Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Hello,

This year was our rookie year, and we've managed to accomplish quite a bit. However, most of us think that if the leadership were to be more coherent and do its job more effectively, we could achieve even more.
Thus, we are currently in the stages of building a new leadership under a new CEO.

As part of that leadership, we are to assemble a new hierarchal structure for the team, and work out new methods for the sake of discipline and organization.

My request from you, dear experienced FRC teams, is to help us out on the following:

1. Your team's hierarchal structure. That is, how your team separates its members into several divisions (i.e Engineering, Electronics, Programming, etc.) in a set structure.

2. What methods does your team deploy to motivate people to do their job? Do you require them to be around for a set hours a day?

We're hoping for enough cooperation so that next year our FRC experience would be even better. All sort of input would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
team #3075

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Please share some info about your team.

Relative team size:
Mentor Involvement:
School Involvement:
Access to resources:

These variables can be independent to success, but they will effect recommendations on how to organize a team for success.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Our team's organization is outlined in our team handbook which you could find here: http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...t.aspx?id=7022. This handbook is from 2007 where we had a pretty large team, and some students covered more than one role depending on what they were doing and how much time they wanted to put in. For example, a communications leader could also be on the one of the build subteams. Check out other teams' handbooks for more ideas on organization. Our handbook gets updated every year.

We tried motivating kids by keeping track of how many hours they put in and then judge if they should letter in robotics. Parents then spoke up and the requirements for lettering changed so it's not based on hours but on other requirements. We have not kept track of hours since because some team members weren't completely honest on the sign in sheet and not everyone who was there logging hours was productive. I would not recommend logging hours or offering letters to students in robotics. Very few teams offer letters and being on a FIRST team should pay off enough. Kids should already be motivated to build the best robot they can, and learn as much as they can. They shouldn't need extra incentives.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Thank you both for the swift response.

I was actually asking how your team is built, in order to assess the varying structures and eventually come up with one for ours. Here it is, though:

Relative team size: It was pretty small this year (our first) - 12 members. We've been recruiting lately, and can expect at least double the size for next year.

Mentor Involvement: When it comes to practical work, our mentors don't do anything. So far, they helped us with organizing the team on the run and supplying resources, but that's about it.

School Involvement: The project is based in our school. We've been working closely with the school's management this year, and hopefully next year as well.

Access to resources: Our mentors help us out with that.

Regarding the methods of work motivation. You see, being our first year and all, most of our school wasn't too excited about this "new robotic thingy", so only a select few signed up and later on in the project, most of them resigned, leaving the team with only twelve dedicated members.
However, since we've won the Rookie All-Star award at our regional and got to enjoy a cross-atlantic vacation in Atlanta, everyone is hyped about it right now.

Our worries is that people are going to sign up just for the sake of going to Atlanta or enjoying the fame that comes with winning a few prizes.
With that in mind, our purpose is to motivate them to actually work their $@#$@#$@# off like we did last year... only we lack the method to do so.

As for the link to the notebooks - thank you very much! it is highly appreciated. If I only knew this existed before... :rolleyes:

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Team handbooks are a great way to learn about how teams organize themselves. FIRST links to top team handbooks on their website. They also have a page of resources for new teams, which might help you guys with organization as well. Chief Delphi is also chock full of team handbooks, and posts about team organization if you dig around a little.

Even at the ripe old age of seven years, our team is still working on how we organize ourselves. As our team matures and develops new goals, and as our size and mentor number changes, we have to change our leadership to fit along with it. Our current team size is about 30 including all of our members, but there is always a small core group of very dedicated students. This happens on most teams.

Right now, our leadership structure is based off of a 5-person student management team with a President, Vice President, Community Liaison, Treasurer, and Secretary. These students organize the activities of the whole team, taking into account the input of all of the team members. Each has different responsibilities, but overall they control how the team interacts with students, families, mentors, sponsors, our school, our community, and other teams. You can read about these roles in our team handbook (open the folder that says "Team Documents" and then click the link that says "Team Handbook 08-09" and it will open the Word document). We're expanding upon that for next year to give each role a subcommittee to help accomplish its goals, as our goals grow larger each year.

