Ultimate Alliance
 

Since the Championship is over, I think it's about time for the discussions about the the ultimate alliance.

So...What teams would you put on the ultimate alliance for Lunacy?

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

im gonna say 1625, 217, and 67. game over.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I would go with 67, 111, and 217

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

considering the results of the championship, i have to say 111,67 and 121.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Any three teams that can all preload in autonomous and end the game in 3 massive unloads. I suppose they could spend the rest of the time playing with empty cells/supercells if they please.

(For example 67, 217, 111, 68, 254. the list goes on)

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

It looked pretty clear that 111, 67, 971 is the ultimate alliance. Three great scorers. Their methods of scoring were not all the same which helped them a lot as well. 971 was a great bot who had some bad luck in quals and lost their first five matches in Atlanta. As soon as I heard who 111 & 67 selected as their second pick I thought it was a dream alliance and knew they would be nearly impossible to beat, 971 should have been picked way before when they actually were. Good job scouting 111 & 67 and congrats to 971 on your first world championship. 111 really stepped up their game in Atlanta and were always able to get at least one dump off a match. As soon as they did it match was over.

-Keaton

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I have to say that 111 and 67 was an ideal match up because, 111 was a huge scorer (30 plus balls) when given the oppurtunity, and their drivers typically found the best oppurtunities. 67 put up huge scores in varying amounts with amazin accuracy and very quickly. They both loaded in autonomous and started off with at least 45 balls ready to score. Assuming they missed 4 each, that's 37 balls which is about 74 points. Then 67 would have about 1 and a alf minutes to collect and dump, tyically in 2 (I say only 2 because they feild gets very scarce very quickly in elims) amounts of 7-10 balls. 111 takes a dit longer on their first dump, because their scoring mechanism was a little slower and they had to line up in an alomost pin, however, wen they did it was easily 70 points for their alliance, therefore, after theirfirst score it would be 1 minute left to pick up and score again (about 10 balls). 217 would be the best complete to the super alliance, because after their first dump of an autonomously loaded hopper (about 15-25 balls), tey could transfer all 4 empties, and then after the last one was delivered, the 20 secind mark would hit and they would have the human player pass his 2 to them (30 points in teh hopper). They would go and score them, while the other human player would have a good shot at scoring 1 of his. I would say that these three together, with the right strategy, could consistently put up 160 points, accounting for some defense and that the feild would run out of balls.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

111, 217, 1625

think about how well this alliance would work together with 1625 loading from the outpost 111 from the corner and 217 from the other corner. the 2 best power dumpers in the game that showed their ability to perform together at midwest would put up high scores and 217 would turret their way to scoring a few moon rocks and some super cells.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I'm sure 111 could load from the outpost if they wanted. However, Im not sure if 111 or 1625 is a better power dumper. I know that 111 basically secures a match after the first dump, one reason why they went undefeated in Atlanta, while even 67 lost a match. I have never seen 1625, I have heard great things, but would never have seen them lest they were on Galileo or Einstein.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

111, 67, and either 217 or 1717

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I probably can't pick an ultimate alliance, but it would be any combination of 217, 67, 111, 1625, 1114, 2056, 1717 would be absolutely dominant.

I would say one shooter and two dumpers.

So something along the lines of 217, 67, 1625/111.

It's hard to leave some of these teams out though...

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

1114, 217 and 148. Hands down.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

gee that sounds strangely familiar...

ill have to go and say that the alliance that won the championship is the ultimate alliance. Theres a whole lot more going on between those three teams then their raw scoring power... they worked really well together.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

How about a all Michigan alliance?

67,217,1918??

All really high scoring threats

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

1625 (Instant fill of a trailer+empty cell delivery)
217 (Consistent high scoring+Super Cell scoring)
111 (Consistent high scoring)

100% Midwest Alliance

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

217 68 67 for the All Michigan win.

Otherwise, Id put in for 111 68 and 67. Either way my picks are from the Midwest. 67 and 111 load from corners and 68 loads from the outpost (including their empty cell delivery system) 68 pins for 111 while 67 hits another trailer. 67 goes to reload while 111 unloads all over the pinned opponent. 68 deposits the empty cell and goes off to unload while 111 either runs interference or collects for another dump.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I think 111 is good, but the best Michigan Allience would be 217, 67, 1918.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Heh, all this talk reminds me of a qualification match in Minnesota that was particularly kind to the top 3 scoring teams at the event (according to our scouting data), all being paired with each other... but I digress.

If you're talking solely the robot and not the strategy, you could include a lot of bots over others. 177 over 148, for example; they had practically the same bot but I preferred how 177's drivers played.

Given that they have awesome, smart drivers, 111 and 217 are pretty special. But a lot of robots that could have opted for HP loading that didn't (2970) I'd say would be different and worth a second look with a change in drivers.

Another thing to consider is how easy it is to stop a robot or strategy. Part of what makes 217 / 111 so awesome is that they have some neat tricks (mainly 111's epic crab drive and 217's adjustable shooter / corner load) that make stopping them have a net negative benefit. You can get around this with cunning strategy to an extent (what's up 1625), however.

Overall, with "driver / robot" teams factored in, my ideal alliance would probably be 111 / 217 / 1625.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Well, 68, if I am not mistaken from our scouting data, put up around 25+ balls a match during elims on Saturday. When we were pinned, they were definitely able to score well and carry our alliance. Da Bears also proved to be a more effective partner than anyone else we could have picked, as their pinning and defense allowed us to score more super cells in elims than ever before. As said previously, it comes down to a lot more then just raw scoring power. OPR does NOT win a match, nor will it get you to Einstein.

