From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I'm subscribed to FRC director Bill Miller's blog, and had a new post pop up today over lunch that seemed worthy of spotlighting for those who don't read his blog as often. Relevant bits pasted below:

Assuming that FIRST executed it correctly, this seems to me like an idea that might hold water. I've amassed seven bronze medals over the years (three with 1293, three with 1618, one with 2815), and they tend to sit for a long time in the place where I hang them after they come off my neck that Saturday evening. It won't please the "But everyone's a winner for competing" crowd, but I think the practicality of it might win out (especially for us long-suffering types :rolleyes: ).

Can anyone make an argument in defense of the bronze participation medal?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

The bronze medals make better wind chimes...

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

It'd take a lot more pins for ballast to achieve neutral buoyancy on my ROV...

In all seriousness though, I think I would definitely prefer customized pins. IMO they look cooler than bronze medals, and you can add them to a hat or something and keep a record of the games you've participated in. The only downside I see is that if they're truly a one-to-one swap for the bronze medals, the teams that win silver and gold at their first regional will miss out on cool pins...

I'm with Billfred, my bronze medals just hang around and clank when something touches them. They're nice to complete the timeline, but they're big and heavy for that purpose alone.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I like the idea. Hopefully it also permits them to give out MORE PER TEAM so large teams can get enough for all members.

Here's hoping they get ambitious and create pins with logos from games past. Maybe they could sell them via Logoloc....

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I would really enjoy some spiffy pins, but I agree with Evan in that it would kinda stink to not recieve one. The thing with a bronze medal is that a silver or gold medal is a direct upgrade. These pins are more shiny stuff that I would like to have.

It might be a little selfish, but I really want more pins to put on my hat/jacket. Hopefully they will be cheap enough to give a bunch to every team.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Right now, if a student participates for only one season, and their team does not "place" at an event, then he/she still gets to walk away with a medal...

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I remember that Logo Loc offered a FIRST Frenzy patch in 2004. I also remember that they were still trying to clear out the same FIRST Frenzy patch a couple of seasons later in Atlanta.

Gauging demand aside, though, I could co-sign that idea.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

The only problem with that is they would probably end up selling the future/present game pins and then they wouldn't be as special.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Some thoughts:

1) FIRST already allows teams to purchase extra medallions, trophies, and banners.
2) There are tens of thousands of bronze medallions around the world already--just from the 2009 season. While the specialness of some items gets watered down in quantity (consider that teams can order a blue banner for any or no achievement), I don't think this really applies to participation medals.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

It is nice to be able to give members of the team a medal that haven't been able to travel to the event. Usually on a day shortly following a regional, students wear their team shirt and their medals to school. It is also nice to give one to a sponsor or supporter.

I love the idea of the pins and those could become treasured as well, especially if they are game specific like the Lunacy pin I received. That was just cool.

Downside, I could see people giving away the pins more readily than they do the participation medals or losing them and then regretting that as time passes.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I think that a custom participation pin for each year would be a lot cooler. While I haven't been around that long in FIRST (only been in for one season), I've collected participation "stuff" from a lot of other various extra-curriculars, and the standard ribbons and medals just aren't as neat as it could be. And while I know that winning isn't everything, it's often felt like a sort of compensatory prize more than anything, especially since the one's I've gotten in the past have all been a standard item of some kind with the competition's logo, the year, and something along the lines of "participant" written on it with no other differentiation from year to year. The medals here strike me as something similar. However, with a custom pin for each competition, even if you're not getting a medal for winning something, you are coming out with a neat piece of memorabilia that you can more easily get away with wearing to school on a regular basis, and it isn't the same exact thing year after year after year....

Man, this is harder explaining my thoughts than I thought....

