Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

(These are my own opinions, not of my team's)

I know that whole "everyone's a winner" attitude in FIRST, but does anyone consider the participation medals for FRC (not FLL or maybe even FTC) as something of a "pity" medal in the loose sense of the word?

It may just be me and my little cynical outlook but I really just found out about participation medals this year, but before that its not like I thought of myself as a "loser" on a "losing team." I was taught by mentors who I love and experienced anything worth experiencing each of the years we didn't win anything and didn't receive a medal or recognition. I never felt anything when an opposing team's members received big shiny medallions and I walked away with what I wanted, my own sense of accomplishment. *

Is it just me coming from a veteran team who has a decent past? Or would I feel the same if I was from a brand new team or an old veteran with no interesting history, awards, medals, honors, recognition, wins, etc..? I honestly believe anyone who knows why they are in FIRST would choose the latter of the two.** Then again, have I not been in FIRST long enough to understand what it really means to be a part of it?

Basically, I guess what I'm trying to say is, if "you're all winners" is a fundamental ideal of FIRST, do kids (at the high school level) really need a symbolic reference to their experiences on a team, in the shape of a medal that is?

*One of my most precious moments from this year and probably for the rest of my life had nothing to do with my own team, it was hearing via webcast that a team I spent most of my time helping won the Chairman's Award at the Sacramento Regional. 1323, much love;)

**(And I do not say this and mean that medals for winners/finalists/chairman's winners would not be needed either, because after all, this IS A COMPETITION)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I got curious and decided to post a poll on the subject of pins and medals. It is located at http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77904

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I don't fully buy into the 'we're all winners' concept. That is a broad statement that doesn't really say much. How did we become all winners? What did we do to become winners? Pay an expensive registration fee and participate in a robotic competition? Teams work for their achievements and earn those achievements and successes by the sweat of their brow, the strength of the efforts and the decisions they make each season. They test themselves against the framework that is the makeup of their team. They test themselves against time. They test themselves against the depth of partnerships they have developed with sponsors and with technical and non-technical mentors. They test themselves against the organizational development they have spent time on before and during the season. As teams move toward the competition season, that framework is the base on which their participation in the robotic competition lies and it portrays how robust the team is.

If teams make it through to competition, they have begun to achieve their goals. That is when they have earned the participation medallion and can proudly display it. If the participation medallions disappear and pins replace them, in keeping with their intention and significance - it's ok. Going the distance is cause for celebration and a medal or pin reflects that.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I'd like to echo Madison's comments that the medals aren't meant for her, but for the students.

While there are many people here on CD who have participated in many FRC seasons, for most of the students on my teams, two years is pretty standard, three is quite unusual (maybe six students over six years), and next year... for the first time ever, we'll have two students in their fourth year on the team.

I don't think too many students, at least on my team, are building up such massive collections of FRC medallions that they begin to lose meaning.

Jason

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I think replacing the bronze medals with pins is a good idea and it will be embraced by most teams and individuals if it is the decision that FIRST makes. Logistically, it makes more sense- pins are smaller, weigh less, use fewer materials, easier to ship, cost less, etc. In terms of having a memory from the season, pins are also a great idea- it's cool to have a memento of each game and season that varies from year to year instead of the same medal each year. Pins are fun to collect and easier to wear and store than medals. Since the bronze medal at the end of your regional event isn't the reason why people are involved in the program, I don't think most people would have a problem making the adjustment to pins instead of medals.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

One of my favorite sayings is "Losers are those that don't try". That said, if you try then you can't lose. If you can't lose then you must win.

Everything that you mentioned in your post about work and effort is what causes us to be winners. These students are expanding their knowledge, experience and team work. This would not happen otherwise. When they enter "the real world" the skill sets that they are working for and learning puts them ahead of others. Learned FIRST skill sets and bright students are a winning combination. What else can be said?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I've had the pleasure of being involved in FRC as a student from 1998-2000, and as a mentor from 2003-present.