Students also organize themselves into subteams like mechanical, electrical, programming, strategy, documentation, spirit, community, etc. Usually subteams have their own mentor that supervises them, and students tend to take leadership roles upon themselves to organize the teams. We've tried structures like "declaring" a subteam in the past, and we're probably reorganizing the structure for subteams this year as well. There are many methods that can work, it depends on your team's philosophy and approach to FIRST.

Having a solid system of organization that works for your team is important to keeping your team happy and successful. I'm glad to see you're doing your research to ensure a great next season. Good luck!

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

if you do not get much of a response, it could be because there are numerous threads covering "your question" at length.

We have about 24-35 students typically. Our ground rules are the School is responsible for supporting the program from a Disciplanary and Attendance standpoint. Mentors are of Technical and Non-technical. We currently have 3 "full time" technical mentors, and then 2 Non-technical for website, and Chairman's related activities. We also have parent and school support (some teachers). We have 1 overall team leader that is a mentor. during the build season we break up into functional groups. Each of the 3 tech mentors has a area they lead, and then an area of expertise they advise on. Each mentor typically works with about 6-8 students on a regular basis.


The reason I asked about "your team" was:

There is a lot of danger in:
"With that in mind, our purpose is to motivate them to actually work their $@#$@#$@# off like we did last year... only we lack the method to do so.
"

Often in large groups, 20% of the people will do 80% of the work (not always, but often). If 80% work is good enough to win, you can kick the other students out. If not, then you still need them.

Not everyone involved wants to or will work their &^$%&^$ off. A good leader gets the most they can from those involved and figures out how to get success from that. We always try to make sure there are no net negatives (i.e. way more effort put into them than you will ever get out). A really good goal is to get more students involved, and have them commit to a certain level that you can expect/rely on them to achieve. (5 hrs/ week, 10, 20....). Since travel for your team is likely very costly. I would have a minimum involvement level in order to get to go on the big trip. That can mean hours, fundraising, or a combination of things. This minimum investment level tends to weed out the participants looking for a free ride. Keep it as reasonable as you can. We do our best to reward good behaviours and remove bad behaviours.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Relative team size: ~15 students, ~10 mentors, several parents, ~3 graduates

Mentor Involvement: varies from time to time. our mentors prefer to let the students work by guidance.

School Involvement: we've been forced to move into our school this year. we have a lab with lathes/mills and a prototyping cnc that we are allowed to use, as well as CAD software and other computer stuff.

Access to resources: varies, obviously the above plus our sponsor, DANA, occasionally lets us use their 'real' cnc [3'x3'x5' ish work area]

Student motivation: all of the current students were convinced to join for various reason and almost all (actually all but 1) are still on because they enjoy the program. Its fun, simply.

Travel: students must have 60 build hours in, all of which are scheduled for 'normal' meetings, however, multiple students have amassed over 100 hours in the build season and in '04 one student pulled ~150 hours and it has to be signed by the mentor the student worked with. during the trip, every 4 students has to have a chaparone outside of the competition area unless they have been specifically told to go somewhere or do something, (then -->) in addition we have a buddy system which means during the competiton and at the hotel, each person needs to have a buddy if they leave their room/area.

funding: the team gets funding mostly from DANA <sponsor> and the school however students are required to pay $400 each season to travel and offset expenses. parents acting as chaparones do not have to pay for their room but extra parents pay 100 for their room

suggestions for your team, since you are traveling overseas is definately have chaparones for your students, not to 'baby' them, but to keep them safe and out of trouble, and require certain work-hours to travel/compete with the team. also, as far as motivation goes, tell incoming students that they "have the opportunity to lead your award-winning team to another great season" it usually works and its completely true =) I think i missed this up top, but our team is organized into subgroups: drive/base, GameObjective/manipulator, programming/electronics, and several students that 'gopher' in between sub-teams whenever needed (they also do the website). a mentor and a student co-lead the sub-team. in order to keep the students involved in design, one of the things we do is require every student to watch the game video and come in the next meeting with a possible design which could potentially be used. sorry for the rambling style here but i'll prolly add more later. good luck =)

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Like evreyone above me has mentioned, the Team Handbooks that teams post are very good places to find examples for a team structure. I've went through several of them to try to find some tips to the structure that I wanted my team to have when I was the appointed the CEO for one of the years.

