share ideas, but it can also become a club to squash competition.

Its the fear of the unknown, and the fear of losing control..


I guess what I would like to see FIRST do, is release the patent to the Public Domain . the idea would still be out there, however we would no longer have this hammer hanging above our heads.

Re: FIRST's patents
 

Reread his post again. The complaints have nothing to do with this argument. People are just responding to the baseless accusations without any evidence about "non gracious professionalism" whatever that means. It is just too vague for any rational person to make a decision. For all we know he could be lying, correct, or just misconstruded the events. Also, what exactly spurred this debate? Your analogy seems a bit off when the gun was documented five years ago.

Re: FIRST's patents
 

Doubtful VEX is going to be in violation of anything like that in the near future, I think Innovation FIRST has firmed themselves defensively for such a case. If you are still worried read these:

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080263628
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080269949