New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Has anyone heard of any official FIRST announcements as to whether or not a CRIO will be included in the KOP next year for existing teams?

There was some discussion at one point that FIRST may not include a CRIO in the KOP for teams that already have one. I am wondering if there have been any announcements about that.

- T

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Around this time last year, it was announced that the teams would only have one cRIO ever unless they specifically purchased more. This means that there will not be another cRIO in the KOP. This is so that the cost of the KOP doesn't skyrocket another few $k.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I do believe that teams will have to option of purchasing a cRio next year for the same highly reduced price that the 2nd one was offered for this year.

I think that teams need to start exploring the possibilities of more modular design for their robot that allows the cRio to be easily removed and moved from one application to another.

One can purchase the other boards at a reasonable cost... simply moving a few cables and adding power allows the cRio to be put into a new system quite easily...

Our team will be designing a simple bench testing application that will allow us to power up motors , pneumatics etc... to help teach new programmers ....
We plan on testing new encoders and other sensors with our bench applicatoin..we will use the same cRIO and plug it in and out...

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

If you visit http://decibel.ni.com/content/community/first you will see that on the right in red words that teams can purchase a cRIO for $750 once a year.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I would certainly hope that every year's KOP comes with a complete control system. Many new and/or struggling teams use their old robots in exhibitions and fundraisers. Having only one control system total would severely hamper the ability of teams to venture out into their communities and gain support.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Perhaps we will continue to get all of the control system parts except the cRio itself. This would be quite reasonable... especially considering that something will have to be done to the driver's station...

If teams continue to receive all of the other system parts... ie digital sidecar, analog sidecars, power distribution block...radios ...etc...
they would not have a real difficult time switching the cRio back and forth.

We will see what happens in just 8 months at kick off... or possibly sooner.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

We also face the need to take demo robots out on tour, and it is a shame to have $3K street value of electronics sitting idle for most of the year or from year to year.

The cRIO does not lend to quick mount/dismount from one robot to the next. (OTOH, I'd love to see your quick change design on your robot). The daughter boards make it a little easier to reuse the modules. But I was (and still) am surprised about how kludgey the new system is to wire.

I'd love to give high marks to the Power Distribution system. The spring loaded connections are nice, we did not have a failure all year. Which is good, because it's a real pain to need 6" of clearance around the board to get a screwdriver and a hand into the space to be able to maniuplate the connector. (Why yes, I'd love to see your custom Z bent tool you came up with)

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I would think that it is going to include a new one, however after hearing how much NI had to donate to incorporate them into last year's kit, I don't know how long they could keep it up. Although, I don't know how much of the MSRP is already a hefty markup.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Here you go: http://www.wago.us/products/2453.htm

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Don't quote me but it seems I heard a rumor that NI was working on a stripped down (less $$$) version for the future. I would really like to see some imbedded analog and digital modules if some enterprising company would like a project. I don't have anything against the current hardware, just would like to miniaturize and simplify the hardware for rookies.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

If leaving the cRio out of the KoP allows FIRST to reduce entry fees by $750 (the discounted price of a replacement cRio) then teams would have the option to either pay $6,000 and get a new cRio, or pay $5,250 and re-use their old one.

If FIRST makes replacing the entire control system optional, then entry fees, perhaps could be reduced by even more than the $750 discounted cost of the cRio.

I'm not sure how best to handle entry fees for rookie teams, who don't already have a cRio, as I believe it is important to keep the "entry barrier" to a competition like this as low as possible, however I know that our team, for one, would seriously consider reusing our cRio and modules if it meant saving in the neighbourhood of a thousand bucks.

By the way, we have a fairly modular control board on our robot that weighs about 14 pounds, includes the cRio, sidecars, breaker box, power switch, speed controllers and a couple of spikes that can be attached and detached in, well, probably 10 minutes or so.

Photos of the control board and drive modules are at:

http://www.trobotics.ca/#Build%20Season%202009

Photo 19 shows the control board, 21 shows it hooked up to drive modules, Photo 26 in that gallery probably shows our modular design in its most separated stage, other photos show us weighing the modules (our withholding limit) and the very minimalist package that went in the shipping crate, as we were able to keep the drive modules and control board at home for practice.

