**FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

Greetings Teams:

In the 2010 season, FRC teams will have the option of programming their robot in Java. The addition of Java as a programming language option is the culmination of work by Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) and researchers from the Sun SPOT project at Sun Microsystems Laboratories. To learn more as you wait for the 2010 season to begin visit [ http://www.sunspotworld.com/frc/Welcome.html ]http://www.sunspotworld.com/frc/Welcome.html and [ http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/frc-programming.html ]http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/frc-programming.html.$@# We’ll be updating both locations as details are finalized.

If you are planning to hold an off season event or host a demonstration of your robot over the summer, you might want some extra game pieces. Used orbit balls (the ones that survived championship) are available for purchase starting today here [ http://logoloc.com/first/ ]http://logoloc.com/first/ Quantities are limited. If you are borrowing a FIRST field for your off season event, please remember that game pieces are not included in the loan.

Go Teams!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

The first store still says the balls are sold out. Wouldn't you think FIRST would figure it all out before sending out an email?
Also, had to use this route to even get there: Home > New Items > 08 Track Balls > 09 Orbit Balls.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

They're in stock now. Anyway, it's disappointing that the orbit balls are a $3 item with $6 in handling fees per ball...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Here is the proper link for everyone.

http://www.logoloc.com/first/RNR/200...rbitBalls.html

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

$6.31.

I say about dang time for those inflatable clown game pieces. At least they can be flattened for cheaper shipping.... But then, handling inflatable clowns is a very delicate situation, I'm sure. $13.95 in handling fees per clown!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Warning, extreme sarcasm and cynicism ahead ...

I hear ya. This isn't even a bad joke. for weeks now, I've been saying we need about 10 more orbit balls for demos etc, since were down to four. I figured FIRST might have some left for us after the season and was excited to see this email. So I went to the LogoLoc link. Then I had to dig around a little to actually find the page. Then, I realized not to click on the wordy links which didn't work. (Disclaimer: I'm 100% sure this will all eventually work right today at some point as is always the case with this stuff. Quality control appears to always occur AFTER team email blasts go out and folks experience problems, but that is a rant for another day)

Clicking on the pretty pictures of the balls worked. Woohoo!!!! $3 per ball. Now that's GREAT for teams. Look here:
http://logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009Gam...ange-blue.html

Neat, i thought, we'll get 10! $30 in balls plus shipping and handling seems like a great deal. Then I clicked the dreaded "add to cart" button and found this:
Empty Cell Orbit Ball -
$3 + $6.31 Handling 9.31 each 93.10
All prices are in US Dollars Subtotal 93.10
Shipping 0.00
TOTAL 93.10

Well now, isn't that a kick in the pants. My $3 orbit balls incur a $6.31 handling charge, EACH!!!

Oh, and yeah, with my total now being $93.31 I came to realize that this didn't yet include shipping costs.

GAHHHHHHHH!
Thanks but no thanks. Unless someone infuses some sanity here, I'm going back to begging area teams for a few balls/ball remnants.

Travis is right, send in the clowns! Oh wait, maybe they're already here... ;)

[/ extreme sarcasm and cynicism]

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

By the way, you have to click the picture of the orbit ball to order. You can't click the link. Guess this was really quickly put up.

I might buy one or two as memorabilia, and/or because they're fun to kick around. For $10. :(

Why does this product have to be discontinued :confused: If you wanted a full game field of plastic and fabric, you'd need more than $1300. I can see demos doing "volunteer make a GUS ball" drives. At least it's a fraction of the price.

Does anyone notice that the green ball is called a "fuel cell"? That actually makes more "logical sense" than Supercell. You return an Empty Cell to the fueling station and it becomes a... bad thunderstorm? That never made sense to me. I guess it was originally going to be called a fuel cell.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Wow $3 moon rocks:)

Then $6.31 shipping/nuisance fee:ahh:

Are you kidding me?:confused:

I'm with Rich; back to beggin'

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

With game piece mark-ups like these, it's no wonder teams tried to steal some this year!!! Full bags of them no-less. I guess they were just trying to plan ahead, & with off-season prices like these who could blame them in all honesty??
Not that I condone such an action, especially when they are needed during the regular season, but what's worse? - The blatent theft of game pieces, or the extreme mark-up of USED game pieces at ridiculous rates??