I suppose the main points I'm trying to make are:
1)participation medals don't seem like that much of an award to me. a hunk of medal on a ribbon that's the same every year doesn't convey the same nostalgia and such that pictures, video, collected pins, traded contact info, etc. can after it's over
2)for that matter, I don't feel the medals for the Chairman's or champion do either, especially if you're on a team that wins multiple regionals every year and in consecutive years (wouldn't know, haven't even had the chance yet). they do, however, come off as feeling a bit more "special," if only because there's often a lot more hard work put into these awards than into just getting there in the first place.
3)in the long run, I'd rather have something that I can get away with wearing in public, or in later competitions, without getting looked at like I'm heavily ego-driven. medals don't do that. banners yes, simply because you can hang them in your pit, and they act more as a team accomplishment in that setting, but running around a competition with a past competition's medal seems a little "in your face" to me. I'm not sure if a few from a team or all of a team doing this would be worse, though, considering my statement about the banners...
4)the medals don't really show which games you've done. there's really not much to differentiate at all between the medals, looking at the various medals that have been given out over the years. except for a small aesthetic change on occasion, they're pretty much identical from year to year
5)since buttons are easy to make, and since there'd be a new one for each game each year, you could easily get the entire FIRST community involved. individual players, or, to cut back on entries, teams, could submit designs during build season, similar to what's been done with the state quarters. then whoever's in charge of the endeavor could sort through them and choose the one they feel best suits the competition that year.

In my opinion, I'd rather have the buttons. They're not gonna get the same condescending looks that a medal is in public, and I'd think that a button for each game would be really neat for nostalgia, as well as tracking which games you've done over the years.


Sorry if this is a little long winded. I'm not often the one who wins competitions, and with some of the things I've done over the years I've felt a little shortchanged in the way they treated the winners versus the rest of us, so I'm a tad opinionated on such a subject as this.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I only found out this year that there are participation medals....:ahh:

Don't teams pay for these medals anyway?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I think it depends. Long time participant & mentors probably don't care much about the medals. I know my stack has been responsible for pulling more than one poorly placed hanging mount out of the wall! :o

Personally, I'd love to have a pin from each game I played to go with my programs & other FIRST mementos.

But, if I went back to my honeymoon phase with FIRST (you know, before it became an addiction), I would've much preferred the medal. They just seem much more solid, you know? I think JVN has a very valid point. Getting a medal for the hundreds of hours you put in seems much more significant than a little pin.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I think that the pin idea is a great way to cut costs within the FIRST community because it still awards team members for a good well done even if their team did not "place". However, I think the trophies from this past year should be restored to their old sizes. In general, I believe that their are better ways to cut costs, it seems like transistioning from medallions to pins is such a minute change that it would have little impact on the cost for FIRST (it may save a couple of a million dollars but in the whole grand scheme of things it really isn't that much). In general I feel as though there are "bigger fish to fry". Issues such as field components and KoP components, game rules (i.e. using last year's kit frame) need to be modified if FIRST wants to make a larger impact on the affordability of FIRST. It seems as though FIRST has it's "expensive" years and its "inexpensive" years, between the new control system and the playing field, 2009 was perhaps the most expensive year of all for FRC teams.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I love the medals. Until this year my team hasn't had much success, but no matter how the robot did, or how the awards turned out- every student walked away with a medal. It solidifies the idea that everyone who comes into a FIRST competition has already won.

EDIT: Also, guys- post these opinions on Bill's blog so he can see them too! Our voices should be heard. :)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I have boxes and boxes of FIRST pins stored away, all of my medals are hanging up for everyone who enters my room to see and ask about. I have been more then lucky to be on a "successful" team in my career in FIRST but the idea of everyone getting a chance to hang a medal in their room or door and be able to explain "I was in a contest where I helped build a robot that competed in a competition with students from across the world with some of the largest corporations on the planet sponsoring that has been aired on ESPN and every major news station in the US" is a pretty cool thing to be able to say while showing off a medal, no one outside of FIRST knows the bronze is a participation medal, they see a medal and know that the person who has that was part of something great and they accomplished a task that was deserving of a medal.
Pins would be great for awards of some kind but giving every student who participated in FIRST a medal at the end of the season is one of the reasons why I love FIRST so much, its not a ribbon that is can be made in my basement or a piece of paper that costs 30 cents a copy with fancy letters.