Jason

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

You make me think of an interesting idea, what if FIRST gave teams the opportunity to customize their KOP. I know logistically it would be a nightmare but from my perspective it would be nice to not get things we never use. For example, I know there are teams that never use the kitbot frame. I also know that we would have preferred to have the IFI frame over the AndyMark one (Just due to our knowing the limitations of it) I am sure there are teams that have 4 kitbot frames sitting in their shop that they have never used. Why should they have to pay for them? From that perspective, let teams choose their KOP contents well ahead of time and FIRST can save a little money by not providing teams that dont want a part with all the parts.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

No? Two bolts. One power connector with two small screws. One standard RJ45 network connector. Two to six snap-in modules. Seems pretty quick to me.

Or you could go all out like we did this year, and make the entire electronics subsystem a self-contained box. A pair of anderson powerpole connectors for each motor, a DB-25 for connection to sensors and the signal light, and four mounting holes. (The battery does need to be mounted outside the box.) Our second control system, built to the same design, was occasionally connected to the competition robot's sensors using a DB-25 extension cable for program testing.

We mounted our Power Distribution on several-inch-high standoffs to get it up where the supplied Wago tool could be used without running into other components. The space underneath ended up being a convenient spot for the accelerometer and yaw rate sensor boards.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Basically, the KOP has remained consistent from year to year. The elimination of a Control System would be a substantial deviation from the 'norm'.

Until this past weekend, we hadn't given it a second thought about not being supplied another Control System next year. After hearing about the large contribution NI has made to provide these components and software to the teams, a duplication of this KOP item may not be included each year.

Being this system is going to be used in the coming years, our Team will definitely want to have at least (1) additional complete system for spare and testing. If we're not going to receive another within the 2010 KOP, we'll re-allocate some funds to purchase another soon. But, by no means, can we justify doing this if it the system will be supplied in the 2010 KOP.

Anyone know who the FIRST contact would be on this issue? Please send a link to this thread so our concerns can be noted.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

That would be awesome...But what are the odds of FIRST actually charging us less when we receive a lesser product, instead of just continuing to charge us the full cost for less?

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Im with you whole heartedly on this Cory. We purchased a complete system at the beginning of this season so that we can always have 2 robots up and running. Now if FIRST does not include a control system next year in the KOP, the entry fee better be reduced. I along with, I believe, many people are already slightly leary about the finances of FIRST and this would just solidify things in my mind. From what Dean said, NI donated all of the systems so I don't see what we would be paying for next season if we dont get another system. I am completely ok with reusing the CRio, but please FIRST, reduce the already high entry fee. I guess it would also be nice if FIRST offered a KOP without a lot of the parts that many teams end up not using like the kitbot. That should be fairly easy since I believe the kit bot is in a separate box than the other crates. I guess after seeing that FIRST can be run cheaper from the michigan district format, I don't really understand why all teams can't have reduced entry fees.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Somewhere around being struck by lightning 4 times in a row.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

i certainly do hope that a new cRIO is included, or we can buy one for a discount. 1089's broke during CMP's, and we are currently borrowing the one 2590 won in the raffle. funnily, that cRIO has the signatures of the president and founders of N/I, and its sitting in our robot...

thx to 2590 for that, and i really hope we can find one soon so we can return it to you...

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

As far as I know, everything will be included in the kit of parts except for the cRIO. That was what was originally announced I believe through the WPI FAQ.

Q Will I get a new controller in each year’s kit?
A Because of the ruggedness of CompactRIO, teams will be able to reuse their controller in competition years beyond 2009. However FIRST may decide to introduce new cRIO modules to the system and other restrictions or allowances may be made specific to future year game designs.

http://first.wpi.edu/Images/CMS/Firs...nical_Rev4.pdf
(Last question)

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

If your cRIO is broken you should be able to send it into NI to get it replaced/repaired. I know I've seen contact info around somewhere, but I don't recall where.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Based on this post on Bill's Blog about reusing components from the new control system, it appears that there are plans to reuse the cRIO and some other components from year to year. I remember seeing somewhere later about a plan for every other year to get a new cRIO, but that may have been someone's idea and not an official announcement.

