Re: Sitting down during matches
 

No team ever won a team spirit award by sitting down ALL the time! Regardless of where you sit you should show you spirit by standing when your team is on the field. I have been mentoring for 14 years and teams have always stood when their machine is on the arena. I have been scouting for 8 or 9 years and the teams that stand and show their enthusiasum are not the annoying ones. The most irritating are the people who stand in the aisle talking or just looking around, or wiat until a match starts and then stand and fidget for 30 seconds then make everyone in the row stand to let them out!! Why not leave during the long period of inactivity between matches. Yes G.P. is important so is common courtesy----don't stand in the aisles during activity on the field---don't stop at the top or bottom of the stairs/escalator when everyone is trying to get to the toilet or get a drink and get back in time to see the next exciting match. Sorry, but standing to show your team spitit is NOT rude or obnoxious, however cursing at students and mentors of the so called offending team is. You know who you are and you shpould be ashamed not rewarded. Nuff said.

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

An observation needs to be made here-

the Georgia Dome seats are not staged in a particularly steep way like they are in some of the arenas we play in. As a result instead of having a good view over the head of the person in front of you the view often barely reaches. So anyone standing for 6 rows below you in the line of sight of the field is essentially a wall and you see nothing on the field.

Since football action occurs way out on the field it is likely that in great plays everyone is standing- and I doubt they are scouting players from the stands.

The Philly venue seemed to have the nicest view of the field with the field in a pit below the start of the seats and a steep staircase to the levels.

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

Most regionals are played in smaller venues such as hockey/basketball arenas, but the Dome is a football field, and the FRC fields are located relatively close to the edges. Think about the geometry.....

I guess it really is a technical problem after all.

edit: I guess Wayne figured this out at the same time I did!

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

Our team, Miss Daiy, stands and cheers with our alliance during elimination, but in the top of the stands during qualifications where we sit with our wheelchair-bound teammate. In this way we do not obstruct the views of others when they are scouting but do when they are not scouting. Is this reasonable? In both San Diego and Atlanta, for the first time I believe, our team was yelled at to sit down, please sit down, or quiet down. We calmly did our best to either sit to assuage the needs of others or shifted our group over a necessary amount, in these pivotal matches against 968 and 217. I would think that everyone would love to see this display of boisterous enthusiasm for the machine that we as a team built with our own two hands in 6 weeks and even moreso for science and technology itself, which is why these complaints and this thread had me confused. We believe the cheering really motivates our drivers so we try our best to lose our voices through screaming for our drivers and our alliances as a whole. We really enjoy cheering for each member of our alliance in elims with our alliance for an even greater sound.

I do believe Philly had steeper stands this year and also the front center section designated for scouting and media but only two were allowed for each team making the use of this space for an entire scouting team difficult.

Good luck with the resolution. I'd love to share with my team the proper etiquette.

Sam A.
Scout
Team 341 Miss Daisy
Wissahickon High School
Ambler, PA

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

Perhaps the spirit award needs to factor in the effect spirit has on other teams.

I've had similar problems with flag waving. I had one team in the front row waving a huge flag for the duration of their matches. Despite repeated "Excuse me, no one can see, please stop waving your flag here", those matches were still for their eyes only.

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

Alright, this is obviously a heated discussion, as everyone has an opinion on the issue. So here's my $.02...

Teams who stand and scouters (or other general people who are not typically standing during the competition) need to BOTH compromise. Teams need to realize that while cheering during their match is fun and supportive, they are sometimes blocking the views of others. If asked to sit down, the teams should be kind and sit down or move somewhere else. However, the scouts (and other general people) should realize that sometimes a team doesn't mean to intentionally block other's views. Sometimes you just get caught up in the moment and ultimately forget what's going on around you--much like the drivers and human players on the field. If both groups would put themselves in the other's position, I think we could all be a little bit more understanding and reach an agreement that works for most.

As far as the comment earlier about how yelling "Sit down!" isn't un-GP, I tend to disagree. Yelling in such a manner is quite distasteful. Ask a person or team to sit down politely, explaining why you wish them to do so, and you'll yield way better results than resorting to a shouting match. Even if they still disregard your request (which is also un-GP, and a shame if it happens), this doesn't free you from the duty of remaining graciously professional yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

Really, any team that is going to stand during matches needs to do so from behind where other teams are scouting and/or watching. If this is a requirement for your team spirit - go to the back of the pack and cheer from there. I agree with others that the only time the Drive team SEES you (rathe than HEARS YOU) is when they initially walk on the field. After that - they're too busy driving.

You CAN NOT scout with a team standing in front of you (and sometimes even individuals on teams) - especially if you are using laptops as our team does which really prevents us from standing while scouting. If you're going to be a "standing during the match team", no problem - but do it from where you will not block scouters, parents or members of other teams. We literally score and report on every ball thrown, moonrock scored, and empty cell delivered, and we're not the only ones who do a thorough scouting job. We can't do that with someone blocking the view. We share our data (and our collection system) with everyone, so it's not even as if we're doing it just competitively. You provide your team with a disadvantage at selection time if you're not in our stats because we couldn't see your match.