Most teams have the same roles (just in different names) and same heirarchy, and they usually vary from different reasons:
- Team size: Usually bigger teams would like to spread the work between all of the students and to give them all a chance to be part of the doing. These teams have the leasure to have various sub-teams, and sometimes even create sub-sub-teams under those sub-teams since the area of work of the two sub-sub-teams is under the catagory of the sub-team (for example, 1 sub-sub-team of the Shooter mechanisim and 1 sub-sub-team of the Collector mechanisim, which are both under the Operation sub-team)
Smaller teams don't always have a lot of set of hands which know how to work in a certain criteria, say, only one guys knows the programming the best then anyone else in the team. These teams would prefer to have a smaller set of sub-teams. Those smaller teams can also work like the bigger teams, by giving multiple roles for certain members that are really dedicated, but sometimes that could be risky, depending on the type of roles a member is given.
- School/Teachers/Parents/Students: Some schools, teachers and parents will restrict some of the students authority in the team. Some schools will assign the teacher as the team leader or (also) as the responsible for the team's financial aspects, due to the students being, well, students - they are not adult enough to handel financial subjects.
Other restrictions will be the hours of work. Parents won't want their kids to work 24/7, and the parents and teachers wouldn't want the students to have their grades drop due to their time spent on the robotics project.
- Dedication: The overall dedication and hours the students and mentors will want to spend on the project will define how the structure of the team will be. No reason to add other sub-teams like Animation and Vizualization (applying for the Autodesk Awards) if your team wants to work only on the robot and doesn't want to spend their time on the 3d softwares.

I think this question will help you a bit in trying to understand what team structure you want:

Why have a Mangment role in the team?

A: You have decided on having the different and basic sub-teams in your team's orginization - Software, Electronics, Mechanics. Each sub-team is in charge of one part of the robot.
If you have a small team, and the robot is pretty simple, it means that each member sees the other members and gets to spend more time with them and create a better bond between them. If that happens, co-operation goes much more easier in the team, and when each sub-team needs something from the other sub-teams (Mechanics need to know that their new mechanisim works, so they need Electronics to wire the motors and Programming to write a test code to see that the basics of the mechanisim works) because of the close bonds between the team members, the other members will understand the nessecities of their team-mates and will be willing to help them out.
If you have a large team, and the robot is planned to have various complicated areas in it, like a multiple-swivle-woosh-bang-bang arm mechanisim (you can see I am no mechanical guy :rolleyes: ) which is really fast and really powerful, a set of a dozen laser and ion particale sensors to have more presicion on the aim of the arm, the speed of the robot and obstruction evasion AND a neo-Dean-Kamen Algorithm that calculates all the information in 0.00000001 miliseconds pre loop (....Ok, you get my point) - each sub-team will be busy with itself on trying to devlope these crazy stuff.
At some point, one of the sub-teams will need the assistance of another sub-team to do some tests so they can continue their work. There will be soo many projects within the project of building the robot in 6 weeks that could be just too much for everyone.
You need that Management team/guy to look over everything that's going on in the team, check the time schedule and sometimes give the bad news of: "I'm sorry, there just isn't enough time to do what you're planning to do...that is the..."Helicopter Rotor System for Robot Aviation"...?"
The management team needs to be the contact between all sub-teams and to give out a request from one sub-team to another, when there is just too much work to personally contact the other sub-team.
The management team can also take care of other orginizational subjects, such as the finance, communication with other groups (The school, the parent, the local offical FIRST contact, other teams, etc...), public relations and other logistic part of the team.

Hope I've helped and good luck with building your team's structure. :)

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Wow. Frankly, I did not expect such involvement and commitment from the community. Luckily enough, I was wrong. And so I'd like to thank all of you for the well thought input, and assure you that your help won't go in vain.