That being said, there have been the DS issues this year that are getting teams a new DS for next season. What effect this will have on the rest of the system being used remains to be seen...

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Well, if I was a gambling man I would bet a HEFTY sum that we will NOT get another cRIO next year, AND that the registration/kit "price" will also NOT be reduced ...

I wholeheartedly agree on the questionable FIRST finances concern. I think there needs to be much more DETAILED transparency (or maybe I just need to do a bit more research).

And, if the fact that the original KOP cRIOs were 100% donated should make a difference in next years team fees, then why were the fees not reduced this year??

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I've had it in the back of my mind all season that we would not get a new cRio next year.

As to the KoP price vs. what's in it....I've never been bothered by the robot parts cost, it's relatively trivial compared to what we spend on travel. Yes, I'm involved in fundraising for the team.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

For one team it may be trivial but when you multiply it by 1700 it can become a decent chunk of money. And, as a team that doesn't spend money on travel expenses, the KOP is the most expensive thing we buy. Knock some money off that and it would be appreciated.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Then you should consider yourselves fortunate :P

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

They actually had a much cost reduced version on display at the booth so it isn't a rumor.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I'm betting if it were possible to do a hard core analysis of the full life cycle of the control components for all teams in the system there would be an annoying waste of material. The disposition of robots for probably 70%+ of the teams is probably negative.

Teams that do maintain 'showbots' have to make a business case to provide support to maintain the showbots. I think that is going to have to be the case going forward.

It has been a little bit of a peeve of mine with how some teams are not properly regarding the value of the KOP and the robot they build from it. Teams should regard their bot as a "capital asset" and treat it accordingly.

So for us that means maintaining the machines and in some cases rebuilding aspects to make it more "show ready". And that takes time and money.

Put it in your business plan and go from there. It is the same thing all businesses have to do and FIRST is a GREAT training ground for solving these types of problems.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

If it's a lot smaller and lighter, that's a big advantage. The cRIO is a boat anchor and not well suited to a size and weight limited robot where inches and ounces are precious.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Maybe a solution to your problem is using the cheaper old control system on your demo bot. Put the old IFI controls and electronics on it and use the electronics from NI for your competition bot. Unless you are going to use the old bot for off-seasons it doesn't need to be competition legal for demos.

Also, if buying IFI controls is an issue I'm sure you have some sitting around from previous years that you can use.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I have trouble considering it to be a boat anchor...I have too much old tube gear laying around :)

The cRio does have an interesting design, not quite how I would do it, but it takes up far less real estate on our electronics board than the power distribution and speed controllers do, as usual. We took the time to figure out how to mount the cRio down low, with the connections easily accessible, and it really wasn't a size/weight issue at all.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

That was my thought exactly when this was mentioned during the speeches in Atlanta.... I was kind of shocked to hear that. Though, I suppose it is possible that the "cushion" provided by the donation may have simply allowed FIRST to absorb other increases and keep entry fees fixed. As an outsider, it is really hard to say - everything is simply speculation.

A significant barrier to team entry and continuation is the cost of the program. If teams could realize an optional cost reduction in exchange for reuse of some of the more durable parts, I would be all for that.

Personally, I would like to see the cRIO and its IO modules reused year-to-year (with option to replace at FIRST discounted prices, as NI currently offers), but be issued new PD, sidecars, bumpers, etc.
The connections made at the IO modules to the bumpers/sidecars are quick and easy to change out and would make moving the cRIO between robots easy.

I like this approach not only for cost reasons, but for "green" reasons.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

It is a fraction of the weight of the cRIO

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Based on my conversations with many folks during the season, there is a very large and (temporarily?) quiet component of the full FIRST community that has exactly the same concern. If this is indeed ever revealed to be the plan, I hope that EVERYONE impacted by such a decision will let the FIRST Board Of Directors know loudly and clearly what they think. **
Although the cRIO may have been donated, the rest of the new control system wasn't. We still had to pay for all the other parts, such as the speed controllers, power distribution boards, digital sidecars, breakout boards, cameras, routers, drivers stations, etc.). And for all those components that were custom-designed for the FRC competition, there was the cost of the development and production set-up for those items. Only a portion of the development costs were donated by the suppliers - the remainder had to be recovered from our registration fees.