Sorry for the long response but there are other ways to cut costs in FIRST, honoring each and every student, mentor and sponsor who gave so much throughout the season is worth the extra cost in my mind.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Please don't yell at Bill tomorrow Libby! :p

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I really like the idea of the pins. However, I would like to keep the bronze medals for both of the third place teams (the losers of the semi-finals) just to get more medals out there. Make it a real bronze medal, not a participation medal. The bronze medal would then be something to brag about (maybe a little) but in any case, I believe that everyone should get a pin whether they medal or not. :)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

This is my $0.03 darn inflation...

Pins -- I could think of a TON of things we could all do with 19 (19 games...) pins all decorated and put on ... something ... for those who view our robots at demonstrations. Yet I'm pretty sure that everyone who sees a medal from afar simply says 'wow, they win alot' as a first impression.

Heh, maybe I'm just biased because I'm similar to Billfred in that my medals usually sit around collecting dust after a while. The FRC pins though -- those go on my work lanyard, and I'm constantly asked about new ones (2008/2009 mentor/coach pin anyone?). On top of that, any student who has 4 pins in a row has something much more impressive and something that's much easier to talk about than 4 medals that all look alike.

I'm not sure I should even have an opinion on this since we have always won something at our home regionals that give us a 'placement' medal. Yet the guys at work usually look past the medals and ask about the mentor-awarded plaques that the medals are hanging on -- what are those for, what did you do, who's in that picture and most important, WOW that looks like fun.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

In FTC, the participants get pins for their involvment and the only reason I have put them on display is because they go nicely with my FRC participation Medal(s).

I know that pins seem like a new/exciting and might even seem like fun at first, but I really like the medals idea. It gives everyone a chance to be in the 'not' losing spirit if you walk away with a medal around your neck.

Personally, I prefer medals simply because I've recieved both and it's much more fulfilling to walk away with a medal around my neck than a pin in my hand...

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I like the idea of the pins, but I find sometimes the bronze medals rather unnecessary to be given out to every student that goes through FRC. I personally have not collected my bronze medals this year, they've gone to other teammates. You won't find one on my medal rack at home, either. I find them rather taunting, really, as a driver. To me, it says "Hey, thanks for playing, you can have something that thousands of other FIRSTers get too." Pins would be much lower cost, and they would look kind of cool. Sure, the idea is the same, and I probably would only collect one of them a year, to keep track of games I've played. After all, FLL gives out pins to every student that participates in a regional competition.

Personally, I think FIRST could pull this off, and save tons of money. Maybe enough in shipping costs to bring back larger trophies. :rolleyes:

-Nick

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Call me a sucker but I kinda liked the everyone's a winner thing with participation medals. I loved being able to run home with a medal after each FTC tournament I did, because just getting there and functioning is worthy of recognition. I was really disspaointed when I just got a pin in 2008... but then things changed and stuff happened.

Of course this year I never got a bronze medal luckily, but it's still nice.

I'd be more okay with it if they brought back the gigantic trophies though. Picking up the FRC trophy, I think it was smaller than last year's FTC. Not quite as magical. Not that I'm bitter. :P

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

The real question is of the $20 million/year how much of it goes to bronze medals? I think from a cost cutting perspective the at large community is not able to give an informed answer to this due to the lack of budget info.

If the question is do you think buttons will be just as effective at providing positive reinforcement to students as a medal would? I personally would argue no, but that's not the question the stated goal here is cost cutting.

Seems like a guided question without all the info Billfred.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Have to agree with you on this one. There is no practicality in the bronze medals. They are worn for, at most, a day and replacing them would probably save a pretty penny. I also like the idea of displaying your pins at FIRST events. The bronze medals all pretty much look the same and they seem to just blend together as more are collected rather than provide a memory.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I'd go for the following:
1) replace the bronze medals with pins of some kind
2) restore the old trophy sizes
3) eliminate the automatic second trophy per award (Any team that wants it can request it, though--they pay shipping)
4) local suppliers for the trophies and medals, if possible--have them show up Wed. during field setup with trophies boxed, then any leftover trophies get set on to the next event or ATL.