We have gathered most of the suggestions and made up the following structure:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3207/hierarchy1.jpg

If you have any suggestions for improvements, please do not hesitate to do so.

You guys can't even imagine how grateful I am for all your contributions to this most important topic.

Thank you!

Assaf,
#3075

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

I disagree. Recognition of achievement is a nice thing, whether it's a word of appreciation, a thank you note, a Nobel Prize, the Stanley Cup, a Chairman's Award Banner, or an FTC Inspire Award trophy. If the school is in the practice of awarding letters for team achievement, it is perfectly reasonable to put the robotics team forward for recognition. (Although if the school doesn't award letters for debate, speech, band, or other non-sports competition, I wouldn't get too worked up about robotics being left out.) People like recognition, and there is no reason I can see to leave robotics out.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Hierarchy: We generally are divided into President and VP. These two people handle the everyday stuff of robotics.

As for the sub-teams. We generally have people who are specialized in one particular area and veterans who are specialized in one area generally take charge of the sub-team.

As far as inspiration goes, I believe that people on my team respond well to responsibility. If you give them a BS job, they'll recognize it's BS and not do the job well and often goof off. But if you give them true work and responsibility, members generally respond really well and they often end up performing the job better because they feel that they are directly working on something that matters.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Our team has a fairly simple structure that works pretty well for us. Obviously you can't necessarily copy and paste it, but I imagine it is a good model to adapt. Works for us at least.

Heading the team is the Ultimate Force of the Universe, our mentor Mr. Wittman. He invests a ton of his time and energy into the team, and does everything from helping to line up demos to managing finances to mentoring. If we had to say someone "in charge" of the team, it'd be him, but our head mentor doesn't micromanage excessivly or anything.

We have a Team Captain and Assistant Captain, they also lead the team's meetings to decide the general robot design.

Our team works with a sub-team system we call CDTs (Component Design Teams). Students head one team each (Electrical, Chassis / Drivetrain, Manipulator, Controls, Programming, Strategy, Awards, Finances, etc.). This gives students a chance to direct, make mistakes, collaborate, etc. Assistant CDT Captain positions are given to students under the grade level of the captain of that particular CDT to learn effective leadership skills from them. The CDT Captains, in addition to leading the members of the design team, work with each other and the student team captains in order to make sure all of the robot will fit together.

Students can join as many CDTs as they feel that they can assist with, but most join about 2 or 3. By joining you're expected to be committed to what you sign up for, though more lenience is given to rookie members as they try and find their passion.

Mentors help along the way, joining CDTs like students and working together.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

When people mention changing the culture, this is one thing I'd like to change.

I know this isn't the topic at hand. I promise to give a more thread topic focused post this weekend.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Would anyone mind giving us some feedback on the following structure?



Thanks in advance!

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

That's not a bad structure to start with. I do have a couple of questions, though.

1) Why is "Media" under "Software"? It might make more sense to have it under "External Affairs", along with stuff like the public relations group.

2) I'm not sure that having the Strategy group led by the captain is going to work. I'm not saying it won't, but strategy is probably the most important thing in the team. It may need a dedicated leader on its own account--especially when you're scouting other teams at the competition. If the captain is busy separating the mechanicals, electricals, and programmers due to somebody making a mistake, he's not going to have time for the strategy/scouting.

3) Who would be the C.E.O? Mentors, students, parents?

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

It just seems like there are too many officers/leaders. If your team is 15-25 people, do you need 7 of them to be in charge? That just seems like a bit much.

With that being said, I am going to discuss how 1766 used to work when I was a student there. I honestly don't know if they do things this way anymore. Odds are they don't, but here you go.

When I was a student on the team, I was the organizer(just one of my jobs). This job required that I keep track of progress in all parts of the team. I told the machinists how long they had to get the parts done, I watched the welders finish their work, the electrical knew when they would get the bot for work. Though, I didn't just tell people what I needed them to do. They told me what they needed me to do. I made sure materials was ordered, I recruited temporary help when needed, and I kept track of who screwed up and who did well.