$0.02

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

I don't actually want any Orbit balls, but I wanted to see what happened when I added shipping. This is what I found:

Ball $3
Handling $6.31
Shipping to Seattle area $66.73

Total for one ball shipped to Seattle: $76.04

It's hard to avoid sarcasm and negative thoughts right now.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

That is just embarrassing. FIRST store should be embarrassed.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

At least you got a shipping price. My screen says that there is no UPS shipping to my area. That's Houston...

I guess we aren't a large enough city. :eek:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

I bet that is better than the $244.74 they want to ship to Orlando!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

I tried to ship it to Orlando, FL and it tells me Orlando is not a part of US...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Right, the same was true for my school and home zip codes. So, even if I choose to get fleeced (oops, was that out loud?), I can't even complete the transaction online anyway. That's when I decided to quit, because it's really not a good idea for me to follow up on the phone with anyone over this. I'm wondering if our old poof balls will work in the robot for demo purposes.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

On a lighter note, a $76 orbit ball ought to score itself, in autonomous, don't ya think?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

But it doesn't gain any more points then any orbit ball scored in teleop mode. So what's the point?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

This email came out a bit late...April Fool's day was six weeks ago!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Hey Rick,

It is only $59 to Greenville...
Want me to buy you one, and then ship it the rest of the way? I think that would be cheaper. I can save you some money!

-John

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Somebody tell'm they have options other than Sheppard ... :rolleyes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Hey, thanks John. What would the import duties cost coming across the border from Texas?

- Rick

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

I think it will be more than $7.00 to ship it from Dallas to Seattle, its only 2200 miles.

Unless the Robowranglers have perfected the teleportation system...::safety::

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

True, we are our own country....:)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Not quite what I was hoping for.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Hmm... I'm close(ish) to NH.
Maybe they will allow pick-up??
I doubt it.
They charged full price chipping last year to deliver 2 trackballs across the street to the FIRST docks for an off-season I helped with.

I will say that Logo-Loc is a very cool service & I am glad overall that they help FIRST with branding & marketing, but their shipping & handling practices & prices, especially with the game pieces are just ridiculous & have been over the past few years.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels the same way, I'm just a little dissapointed it took the mass of the FIRST community until now to realize this.

The shipping on tubes from 2007 had very similar price-mark-ups if you recall for anyone who ordered any of those.

And Trackballs in 2008 - same ridiculous handling & shipping fees.
(Although to be fair, those were heavy to ship, so I brushed that one off last year & never bought a set.)

Idk... And to top it all off, they are selling these at ridiculous prices when the balls are USED!!!
Seriously??
I think you can do a little better than that Logo-Loc. :mad:

I challenge you to try & do so in the future.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

For demos, we found some inflated plastic balls at Walmart for $1 each, I spent another dollar and bought a pair of ball inflator needles so I could let some of the air out so they would compress as easily as the orbit balls.

$10 will get you plenty of demo balls...they're light and bouncy, and kids love them

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Competing topics are fun!

A rep from FIRST informs me that they expected the handling to be $6.31 per ORDER, not per ball. They said they were going to "get on it right away".

So I guess a little patience is requested.

In the meantime, don't order a thing (not that you were going to anyway).

Or go after the alternative cheapo ball route.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Thats great, but it still doesn't explain the $50 for ground shipping to TN

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Oh. you mean the kind of ball you can REALLY find at Walmart? Excellent!

I think many of us have known this for the few years you mention, Elgin. I think the fact that this year we are experiencing the same pain with the addition of the huge handling fee being applied per ball (I think it was per order or per 10 or per something before), the fact that some of our zip codes won't even allow a shipping calculation, and the ultimate salt in the wound this year is that they are listed as "used".

I know those little extras this year put it over the top for me for sure. I'm guessing if these were new balls, we'd be paying the $10 per ball plus all of the same fees using LogoLoc's FIRST store?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Ahhh... now try it with brokerage and an exchange rate factored in! :ahh: (Mind you, shipping to Canada is, I'm sure, much easier than shipping to Brazil, Israel, Turkey or anywhere overseas, so I do try to keep my complaints in perspective.)

On the other hand, its not like we HAVE to buy them.... I'm sure the four balls that we have had all season will continue to serve for demonstrations.

