Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

The problem is that far fewer people have the deep understanding of what the code is really doing than write C code. An expert C programmer is a formidable force. But a novice C programmer can really make a mess. High level languages and compilers help to limit the damage of the novice while approaching the same "performance" marks of carefully crafted C code.

This is one of many reasons why I would much rather do robot programming in Java, as very few high school students are experts in any language.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

Point taken.

I still believe that its better to teach from the low level up to give the kids an understanding of why the segfault happens or what that mysterious null pointer was supposed to be, rather than being totally unaware of the problem at all. Then again, that may be too much for a 6 week FIRST season in which case i would agree that java (or labview) is the better option.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

I agree on all counts.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

While it is great to have the programmers learn low level everything and get accustomed with all this, it is simply not as practical. There are those students who are very interested and will take the effort to learn it all during their 4 years in high school. Then there are those teams who can barely find a programmer and if someone can figure out how to write code in java, they can have a working robot. We have the options to suit the needs of different people and teams. You should also consider that there are those who will join a team in their senior year of high school and like programming in Java. Based on that, they will decide to take up CS/IT as their degree. Most students are clueless about their future coming out of high school. THAT is the point. We are not here to graduate engineers and scientists from high school. That's what college is for.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

This discussion just reminded me of this:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/robocode
Enjoy.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

I have learned a lot about LabVIEW through FRC and through use with my Mindstorms NXT kit at home and I absolutely love it for many reasons that I don't want to write a 5000 character essay on. The other two programmers on my team gripe and complain and say it's "ok" and they still use it. They say it can't make games, do everything, and it's not something they're used to (one is an avid C programmer, the other has had experience with Java). I agree that LabVIEW seems to be designed for hardware interaction (exactly what we are doing) and not so much making software, but it does an extremely good job at it in my opinion.

But the one thing that we all agree on is that Java stinks. I haven't had much experience with programming as much as the other programmers on my team, but they say they've had bad experiences with Java, calling it "the worst programming language ever". From what they've told me, I can see where they're going. But I'd stick with LabVIEW no matter what, anyway. :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

Really? I guess we weren't reading the same thread then. I could go back and start quoting other opinions, but what you're saying here is flat-out wrong.

I could start listing reasons as to why Java is a great alternative to C/C++ and LabVIEW, but most of those arguments have already been listed. From my own experience, Java is fun to write with, easy to debug (especially with a nice IDE), and is very versatile.

Please don't come out bashing and making mindless statements, especially when they're based on inaccurate summaries and third-hand stories.

I'd also suggest you try to write anything serious in assembly language before you bash Java as the "worst programming language ever." In the end it was loads of fun, and a great challenge, but oh what a pain :)

(Note: I currently program in Java for a living, and have spent time in the past writing in C/C++, python, and have experimented with assembly and ruby)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Java and Orbit Balls *****JAVA DISCUSSION***
 

Someone gave me a "negative reputation mark" or whatever for my post above, and when I checked up on the thread, I saw that someone else had posted in complaint against my overly negative attitude towards Java. Well, even though this thread is old, I'd like to say I'm sorry and that you two are totally correct. I didn't mean to post a slam against Java, but I should have thought twice before posting that. Especially since Java is widely used and I don't even have much experience with it. All I know is what those other two programmers have told me, which is of Java's weak points and their bad experiences.
So sorry to anybody who thought I was being a snob; I sure had it coming, didn't I.