Having 1 person keep track of the team is a very good way to organize a team given a few things.

1. The team isn't massive.
2. The person taking the position, must have time to see everyone work.
3. The person must be able to detach themselves from the workers.(You can't do favors for friends. If I give more time to my buddy in electronics, I take time from the welders...machinists...programmers...and everyone else.)
4. The person must be respected(not necessarily liked) otherwise nobody will keep to your deadlines.

If all these specifications are met, this organization plan is very effective. It can be used as the sole means of leading or can be used along with another. I just strongly suggest having an overseer of some form. Even if this person does nothing but watch everyone else, they will get plenty of experience and learn lots. Not many traits are useful in as many fields as a supervisor.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

1) By media I meant Multimedia, which will be responsible for the robot's 3D design, the 3D clip and all necessary things pertaining graphics. Thinking of it, it could be named Graphics instead.

2) Good point, I'm gonna refer to it in the end of the post as both you and Molten brought it up.

3) We only have two mentors, and they don't have any official assignment in our structure. That said, the CEO is going to be one of the students, much like all other positions in the given structure.

Regarding the team's leadership. It is to be divided into three ranks - C.E.O, Officers and Leaders.

Leaders are at the bottom of the leadership ladder, and their job is to simply be the one to give the last call if the need arises, and report of the situation to their Officers. That said, being a Leader only means that the person has the last say in that particular team, and that he should report his progress on to his superiors. Perhaps the title may be interpreted incorrectly, and is thus subject to change, as Leaders aren't practically in a leadership position. :p

Officers, however, are in charge of things. There are only few officers (ranging from 2 to 4). The officer is to manage a whole division, coordinating between its sub-teams and making sure that everything goes as planned. In order to do that, they receive casual reports from their sub-divisional Leaders, and act accordingly.

The C.E.O's position is pretty much a given - he's to oversee and supervise it all.

When the need arises to perform an administrative meeting, only the following are invited to participate for the sake of organization:

- C.E.O.
- All Officers
- Leaders who are currently needed at the meeting. Sometimes, no Leaders will be called upon for the meeting.


Now, regarding the Captain's duty. I agree, the Captain does have way too much on his back to handle it all in a decent manner. Thus, as both of you very well suggested, I'm thinking of separating his duty by creating another role - an Executive.

The Executive will be the practical overseer and ensure that the link between all divisions is stable and clear. He will be the one to coordinate between the divisions when the need arises, and thus, will be considered an Officer.

The Captain, on the other hand, will only be in charge of the Strategy team, but will also have a say regarding Internal matters.

Again, thank you all for the input. I would highly appreciate it if you continue posting your feedback as so far it's been very helpful.

Thanks,
Assaf

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

The robot's 3D design (you mean CAD right?) is usually a separate team, I consider them more important than the graphics and animation team any day. We try to have 1 or 2 CAD kids/adults work with the mechanical subgroups and then the larger CAD team puts together the entire robot. Nothing wrong with pooling the CAD kids into graphics, just pointing out that what they do might be a little more significant to the team (just in my opinion).

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Assaf,

I think your ideas for team mangment are not really meant for small teams, of 15-25 as you say.

The whole point of having this mangement system with multiple of levels is in order to have an overall look at the whole project, usually when you have thousands of workers, there are a lot of individual projects in work, that in the end will be integrated into a final complete design containing parts of each project. Your project is only 25 people. I say that it is enough that you have all the sub-team leaders to manage their own sub-team and to be able to coordinate with thier other division's sub-team leaders and to formulate a combined report to the CEO.

Having the officers, those who collect the information from the leaders, who in turn, by their own expirence with the sub-team and their own thoughts, give a summerized report to the officers, in the end, the officers won't have much work to do except collect the data from each sub-team and to give the CEO an overall of the progress of the division. In the end, there won't be much overseeing and mangment by the CEO. The CEO turns to be the president of the team - the one who gets the summed info, if he wants, gets more detailed information, sets certain orders as he sees and in the end, uses that information to publicize the team's action.