-dave

** Because it will be the Board, not the FIRST staff, that will make this decision. Right now, the Board is seriously disconnected from the teams in FIRST. They don't understand how "small" costs like these really impact this community. There is little direct, personal understanding of the impact of their decisions on the teams. During the recent combined Board Of Directors / Executive Advisory Board meeting in Atlanta, the question was asked "how many of you work directly with a team and have experience as a mentor?" Out of the entire room of people, only one hand went up. I think that is a huge problem.



.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

All right, how do we communicate with them?



Not sure how unreasonable it is, but setting up a program where each of them spends at least a weekend with a team might be a good experience.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Dave,
If anyone ever asks, I have volunteered to share with anyone at First, the GDC included. I know that First is strapped for cash like the rest of us. However, my first concern is for students. Decisions should not be made without a thought of how it impacts them, first. That includes those who have not yet joined our ranks, the rookies of the future.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

More importantly, how can we get them on teams. Actively on teams, preferably not the well funded teams, the teams that struggle to find funding each year. Let them try to figure out how to afford a KoP AND how to keep students from having to pay for things because they can't. I dont say this out of spite or anger, merely because I want them to understand where we come from when we say it is too expensive.

Baring that, Adam has a good idea, at least give them a little bit of time with teams so they can see what the problems are.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Weekend??? Try two to three weeks, or more. (I know that would be unrealistic to expect, but it would really give a good feel for reality.)

Adam, this is a fantastic idea!!! My concern is that the Board Of Directors / Executive Advisory Board would spend that time with many of the big name, well established, fully funded teams. That is well and good, but by no means represents the vast majority of the FIRST community. If we want them to see the full impact of making decisions, they need to observe the full range of teams that exist in FIRST. From the teams that are able to build two fully functional robots per year (one practice, one competition) to the teams that can barley get the KOP bot built and running in six weeks.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I think this is a great idea Adam. If we can't physically get the board members on a team, then maybe a forum should be set up and they be required to check it. On this forum we can discuss things like financial concerns and such. I know for our team and probably many teams, the KOP is pretty much useless except for the motors and controls. Now if the controls are not included the next year, we will be getting basically no extra value from the KOP and the $6000 entry fee will become even more steep when considering the value. Particularly with the district event showing that events can be run cheaper and teams can pay less to play more matches, every team should have this advantage, not just the teams who are fortunate enough to be located in Michigan.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

you write courteous letters that point out the issues and offer solutions. And you pray that somebody listens.

Recently a few of us in the NE did just that and we have a dialogue going. But the original response I was getting was akin to "well- you are the only one with problems"

If you never takes steps to solve problems you cannot just complain that they exist.

WC :cool:

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

A customized KOP (say 3 options?) sounds like a great idea.
Even though teams get many donated items every year, I hate to see it go to waste where it just stockpiles somewhere.
We personally try to give away and lend teams the stuff we dont use every year, except motors of course............but there is still that problem of waste.

I realize that it is an additional cost to customize KOPs, but maybe with the weight saved in shipping a lighter box, it will offset it, with the hopes of providing a cRIO every year.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

One slight problem with the customized KoP idea is that we don't know what we need until after we get the KoP....we build our robot to play the game, and the game is announced about the same time we get the kit, and we need a few days at least to figure out whether we want to use pneumatics, kit frame, etc.

As far as whether or not we want a new cRio for that year, it should be pretty easy to decide ahead of time (before signing up for the first regional).

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Glad to hear someone has a normal boat that can't be held in place by 929 grams.

Anyway, to explain what was in the NI booth, we actually had three generations of the cRIO. The drop test was the original generation of modular system. It consists of a cpu module, a backplane module, and the I/O modules. The backplane has the FPGA and comes in four and eight slot sizes. This rectangular packaging allowed the controller to fly to around 4000 ft in a rocket -- slides into the tube like a loaf of bread along with the battery.