Seems that that could reduce a lot of shipping costs, and some production costs at the same time. Logistics are a little more convoluted, but how many teams actually give the second trophy to a sponsor? (And how many sponsors already have too many?)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Food for thought:

Who has read FIRST's 2008 annual report?
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...8_AR_FINAL.pdf

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Can sponsors have too few trophies displaying their outreach efforts? Some teams cycle through minor sponsors like candy some years while others have one or two major sponsors. Some teams, like mine, are in between. We still don't have a trophy at every one of our sponsors, and we've won a plethora of awards. We make plaques for each sponsor instead, but that doesn't mean we don't want to specifically recognize the help that was given to us by the one sponsor that goes the extra mile. A sponsor helped us win Engineering Inspiration in 2008 with a mentor who reviewed our writing and guided us with presentation, so of course that EI trophy went to that sponsor. We definitely do not want to stop this practice.

On top of that, we are SO CLOSE to having a fuller display cabinet at the school than the football team. All we need is a regional win or a national award coupled with a regional award :ahh: (granted the school has only been around for 6 years, but it has a good football team...).

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Exactly. Many teams already give their sponsors plaques or certificates or yearbooks instead of FRC trophies. Said teams wind up with their trophy space disappearing due to double trophies. So, you ship one trophy to each event. Teams winning an award at the event have the option to order another, either paying for shipping or not paying at all (FIRST gets the cost). Or you say, such-and-such local awards company has the pattern, talk to them and they'll get you the trophy. Now the team can choose to get the second trophy and give it to the sponsor, or not.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Local suppliers leads to inconsistent trophies. The current acrylic trophies are very clean and professional, and part of that I think is the consistency. Other ideas aren't so bad. Especially the trophy sizes thing.

I never knew the second trophy was intended for a primary sponsor... I just figured they thought most organizations would need to have more than one.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I could definitely go for EricH's idea. If a team wants that second trophy then they should have to pay for at least the shipping.

Btw, as Libby said before, it's better to post directly on Bill's blog.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

We're drifting off-topic here, but I'll state that I'm not in favor of eliminating the second trophy.

FIRST's intent is for the team to present this trophy to their primary sponsor. If your sponsor is in attendance at the event in which you win an award, that's a good time to present them with the trophy. It's "instant gratification" for their contribution to your team and the program. Alternatively, the team should arrange a presentation with the sponsor (i.e. invite the sponsor to a team banquet, or ask for an invitation for a tour, etc.). Your sponsor deserves (and will certainly appreciate) the award and recognition!

BTW, the incremental cost to FIRST for shipping these trophies to regionals and Championship is very low: they travel in the trucks along with the field.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

If this was an option I don't think a single team would not request a second trophy. So now you are making teams that are successful have to pay extra because they are successful.


I don't care either way about pins vs metals. My question echos some others wondering how much they spend on these metals anyway? Over the past year or so there seems to be an effort to cut costs, but without knowing how much of an impact or savings these items are giving it seems silly to get all worked up over it.

For example How much do the metals cost to make (probably not the $12 they charge for extra ones)? How much would a custom made pin cost? A new pin would have to be redesigned every year, what does that cost? what tooling is associated with it. And most importantly what is the total being saved?

I honestly think that there are bigger items which FIRST can cut/change which will have a bigger impact on the bottom line. For example is it necessary to have a ~$50k fireworks display at the wrap party (estimate from what I know about fireworks) Why do we need the curtains in the pits in Atlanta when tape on the floor would be just fine, how much does it cost in rentals and manual labor to set them up?

Ultimately for me it comes down to this; saving money is good but unless you are going to pass along the savings to the teams, don't cheapen the student experience. The largest chunk of FIRST's operating budget is from team registration (14.4million) so in my mind customer satisfaction should be their highest priority, I didn't hear people complaining about getting a free metals but I am sure I will if they go away.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Granted this has been my first season (hah hah pun ^_-), but I have mixed feelings. I have a feeling that especially to the rookie teams a medal would appear to be a far greater award than another pin (which quite frankly you have hundreds of by the end of the competition). On the other hand the more medals you get the less interesting they would become. Personally I would stick with the medals as I (and I may be very alone in this) get so many pins that an extra one would probably just end up swept in with the rest and end up in some bag or box while I try to find a better place to put them. At least for now I have so few medals that that isn't likely.