By my count, that's over 20 bronze participation medals I've amassed over the years.

I have no idea where a single one is right now.

Conversely, the Gold and two Silver medals from the 2009 FLR, GTR and Curie division are proudly displayed on the bookshelf behind me... right beside the 2006 GTR WFFA. They will continue to be proudly displayed there as long as I live.

Everytime I picked up one of the bronze medals, whether as a student or a mentor, I rolled my eyes and smirked a bit. Call me a poor sport in that regard, even a bad example - but at least I'm being honest. I felt there was something inherently tasteless in giving out what is a very nice medal just for showing up. The fact that this medal was much nicer than some medals I've gotten for actually WINNING something made it feel even worse, even going as far to say it almost felt condescending.

In retrospect, I feel bad that I have placed such little value on such a physically nice piece of hardware - but it's true. I've treated them as if they were almost worthless. I probably shouldn't have, but I did.

Of course, this is just a single anecdotal account from a particular student turned mentor experience, but since Bill asked for our opinions, here's mine: I for one wouldn't bat an eyelash if these medals were to disappear next year.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Maybe instead of actual medal, they make the partisipation medalions out of a heavy plastic?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Personally, I would much rather see nice pins than plastic medallions.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

My main concern is that a pin will not recognize any sort of achievement. The 2007 FTC pin just kind of said "quad quandry" on it. The medal for FTC 2006 symbolized that I got through the program, and I'm personally as proud of it as the silver winning alliance medal and the FRC medals I have... the FTC 2007 pin is just kinda... "meh". You can't show that to anyone or really be proud of a 1 x 2 centimeter piece of metal.

I guess it's just nice to have a symbol for the feelings I'd already have about that season.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Here's a crazy compromise suggestion: Instead of medals or pins (neither or which you will probably not wear a whole lot) what if FIRST gave out safety glasses or some sort of mini-tool as awards for participation (e.g. at Wayne state district everyone got a participation screwdriver from the college). Chances are the tools-awards would be significantly cheaper than the medals and more frequently used than either the medals or the pins. Plus, if FIRST gave out a different tool every year then the "awards" would be less redundant and hopefully wouldn't just pile up and be forgotten. Additionally, the tools might almost end up conveying the idea: great job for making it through, here. Keep up the good work and let's see you do even better next year! The recipients can would then hopefully make use of their "awards" and by doing so keep the significance and the memories associated with the "award" always in their minds. Not to mention that the extras are still usable for team workshops and such. I admit the idea has flaws, but it seemed kind of, sort of, maybe plausible. Any thoughts?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

A problem I see with this is that not every student who is involved with FIRST works on the robot/works with tools. Some students on teams may never pick up a tool during their career. Remember, there are many facets of robotics that draw students in. Animation, writing of the Chairman's Report and Woodie Flowers Report, film crew, other documentation, programming, outreach, fundraising, etc. Therefore, it stands to reason that not everyone would be able to use the tools as much as one might think. The same could be said for medals (i.e. not everyone finds them as meaningful as others) but I think this is especially true for the tool idea. Although safety glasses could be a good compromise, as everyone uses those eventually.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Fair point, I really hadn't considered that. The main focus of the idea is adding practicality to the participation awards so they can be viewed as something special to the new people and something useful/practical/not-junk to the long-time veterans. Hmm...

Maybe custom made T-shirts for each years game. Bigger than pins and a tad more versatile (though also probably more expensive). I'm really just tossing out ideas.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I just asked my mentor today where our medallions are from our years....he said to check the back closet, there's a bunch of boxes of them.

Not getting these medals never made my season any less special. So why would getting pins instead of a medal make a difference for other kids in FRC? I guess I'm still trying to grasp the significance of something material.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

They used to, I think. Oh, wait, they still do. Volunteer to get one...

They also used to do Championship T-shirts.