Re: Next Year's Game?
 

Realistically, I think it is apparent that physical contact between robots is a key part of a successful game. Additionally, when dramatic things happen, like giant balls flying through the air or robots colliding at high speed, the audience will become much more interested. Any game that contains enough of these exciting elements will help FIRST grow. I think the GDC has been getting better at this, and the highly effective robots playing Lunacy were all very exciting to watch.

Adding more Robots to the field in a match, or Economizing the program in general is not the direction FIRST should be taking. If many American schools can build stadiums for school football teams, it seems reasonable that they should be able to pay the FRC entry fee every year.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

Next year their should be three allinences and they should use the light thing like they did a couple of years ago.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

I am hoping for less human player and like others said, a floor like FTC had where only parts were different. There were certain places on the field with different flooring.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

What, you want a 2v1?

I'm sure you have mentors who were around in 1998 or before. Ask them what happens when you have 3 teams on the field. Now, multiply by number of teams per alliance. Meet the alliance system...

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

Yeah, I have to agree. I wasn't around physically, nor were any of my mentors, but judging from the videos I've seen, the 1v1v1 games mostly turned into 2v1. I don't think that's much fun, so I much prefer the 1v1 alliances they have in place now.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

I'd like to see flying robots (it might be possible)

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

Possible? It's absolutely possible.

Probable? Probably not ... mostly because of the safety issues (especially e-stop issues).

But I, too, would love to see a flying robot.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

How ironic seeing as C.O.R.E. 2062 got the UL Safety Award at 10K Lakes AND WI regional.

I would like to see flying bots though if the safety issues were resolved.

Maybe a large net made of steel cables or teflon . . .

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

I personally believe that the use of spherical objects in first comes out of necessity. They are readily available and rather easy to build an easily followable and captivating game around. Therefore I believe that the game for next year should include a spherical game piece; however, I believe it should also include another less comfortable game piece (cones? or cubes?) that will be introduced into the game in smaller quantities and be worth a premium in points.
As for the spherical game pieces they should come in three colors red, blue, and white. Each alliance has a set number of balls of their color, say 15, that as you score them they are recycled into play and each alliance can not score the other alliance's game pieces and are only allowed to hold such a piece for a short period of time to prevent an opposing robot from collecting and possessing all of the opposing alliance's game pieces for the entirety of the match. The white balls would be usable by both teams and introduced in a larger quantity, around 60 when they are scored they are not recycled back into play and they are worth fewer points. At each end of the field there are two stationary goals placed in the corners Each goal has a light above it that turns on randomly for an interval no shorter than 10 seconds yet the total duration that they are on totals 1 minute 30 seconds, both lights will be off for a period of 5 seconds when the light is changing. Game pieces can be scored through the lit goal for a greater number of points and through the other for a minimal number of points. There are also two small goals at the edge of the field that amount to a 2 foot wide slot 18" up on the lexan wall that may be scored in for a small number of points slightly greater than the raised goal whose light is off. Balls scored in these goals are not recycled into play.
Now for the unusual game pieces. There are five of these pieces on the field the number is designed to promote end game strategy. Four of them are placed in corners on hinged ledges beneath the lit goals. These pieces are worth a sizable number of points and each robot may only possess one at a time. They are designed to be unwieldy and to make other scoring difficult when in possession of them making the time at which they are obtained very important. The fifth piece is placed in the middle of the field on a slightly raised platform. These pieces are to be colored a striking purple.
In this game the autonomous period would be extended to 30 seconds and the teleoperated mode would be 2 minutes. Also the robot size limitations should shrink, but the robots would once again be allowed into an orientation not necessarily contained in the bumper zone.
A game like this, in my opinion, would be fun to watch and hopefully to compete in.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

I like your way of thinking. It seems to be well thought out with several different objectives that can be attempted based on the team's capabilities. One other variable that can be added is to have the white balls of a different size, just to make things a little more difficult. :p

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

I'm going to disagree with your first point. In 2003, teams had no trouble finding the game object in sufficient quantities for two teams to set up a field between them. (Keeping the Sterilite containers intact, however, was another story. We had about 30 at Kickoff, and about 3 after the season.) Same sort of thing in 2007 (and 1997, too, I think). The only other two games with non-spherical game objects that I can remember, 2005 and 1999, the teams got plans from FIRST and had to build their own.

I'm with you on the out-of-bumper perimeter spec. I don't know about the size shrinking (it's hard enough to fit everything as it is), but I'd like to see the multiple size/weight classes return.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

So this is what it is going to come down to. Every three years they bring a certain type of game back.

06 & 09 = Game was determined by scoring multiple balls
05 & 08 = Was determined by raising a game piece
04 & 07 = Was determined by the robot itself

So what we might be looking for is a game that it will come down to how the robot can do something, either by itself (like hanging), or with the help of their alliance members (raising them up).

I think it would be nice if they threw everything out of the window, and invented a game that had the mindset of "Aim High" and "Raising the Bar" together.

Keep the carpet idea because teams learn more on the basis of carpet, then add the hoops like Aim High did, and maybe even a couple moveable trailers that you can move around the field. Then having bars set on each side of the field that the robots can hang from, either having to score on the opposite side of the field, or even right in front of you.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

By that logic:

2004 was just hanging on the bar (and those purple and yellow balls meant nothing), and 2007 was just ramps (and that big obstacle in the middle meant nothing). Please note that 2003 did not even have balls on the field, and if you could raise a goal more than about 2 inches in 2002, you were really doing well. And what about 2001, when your score was based on how fast you completed the task?

That's not the pattern, if there is one.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

Although the game pieces weren't large or heavy in '07, they were still being raised like in 05 and 08. I do see that 09 and 06 were similar because of pickup mechanisms and ball storage containers etc. 08 was weird because there was no defense and it was a race, I still liked it though. 05 reminded me of 07, lifting game pieces, defence and then going to your home zone to either get on a ramp or just stay there.

Re: Next Year's Game?
 

The more I think about it, the more I love EricVanWyk's ball sorting idea.

Imagine two goals on opposite ends of the field. Some sort of obstacle/endgame item in the middle (a 4x4 all the way across the field? A ramp? A bar to hang on?). FIRST Frenzy-esque ball chutes that release a mixture of white and black (for example) balls.

Red wants the black balls in goal 1 and the white ones in goal 2. Blue wants the white balls in goal 1 and the black ones in goal 2.

Robots can sort the balls themselves using their sensing capabilities, or they can give the balls to their human players to be sorted by hand and re-deposited into the robots or the goals directly. Or, maybe you decide to build a robot that selectively picks up only a certain color of ball. Or...

I get really excited thinking about how various teams would try and solve this problem.