Now, I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but you should conisder, again, the amount of students you will have in the team, how many hands will you need working on each subject/sub-team and can you afford to have people that just look at people doing stuff (and where's the fun in that? Get them involved. Assign certain members of a sub-team, [maybe certain leaders] to have the roles of an officer/overseer).

Be sure to remember this while you're giving out roles:

Most of the students in the team are there to be involved in the doings, to have a part in the final design.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

By having both a captain and a CEO, you've effectively created two different leaders to do the same thing. Nir has a good point about the CEO's role; have only one person (whether student or mentor doesn't really matter to me) be the one to generally direct things.

I'm going to use an example here: My Aero Design team.

Size: ~ 20
Divided into 4 groups, each having one officer. Any team member can participate in any group, but each officer oversees one area.

The areas, in order of when they get the most team members, are:

Operations
Design
Manufacturing
Flight

Each has its own officer, as noted before. As most of the members tend to slide from one group to another, there is supposed to be a committee overseeing each department; the leader of that area is the head of the committee.

Now, there isn't an obvious team captain in the above structure; in fact, whoever leads Operations is the captain, and all the others work with him/her. But, if something in one of the departments needs doing very soon (say, we're trying to finish the planes with about a week left), that department gets a bit more authority.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

On 1710, we use a system under a CEO.

Our system starts at the CEO. Under the CEO there is 5 other leaders. These are the CFO, CIO, COO, PRO (Public Relations Officer), and the Awards Coordinator. Under each of those leaders there are several sub groups. For example under CFO there is fundraising and sponsorships. I can post a list later of all the sub groups. In these sub groups there is a leader and then usually 1 or 2 other members. Each team member that is not a leader is usually in 2 or 3 sub groups.

As far as motivation goes, on each member’s application to be on the team, they mark their top three choices for sub groups that all year, for example fundraising. Then they also mark their top three for build season, for example mechanical. The leaders then get together and put everyone where they need to go. A majority of the time, everyone gets put into their first choice and if not, it is usually the second choice. It is rare you get someone who doesn't get put into their top two choices. This helps with motivation because the team member chose where they wanted to go.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

First off, I'd like to continue and thank you all for your highly appreciated input. Thanks!


Now, I've raised all the issues mentioned here at our meeting today, which discussed our new hierarchal structure. The structure presented (by me, thanks to all of you) has been open-handedly accepted by all team members. However, this year being our rookie one and all that, the thing that did not go as smoothly was how to incorporate next year's younger students (reminder: this year, it has been only us, 11th grade working on the project).

The team pretty much split into two different sides, each with its own rightful agenda:

- The ones who put the team before themselves. They think that in order to create a stable, continuous team, we, as its makers, have to sacrifice our roles for the greater good of the team. According to them, this can be accomplished by giving the younger students at question a direct experience of how things run. To do that, they propose that we, as the experienced fellas, should step down from our duties and pass it on to the younger students at question. Each of us won't have any practical duty, but instead, will supervise and "mentor" the younger student, who will be doing all the practical work and making the decisions.

Pro:
Allows for the team to run in a continuous manner, even after we are gone, as those who are subject to run the team next year(s) will be prepared thanks to the direct experience they are given.

Con:
Does not allow the team to reach its "maximum", as experienced personnel won't be in a decision-making position, but will only be considered as "advisers".

- The ones who put themselves before the team. They think that in order to achieve the maximum out of the team (competitively), the experienced fellas (us) should retain their positions, simply because we are more experienced. In order for the team to run after we are gone, they suggest that the younger students will earn their experience in an indirect manner. The younger students at hand will be hierarchically under the experienced ones, and won't have the final say in any decision whatsoever.

Now, the way I see it, our team is going to go through hard times with this decision as we're pretty much split. This question will affect both ours and the team's future in an irreversible manner.

On the one hand, sacrificing ourselves for the team is the appropriate thing to do as we would like to have our creation exist even after we're gone.
On the other hand, we would all like to squeeze the maximum out of our team and achieve even better awards and recognition next year. However, doing so will hurt the team once we are gone, as there would be no one experienced enough to actually do anything.