Maybe I'm alone in this aspect too (or I just need to go to a few more competitions), but I never really pay attention to the pins everyone else is wearing. Typically the people wearing pins tend to be wearing so many that it would take you until next kick-off to identify them all or the people are wearing so few that you wouldn't even notice.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

First, I think it's great that FIRST is open to our input on this. There are many organizations out there that really just believe that "They should be happy with whatever they get." I'm sure that is how many of us feel regardless of their decision.

I certainly believe that a small pin, designed along the lines of the chairman's pin, would be fine. From year to year, the only thing that should really need to be updated with the design might be the year and the game name (which isn't even included on any medal). I believe it was mentioned in a prior post that the medals are shipped with the fields, so leave shipping out. If they're only considering the cost of producing the medal then I'm all about having them.

The idea of a pin would really be cool. I think it would be pretty cool to see people wearing their pins back to competitions and getting some extra use out of them. I really don't ever remember any student wearing their medallions after having received them. It might be easier (and much more safe) to sport a pin at a competition rather than a medal.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

A couple of reactions:
1) I think it depends on what type of pin; Bill's posting is the first I heard of this idea, so I'm not sure what FIRST has in mind. A very nice, stamped/die cut metal pin I think could still hold a lot of significance. I hope FIRST doesn't think it can get away with the mass produced plastic pins that the teams give out. This distinction alone I think would help to set them apart.
2) At least for me, it's less about the physical significance than the memories and emotional weight that the medals carry. I have several FIRST participation medals, a regional champion, and a regional finalist medals at home, but to me, the most cherished of all my memorabilia from FIRST is the small pin I was given by Woodie Flowers when I met him in Atlanta last year. I think it's possible for a pin to carry the same weight to you as a medal, and how many people really pass through your room anyway?
3) From the standpoint of FIRST's mission to change a culture, I think the medallions have some significance. If we're trying to say to kids, "Hey, you can be just as successful and win just as much recognition from your peers by being on the robotics team as you can on the football team," there could be a lot of difference between "I got quarter kilo medal," and "I got a lapel pin." (perhaps some exaggeration present)

--Ryan

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I guess how you feel about this is sort of based on the value that you put behind the medallion and what you do with it.

On our team, I take the box of medallions and squirrel them away until our school's end of year awards ceremonies. Then, each student who participated on the team is called up on stage to receive their medallion.

Should we receive a gold or silver medallion, well, I'll happily rethink our plans, but this works great with the bronze medallions. I don't see them as representative of our placing in any one tournament, but rather as representing a YEAR's worth of work... from summer car washes through public presentations to build and finally competition. The kids that are getting a medal have earned it by the time the awards ceremonies roll around.

Yeah, we could do the same thing with a pin, but really... it wouldn't be as impressive or as meaningful. There is some weight and solidity behind a medallion... a symbolisim that just isn't quite matched by a pin.

So count me solidly in the "Medal" camp, even if it means raising an extra $5 per kid relative to a pin, I think they're worth it.

Jason

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I made a comment on the blogspot thread to similar effect, but I don't think it's fair to ask teams to weigh in on this without further explaining why the cost-reduction is necessary and what its impact will be.

There have been a number of changes in the past year that point to reduced costs for FIRST, but teams have yet to see those savings passed on the them; at least, outside of Michigan, perhaps.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Agree totally. FIRST needs to more elaborately explain what the new design would be, along with the real cost savings to teams. Only then can they expect meaningful feedback.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I have to ask, is FIRST trying to save us money or save money themselves? What if the money from sponser is dropping and prices increasing? Is this to save us money or prevent the cost from going up?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

In Billfred's initial post that began this discussion is the quote asking for input about participation medals and pins. In that quote is also an email address that has been provided, FRCteams@usfirst.org. That may be a good place to make further suggestions and present opinions or voice concerns.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Couldn't the savings be no, or reduced, fee incresases year over year?

I'm as cynical and and jaded as they come with organizations and large group decision making with the deaf leading the blind et all, but I can't see how at least reducing the brozne metals they give wouldn't help. Make them optional, make it so only those who didn't win a silver or gold get them, make them smaller, whatever. Even when my team never won an award we found it hilarious FIRST would just give us bronze metals in a box, we probably have enough for a small regional in the back room.