Scouting is unimportant for some and extremely important for others. When a team races through the crowd in the morning, literally pushing others out of the way (one of our mentors ended up literally being shoved into a garbage can by a running team member - you know who you are), proceed to grab seats in the front rows, and then stand during every match they are in, despite the polite (and eventually impolite) requests of those behind them, that is the ultimate in gracious un-professionalism.

There are numerous reasons not to stand during matches, not the least of which are that it blocks the views of parents and/or grandparents and guests, as well as those that are "Vertically challenged" or handicapped in some way who may not wish to or even be able to stand and sit during matches that the other team is in.

Stand and cheer as your robot comes on the field and when it is announced during the startup. Sit and cheer the rest of the time, or proceed to the back of the arena, or as the Bees did, find an area where you will not block others (an excellent compromise by the way). If someone asks you to sit (no matter whether they are gracious or not), the gracious and professional thing to do is sit. Period.

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

You can be loud without standing, and inconveniencing those around you. Scouters frequently can't use the upper seats as there is no power there, and/or they STILL get blocked by those in front of them. As a driver do you LOOK in the stands very often? If so better watch that trailer :D

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

I agree with Mr. Cokely, that the venues at many regionals, especially Philly and Trenton, have different seats than the Georgia Dome, leading to better viewing angles, and less problems with standing

However, I think that the idea that a team cannot root for their drivers and robot is absurd. If it is your round, get loud, stand up, wave your flag, but only for the duration of the match (2 mins). when it is not your turn, sit down, and be gracious, and allow other teams to show their spirit. Inhibiting a teams spirit, teamwork, and team pride is not what should happen at a FIRST competition.

For the many with gripes about scouters not being able to see, i agree. As a lead scouter, i have seen the trouble that occurs when a team in frony of you stands up (as chronicled in my earlier post). the simple solution is to reserve a couple of rows for scouters. some teams have many, so they can share shifts or dom something. At philly, there was a block of seats for team reps... later in the day, many a scouter was seen there for the great, unobstructed view. By reserving the block, scouters can see, and teams can shout and yell and stand without worrying about blocking other teams scouters. this is an easy solution, and i think it will work just great (FIRST, are you listening??? :) )

PS: the views above are my opinion and only mine. They in no way reflect the overall views of my team. If you see a problem, talk to me about it, and don't view my team in a negative light... thanks!

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

Agreed 100% Mr. Drake. I thought you guys were very appropriate in your cheering/standing.

As a driver, I don't notice or even hear people in the stands during matches, literally. After matches people will come up to me and tell me that they were cheering my name during the match, and I will have had no idea. The time that I get the most/only enjoyment out of my team cheering is when they introduce us at the beginning of the match, and when the result is announced at the end.

With that being said, if teams only stood up at those times, there would be no problem. I hope that my team never stood up during matches, because as I said, I haven't noticed it. :P

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

sorry for getting to the point, but it is frustrating as a mentor and leader when a few of our kids come running to us telling is some "guy" was yeling at them to sit.

When its our match, i expect my kids to stand up and cheer for the team. And my response is exactly been the same for 6 years....if you cant see...STAND. If your scouting, go to the side.

This competition isnt about scouting....its about fun. Dont kill the fun. Please. I will continue to tell my kids to stand....sorry if this offends anyone.

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

It certainly doesn't offend. But the overall message I would give to all teams who do stand up for each of their matches as we do, just remember that you do not come first. Come early in the day each day to grab a small section up high behind other teams so you can stand and cheer however you want. Do NOT stand in the full rows and make a giant wall, take a small section on the side. Have your scouting team site off somewhere else in the front so they aren't blocked. This is the importance of waking up early, haha. When you know you are a team that stands, let those around you know beforehand so that all of a sudden you don't piss them off. If you are asked, just calmly sit down.

For those who say that "yelling" at the team to sit is ok, I tend to disagree, is there really an issue for you to just go to one of thier adults and ask for them to sit? If they stand for that match, is it really a problem to view the Jumbotron for those 2 minutes or whatever portion of time the team stands?

Its not really a big deal once both the alleged offender and the offended consider each others' point of view. For example, at Philadelphia, 1403 and 816 went to the top deck in order to have a full cheering section, it was awesome and loads of fun. Just don't make a big deal out of little things.

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

While the drive team is too absorbed in what they are doing to see (or hear) you during a match, it doesn't mean standing or cheering is bad. These things make the experience more fun for everyone involved. If you want to stand to show your spirit, do so in the back of the stands where there is no one behind you that you will offend. This is a good compromise to the situation- you can stand/wave signs, others can still see. No one should be arguing about this. Team 241 in CT was a terrific example of this- they had tons of lettered signs they used to spell out words, which everyone loved. They sat in the back, thus not blocking anyone's view. Problem solved, all parties happy. ;)

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

haha thanks, sorry i was a little hot headed and forgot to say that I never have my kids stand in rows. We always tell them to sit in blocks. That was its better for cheering with each other and helps not create the wall. But i 100% agree with you, we shouldn't make it a big deal. but as a mentor it makes me angry when people "yell" and especially when they talk to me like im a student (but i guess i don't blame em....i am young"

Re: Sitting down during matches
 

I know Colorado has one(in the corner by the red alliance's drivers).