Eventually, all teams, organizations, institutes and even states reach the same situation we're currently in - aspiration conflict. One side aspires to achieve this, and the other aspires to achieve that. The real question at hand is how to settle things between the two, and that's where I'm currently clueless.

Gah... we're all so frustrated over this. Hope someone could help out with some insight or better yet, previous experience in this sort of thing.

Thanks in advance,
Assaf

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Let me tell you about my senior year:

I was the only draftsmen on 1766 and the head engineer. It was clear, if I just left the team then there was going to be a struggle the following year. I didn't want this and as part of leaving my mark on history, I found an apprentice. She was an extremely hard worker and had lots of natural skill. I might have been a bit short with her at times, but she respected me and appreciated the chance to learn. I did everything I normally would, she did a few things without me. But everything I did do, she was there. She became one of the best draftsmen our team has seen, took over my role in its entirety and even does a little extra. Our team accomplished more that year because of this choice, then we would have otherwise. Needless to say, they did not need me the following year at all. I came back a few times, helped out on a few minor things, but she had everything under control.

Now, I tell you this story to allow you to see a bit of a compromise. Perhaps you could partner each new person with an old person. Try to match personalities, dedication, and possible skills as much as possible. If you do the apprentice thing the team will not suffer the following year, it will flourish. Also, having a student follow you around isn't really a hindrance. If they ask a question you don't have time to answer(like build season) make a note and return to it after build season.

I know, I'm probably overly optimistic of this idea because the one time I've seen it used, it was a complete success. Anyone care to state any downsides to this system?

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Assaf, I am really glad that your team is able to see the importance in teaching your future team. Many overlook this goal.

As Molten suggested, don't just take a step back and be advisors to the new kids. Have them work alongside you. Show them every single thing that you're doing and that your mentors are doing. Let them take a crack at the simple things. When they see you doing something that is beyond them, THAT is what motivates them to work harder next year.

The best thing you can do is also run training sessions during the summer and during the months before build season. Teach the kids the knowledge they need to keep up with you during build. That way you won't feel like your team isn't reaching its max potential and you can also get the new kids involved at the same level you are at. Definitly try the "apprentice" system. It is what creates a steady rate of success and growth in the best teams.

Hope this helps.
-Akash

P.S.- Congrats on a very exciting rookie season! I started following your team after I saw you were finalists at Technion and I was thoroughly impressed in Atlanta at how well you kept up with the "big boy" teams.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

The apprentice system seems to work for us. During the Lunacy season, team 1318 was comprised of the following:

31 students, of which
15 were seniors
3 were juniors
13 were sophomores, and
0 freshmen (Issaquah SD has a separate 9th grade campus)

This year especially, we were going to lose alot of experience and talent. To minimize the effects of brain drain and to help the team flourish going forward, a goal had been set such that all tasks, no matter how major or minor, were assigned as an "experienced person paired with a less-experienced person". We've found that by going this route, tribal knowledge can be effectively handed down.

When the season ended, elections were held, and the new officers began to take on their future roles.

It's always exciting to see the next generation of leaders step up to the challenge.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Haha, wow. Such an excellent feedback within so little time. Big thank-you to all three of you, this input has been extremely appreciated.

I've suggested the apprentice system as a compromise, presenting its varied aspects and how they deal with each side's aspiration for the new recruits' involvement.

This seems promising, and will more than likely sort out the differences and prevent us from having to deal with this in the future.

Thank you all so much. :)

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

I'm going to grab another example from personal experience...

My Boy Scout troop had a system where each Senior Patrol Leader and Patrol Leader were elected by the whole troop and their patrols, respectively, then chose their own assistants. A few years ago, the system changed (the SPL was away for quite a while, and the ASPL, his assistant, had to lead the troop with no experience). Now, the ASPL is elected, while the SPL is the previous ASPL. The patrols still elect their patrol leaders, who choose their assistants.