Jason

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Don't forget that if you buy more than 12 balls you will be contacted by Logo Loc for additional handling charges. http://logoloc.com/first/RNR/2009Gam...ge-purple.html at the bottom.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

The massive shipping charge is very much probably assuming that you're buying a truckload of balls.

Paying $36 for 10 balls seems much more reasonable than $100. A full field should cost $390 now instead of a few thousand, very much better deal.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Off season events are going to be very, very interesting this year.

/worried since Ramp Riot isn't until November...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Hey, whatever happened to all those replica balls from preseason? I'm positive that those are cheaper... I believe 980 was making those kits? Talk about a HUGE off season fundraiser now with all the events that need massive amounts of balls.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

What a ripoff. They ought to just include a check box for which organ you'd like to sell to cover the cost of your orbit balls.

Seriously? A $6.31 handling fee to put a ball in a box and tape it up? This is a bad joke, right?

You must be doing something wrong. I just googled an Orlando zip code and put it in, and it's $11.45 to ship 12 balls via UPS ground.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

Nope, I tried my Zip Code and got a result then a minute later I tried to recalc it and it reported it wasn't valid. Who knows what their system is doing.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls
 

http://www.lunacygameballs.com/

They're apparently stiffer and not exact replicas of Orbit balls. Also, they cost $100 for 10, so it's really the same price, albeit less destructible.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

I split this conversation into 2 threads into a java discussion and an orbit ball one.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

Wow... I just realized that we are sitting on a gold mine here at AndyMark. :) We have 300-400 of these balls, ready for off-season events.

I would assume that Logo-Loc is going to get this handling fee thing fixed pretty soon. They have been a good partner to FIRST for many years, and I gotta believe that this is a temporary snafu. Hopefully, they'll fix this and people will be happy.

Andy B.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

It seems to already be fixed.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

I put a few fake orders together yesterday, and they seem to have their handling charge issue fixed.

Shipping charges are still pricey. The smallest shipping cost as a percentage of total order cost (33-36%) occurs when you order 20 balls.

I also found that shipping to two adjacent ZIP codes resulted in at least a few dollars' difference in shipping charges. Shipping to a commercial address (say, a sponsor's corporate address....or perhaps a high school) also cuts $4.55 off your order.

To Residential 44410, UPS Ground:

5 balls: $15.00 + $15.82
10 balls: $30.00 + $22.24
15 balls: $45.00 + $29.11
20 balls: $60.00 + $34.24
25 balls: $75.00 + $48.78
30 balls: $90.00 + $63.37

To Commercial 44483, UPS Ground:

5 balls: $15.00 + $11.27
10 balls: $30.00 + $17.69
15 balls: $45.00 + $24.56
20 balls: $60.00 + $29.69
25 balls: $75.00 + $44.23
30 balls: $90.00 + $58.82

Update - I just placed an order for 20 balls, and unless they add it after the fact (grr), NO handling charge was applied at all. When all was said and done, it appears I paid $4.48 per ball. 1/2 price is not horrible, presuming the balls are in usable shape.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

Looks like they are certainly working on it Andy.

Trav, I too saw that no charge was added in the total over the weekend, yet it's still on the screen, so i'm going to see what happens to/with a few of you folks first. The shipping is a little pricey, but not horrid overall.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

Well, they sent me an order confirmation email, where no handling charge appeared in the total, and I'm holding them to it :cool: :

Date : 18 May 2009 - 12:05
Order ID : blah

Payment by Credit card

Product : Quantity : Price
Empty Cell Orbit Ball - $3 + $6.31 Handling : 20 : 3.00

Subtotal : 60.00
Shipping : 29.69
TOTAL : 89.69

Billing details:

[blah blah blah]

Thank you for your order.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

Yep yep... FedEx or UPS charges us different rates for commercial (cheaper) versus residential. Up to this point, AndyMark has not made that distinction in what we charge our customers, but we will probably change that this summer. We are looking at automating our shipping charges and actually are running a test right now with current orders. (we don't dare make broad changes like this during the build season)

Andy B.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****Orbit Ball Discussion****
 

You think that shipping is expensive, our first supply of 6 balls arrived with a $400 shipping bill! Someone got a bit excited and shipped them overnight Texas-London. :ahh:

The shipping option doesn't like my postcode either, I bet the letters really confuse it. If you don't have an option to ship to the UK, don't put it in the drop down menu!

Wetzel