Personally, I think an ultimate SCORING alliance would consist of teams such as 67, 111, 1771, 254, 1625, 121, 1114, 2056, 1717, etc. All high scoring, ~30 balls a match kind of robots.

Oh, I suppose you could throw us in that pool too. :)

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

What is HP loading and what does it have to do with 2970?

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

HP loading is Payload Specialist loading, but using previous year's terminology :) (Human Player)

If you load up your robot in autonomous by having a human stuff balls into it, then you can get a really big score right away as soon as teleop starts.

Some teams figured this out early and used it very effectively.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Thanks. I think we whould have done better then what we already have if we had decidied to go with the HP loading. We were thinking about it , but we wanted the human player to have fun as well. We wanted everyone to try to have fun. If we get into IRI i would like to do that.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Well what about two power dumpers and one defense like 67,1918, and 1254.

we did not win state only because of some unfortunate events.(we ended up losing 4 matches that we should have won). the bigest upset is when 68 was on our team and their dumper i guess stoped working.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

1254 was a great defender, but human players might have a larger impact.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

not to be rude... but are you blaming your lost at states on your qualification partners?! or am i have i mistaken this tone. 68 is an amazing team(no one pushes truck town) and yes their dumper had some troubles back at states but that does not mean that made you lose. every robot runs into difficult matches as well as unfortunate events. robots like to give you troubles... its like they have a mind of their own. they work to win but when no one is giving them attention they just want to break!( what Roxxy did to us sometimes)

i want to see how last years ultimate alliance of 148, 1114, and 217 can hold out in this year's game :)
maybe play an alliance of 67, 68, 111, 254, etc.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I vastly underestimated 67's abilities despite seeing them in multiple events on webcast.

111 and 1625 are both amazing, I'd even say interchangable. I can't shake my initial feelings after week 1 and the Midwest regional that 1625 is one of the top robots in the world, and 71 even should have a say in this argument.

I also can't help my week 1 reactions when comparing 1114 and 217. It was fun watching 217 get better and better as the weeks went on, but 1114 is just darn right scary. I've seen video of them shooting over opponents, but seeing it with my own eyes is something else. Was any other robot able to be pinned in a corner and score 8 moonrocks in the opposing goal?

67, 1625, 1114

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

179, 1625, 1649

not to be vain or anything

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

67.217 and 1625. i hope they meet up in IRI against us ( sarcasm ) :o

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I'd be down for that lol

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I think I might be sick at the thought of some of the alliances that will inevitably come out of IRI with the assumed lack of a serpentine draft.

On the Ultimate Alliance front, I'm going to call 111, 1625 and 71 for champs at IRI.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

67, 217, 148 no doubt

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Not sure if we meet the qualification of ultimate, but 1717 and us have been wanting to team up all season. It'd certainly be a heck of a good time.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

By the way, if our dumper was having issues at states, that was the first time in our whole season that is was being problematic. the only other time we had an issue was at Lansing when one of the leads fell off it on our last qualifying match...

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

67
111
971

Prove me wrong...

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

An all shooter alliance of 1114, 217 and 1717 would be really cool.:cool:

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

First off i would like to thank all of those that have put us in thier ultimate alliance pick.

Second, i would pick any of the following to make an ultimate alliance(in no particular order): 1625, 111, 67, 217, 2970, 234, 2753, 71, 45, 121, 2056, 1114, 1918, 469, 254, 968, etc. etc. There are way too many more.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Our style of play does not appear that dominant on the webcast, based on the way that they constantly switch camera views.

I am not sure any other team played the way that we did effectively, with multiple quick hitting smaller scores v. one or two larger scorers.

From what I noticed on the videos, it appears that we are only scoring 2-4 balls when we are on camera. What you don't see is that we are doing that 3 or 4 times in addition to the 7-13 balls in our first score.

We played that way in our first match at Cass Tech and we will continue that way until we are done playing with this robot. Its the only thing we know how to do.

My ultimate alliance would be the three best robots that we competed with:

217 111 and 68.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I'm very happy that we are mentioned in this thread. I would personally love to play on an alliance with 217 and 67 or 68. I think that would be some incredible matches. I would love to be a part of some of that incredible strategy of the Thunderchickens.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I think an alliance of 1717, 1726, and 1771 would be very cool.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

That would be a very cool match. 1726 was right across from us in atlanta and it was cool seeing our "clone" everytime I looked out of our pit. 1717's robot is just incredibly clean and well engineered and they are a very effective scoring machine.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I would like to see an all helix shooter match. Perhaps 1717, 1771, and 1726 vs. 70, 217, and 368? I'd love to see any alliance with both 217 and 1717 together, unless I was on the other end of the field.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

My ultimate alliance is 111, 67, 971.

At no other time this year was I scratching my head saying, "I have no idea how we are going to beat these guys."

The timeout during Einstein was mostly to try and figure out a crazy strategy that might work against them. I had nothing ...

Seriously, these guys had no one that could match up with them ... no one.

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Thank You all for mentioning us, its so weird to see our number under the listing of "best robots":ahh:

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

I have to agree with Paul. Our team slaved over strategy against the #1 alliance, and just couldn't deal with their massive scoring and great synergy. Great job, 67/111/971. Btw, in response to the all-shooter posts-- although it doesn't qualify as an all helixed shooter match, there was one match that we played with six total turreted shooters :p

Re: Ultimate Alliance
 

Something I'd like to see at an NJ offseason:

103+25+56 vs. 2753+816+1923 Seriously though, NJ offseason alliances will be sick.

IRI Alliance: 234+111+67