The FRC cRIO is called the integrated unit. It is lower weight and lower cost because the cpu and backplane are integrated into one PCB. It wasn't officially released when discussions about its use began.

The third generation on demo is often referred to as the single board RIO. It has the module connectors on the edges to flatten the product from a loaf of bread into a pizza, and in fact doesn't come with a housing since it is designed to be integrated into a cabinet on large machinery, etc. This product was also under development when discussions began, but wouldn't be released early enough, doesn't have an enclosure, etc.

Greg McKaskle

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

i hope a new cRio will be in the new KOP
we drilled holes into the one we had in order to make weight
unfortunately that was illegal and we had to borrow at both regionals and Championships

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I guess you found out the hard way that you should read the whole manual, not just the "important parts". Lesson learned, I hope...

If there isn't a cRIO in the KOP, you'll have to buy one at the discounted price.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Thinking ahead, we designed our entire electrical system to be 100% removable. The only thing I would have to do (electrical captain) in make 2 new muti-connectors one for power and one for data and then plug into new robot.

Also very cool feature....from working robot to electrical board in my hands and showing to a judge is around 30 seconds with a helper. We did time trials for fun and my number 2 and myself did it in 18.7 seconds. It was a fun night. :) :eek:

mcf747
Mortorq 1515

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

One interesting thing I've noticed about the electronics...if you take the time and make the effort to design your electronics layout, mounting, and connections so it's easy to service, then you probably won't have to fix anything! I think it's a corollary to one of Murphy's laws.

We came up with a nice layout, very easy access, etc and never had to fix anything.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I get this. For the 2009 season, I was not directly connected to a team and I could feel the disconnect develop over the season. Just.one.season. It doesn't take long for the disconnect to leave you completely out of touch with the reality of the team(s) and what they face/deal with every single day. Not every single day of build or every single day of competition - every single day. I hope I don't go through another year/another season of not being connected to a team. It will make me useless in areas of understanding the needs/priorities and struggles of the teams in the region I am in. In the bigger picture, a disconnect can create harm, chaos, and it can damage morale. Seriously.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Greg, Can you give any further information on the cost targets, the schedule, the size, and the interface options for the 3rd generation cRio? From your description it is not clear to me that it meets Al's desired cheaper, simpler, and smaller goals. Which by the way I share:)

Thanks,

Mark

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I will echo what Dave said earlier. Everyone needs to weigh the costs of all decisions. One good example is this year's playing surface.
Assuming we don't use it again... we can look at the money spent like this:

Cost of a whole field of FRP was something approaching $1500 at undiscounted prices.

If we assume that every regional area probably had at least two or more practice fields.... This is a cost of 40 X 2 X 1500 = $120,000

If 1000 teams each bought 2 sheets at $30 a sheet that would be an additional $60,000.

So in a very conservative estimate... FIRST teams spent $180,000 on FRP this year.

Now the real cost is probably closer to $250,000 just for this material.

And yes... the cost of carpet would have been comparable... but carpet was used many times...in fact the carpet we used under our practice field was from 2 years ago...and you did need carpet under the FRP to match field conditions...

It was an interesting game... but in terms of how costly... the field was high cost.... and not reusable...
so the green cost was also high... FRP is probably partially made from petrochemicals...and what do we do with it now?

These kinds of issues... need to be considered...
Cost is magnified as we get bigger...

If everyone needed an extra Driver's Station this year because they needed a spare... that would be a cost of approximately 1500 X the $162 cost
or $243,000 Even if only 500 teams needed extra driver's stations the cost is $81,000 to teams...

If 1500 FIRST teams could each save even $250 from their cost of entering the competition that would be $375,000

This perhaps is the most telling statement.... FIRST would not get that money...

There is no good answer,
Next year's game should have someone on the GDC that oversees exactly this kind of thing...

both the $$$ hidden costs....
AND the Green costs of the game.
We need to start reusing things....
And we certainly should not be wasting anything...