You really want the leaders to be passing on their skills to the younger members, not by advising, but by grabbing a few younger members and saying, "Come, I will show you how to do this so that you can show the ones who will follow you." As the new members get better, the older members can lead them farther, and start to be more advisors than doers.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

I hope this answers the original question of the thread...

Attached is our team's proposed hierarchy for next year. This year we had about 20-25 students, next year we are hoping for 25-35. This structure is flexible enough to accommodate either number of students, as people can be involved in more than one area, and are encouraged to do so.

The groups marked with a * are simply a responsibility and don't have to have people working on them year round.
The arrow between Design and Game Strategy is there to show that these groups will be working very closely at the beginning of the year in deciding the functions of our robot.

Some might wonder why Programming is under Strategy. Our reasoning for this is that the programmers need to work closely with the Drive Team to design the OI, and they must be well aware of the strategy in order to effectively program our robot (one example would be autonomous this year...our programmers had out countless field diagrams and rule books trying to decide the best route).

We are also changing the naming scheme of the 'teams'. For instance, Build Team is no longer Build Team, but Build Group. This is because we felt that people were losing the view of the larger picture (our Team as a whole), and were too focused on their particular role (for instance, Mechanical).
Their will be a leader for Build, Strategy, Safety (the Safety Captain), Public Relations and Animation (if we get enough students interested), as well as some sub-group leaders (ie. for Mechanical, Documentation, Scouting, Promotion, and Team Spirit).

I hope this might give some of you some ideas for your team structure and, as always, I am open to suggestions on how to improve this hierarchy and any questions you might have.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Team 1675 implemented an apprentice system that ended up working very well. In the teams second year we had to rebuild the team because most of the members graduated. At that time a freshman on our team started to learn about welding. The third year we had a mentor, who was a tool and die maker that took the student and taught him how to weld. The fourth year the student was good enough at welding to help teach workshops on how to weld to incoming students with the mentors' guidance. That year a freshman became interested in welding. The students’ final year on our team, he was able to mentor the younger, interested student with only some help from the adult mentor.

This is just one example but we used this system quite a bit on our team. It doesn't mean the seniors have to step down and step back, it just means that they have to become teachers as well. Doing that will also help you transition from a student to a college mentor smoothly.

Personally, going into my final year on the team, I looked at what I had done with the team, and what would happen if I left without any transition, and was terrified that the Team, the younger students, my partners in crime, would have a really hard time next year. So I stepped back, so they could step forward, and have their turn.

Team 1675 is a smaller team, and our break down turned into having Co-Captains (one in charge of the mechanical side of the team and the other in charge of the rest) and Heads that were responsible for Build, Design, Programming, and Logistics. Our team was fully student run and in 2007-2009 the system worked well. Students could over lap areas and do other things but the main goal of this system was to help with communication and make sure everything was getting done properly.

I hope this helps.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

That is actually a very sensible hierarchy. Some of the things can be done once and revisited once or twice a year, as noted, while others take more time. I like how the mentors and school liaison tie in without being completely separate, and it's in a professional format.

Re: Your Team's Hierarchal Structure & Methods of Organization
 

Our team doesn't really have one student that is the overall captain, we have a committee structure that works very well for us. Each committee has a chairperson and when we have meetings we split into our groups after a general meeting. Occasionally, we have meetings for only our committee heads and mentors (sometimes not even mentors) to make decisions for our team. Committee heads are also encouraged to run their own meetings in school, at the library or where ever it need be. Our team coach picks who is in charge of what and then we take charge of our little piece while communicating with the other committee chairs. Each chair is pretty much equal power. However, we have a large team, (over 50 members!) so we can delegate more.

Robotics doesn't really end for our team so we have what we call Year- Round Committees, Build Season Committees and Competition Structure.

Year-Round committees are like Web Dev, Digital Animation, Media etc. things that can always be worked on.

Build Season Committees are kind of obvious like Robot Design, Programming and Award Submissions.

Competition Structure is split into Technical (Pit Crew, Programmers, Drive Team) and Non-Technical (Scouting and Spirit).

Sorry about the long boring post! But if you would like specifics (yes, this is very general) PM me and I'll be glad to let you know more!