Perhaps at the end of the season teams could get a rebate on the next year by sending BACK certain unused materials...
This might make more sense than a shopping cart approach to the kit.

just an idea

Anyone want to purchase some used FRP?

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

There are currently eight SB-RIO models described on the web site which were announced and shipped this spring. The configurators do not include pricing on the SB-RIO, presumably because they are targeted for OEM usage. If you really want pricing for nonFRC projects, you are supposed to call. My info is from http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/7441.

The original cIO has traditionally been used for prototyping and low volume systems. The SB-RIO is a highly compatible version better suited for integration in higher volume production. If CERN were building dozens more Large Hadron Coliders, perhaps it would be cost effective for them to design a housing and switch to the SB-RIOs :) . Seriously though, the FedEx fire suppression system project does a better job of demonstrating the relationship between the original and SB-RIO. http://sine.ni.com/cs/app/doc/p/id/cs-11310

As for size -- It is different. The integrated cRIO is a loaf of bread. If you remove the PCB from the housing, flip the I/O connectors to the edges, you have something more like a square-ish pizza. There are photos of SB-RIOs on the above links.

I agree that this may not meets Al's cheaper, simpler, and smaller goals. The SB-RIO was developed independent of FRC, and should not be viewed as an attempted optimization for FRC.

Greg McKaskle

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

as a student from a rookie team, i really hope we do get another CRIO + all stuff to go with, since we don't have the money to buy one (we blew it all on going to Atlanta) and would really like to have at least two (one for the comp bot, one for a practice bot/demo bot)

overall, i like everything about the CRIO other than weight (but i'm not a programmer... other than web)

^^^ same goes for the jaguars..... (oh, and the part about them dying if they get even the slightest bit overloaded... the Victors were much more reliable (i was on another team before starting this one) and MUCH lighter...)

just my $.02

-Z

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I'm sure you have probably thought of this, but we just didn't ship our CRIO, and brought it with us to our competitions.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

true, but it's nice to be able to have multiple versions (ie. ne for programmers to work with, and one for the drivers to practice with...

it's also a hassle (easier w/ the CRio than IFI RC) to swap it on and off the bot...

also, it'd be fun to have two bots at off-season demo's for potential sponsors, that way, we could show off what it's all about...


-Z

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I really overestimated how much of a hassle swapping is this season. I saw 254 swap it in/out at vegas and it really didn't take much time at all. Network cord, power input, modules, whatever fasteners, done.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

The Board of Directors that makes the decisions has a member listing here:
http://www.usfirst.org/who/content.aspx?id=52

The first 18 people on the list are the folks that matter. I would imagine that Googling around a little will get you some contact info.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I have already tried, for similar reasons as everyone else, and of course got the traditional GDC answer:
(to the effect of) "The 2010 KoP will not be released until the 2010 Kickoff, and if FIRST chooses to reveal any additional information, it will be through an "Email BLAST""

So, sounds like they do not even know yet

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

You sir, just inspired me.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

Be very careful what you ask for. Because we (the teams) will end up paying for it.

It sounds like as FIRST has grown, it has fallen victim to the same mentality that large corporations in the US have. More specifically, the most problematic issue facing many of these companies today:

The 'management' believes that people can not be promoted internally to take leadership positions, and that oversite boards have to be "hired" from executives "at large". That boards of directors can be built from random personnel not suited or experienced in that business, or people who have very little stake in the success of that company.

I never understood why people in any particular industry would believe that someone from another industry, just because he has the word "Director" or "Manager" next to his name, would make a more effecitive employee and be worth more than someone who worked up through the ranks.

Why is FIRST's governing body not made of active Woodie Flowers Award winners?

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

While I do respect most of the WFA winners, i'm not sure that would help matters much. Granted it would give some insight into the process that isn't there currently, but I just don't see it changing to terribly much.

On the other hand, perhaps the GDC could use a shake up, maybe the WFA would be better suited to rotate a few members through each season to keep things fresh.

Re: New CRIO in the KOP next year?
 

I think it is important to note that at least three people on that list regularly attend FIRST events and do talk to as many teams as they can. These three are beyond those you recognize and see at the podium. The person who shows up in your pit and asks questions may actually be a board member.