I think the pins are a cooler idea, I'd rather show I was part of xxx Regional 20xx than a giant generic medal. But that's just me. Being jaded. And cynical. And liking pins.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Something I forgot to mention is that the pins would actually be cool and stuff, but not in the way medals are now; they're not a suitable replacement. Being able to have a row of pins on your shirt for all of the games you've been involved in would be really neat. Almost enough that I would be dissapointed in winning to not add to the collection! o_o

However, this is completely different than what a medal does, so I'm mostly saying if it changes, things won't be the same, and people like the same. What an insightful statement.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

That would be fine and, in such a case, I don't think it's too much to expect that FIRST or Bill added, "Savings here will offset escalating costs elsewhere." More detail would be nice, but it's certainly not necessary.

I'm long over receiving the participation medals, but they're not meant for me. My kids think they're pretty cool, though, and are pretty proud to wear them around sometimes. Medals capture the attention of others and they want to know why you've earned them. Pins, while perhaps more interesting to an insular FIRST culture, will not generate the same interest among outsiders. It's a bad change unless the cost saving is tremendously justified elsewhere.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Indeed, some measure of scale would be beneficial. If FIRST paid the price we pay ($12, as I recall from the order form that seems to have been taken offline) for each of those medals, and each of the 1,677 teams that competed received a box of 25, we're into a half-million dollars in medals ignoring the cost of trucking all of those boxes all over the continent (and beyond, in a few cases). That said, I would be shocked if FIRST was paying that (read on).

Now, since I don't know FIRST's medal supplier, we'll have to approximate. A bit of Google work seems to indicate that custom medals of the size (3", by my measurement) and quantity FRC used this year would run anywhere from $2 to $4. Similar Googling suggests that really nice pins in similar quantity come in around $0.75 to $1, depending on the size FIRST settled on.

If FIRST had ordered for 1,700 teams, a $1 drop in unit price would be a $42,500 swing. Total FRC operating expenses for FY08 (according to their financials (PDF link)) were $20,558,122. Cutting $42,500 out of that would be approximately a 0.2% reduction in expenses.

To emphasize, every figure other than the one taken from FIRST's financial statement is an educated guess on my part. Draw from this what you will.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I disagree with this statement. I was lucky enough to start my FIRST career with Team Hammond, and have had the honor of accumulating several medals throughout my time on that team. No matter how many medals I have, each one stands for something different; a different moment in my FIRST career. I could pick up a medal and tell you exactly what event it came from, what year I was on the team, and everything about the game itself. More than that, I could give you the countless memories and stories behind those medals without any hesitation.

I'm now a mentor for Team 1720, who have yet to win a regional or place as finalists. I've seen kids go through the entire program and graduate, without winning that elusive regional. The pins seem like a good idea, until I think about those kids. I would hate to see them go through the entire program and not get some kind of reward for all their hard work. And, while a pin is easier to "show off" than a medal, it cannot replace the accomplishment one feels when he/she has that ribbon wrapped around their neck. I understand that people who have a lot of medals might think the medals are mundane after a while, but to some, medals are fairly rare and give a sense of accomplishment after a hard season.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

(These are my own opinions, not of my team's)

I know that whole "everyone's a winner" attitude in FIRST, but does anyone consider the participation medals for FRC (not FLL or maybe even FTC) as something of a "pity" medal in the loose sense of the word?

It may just be me and my little cynical outlook but I really just found out about participation medals this year, but before that its not like I thought of myself as a "loser" on a "losing team." I was taught by mentors who I love and experienced anything worth experiencing each of the years we didn't win anything and didn't receive a medal or recognition. I never felt anything when an opposing team's members received big shiny medallions and I walked away with what I wanted, my own sense of accomplishment. *

Is it just me coming from a veteran team who has a decent past? Or would I feel the same if I was from a brand new team or an old veteran with no interesting history, awards, medals, honors, recognition, wins, etc..? I honestly believe anyone who knows why they are in FIRST would choose the latter of the two.** Then again, have I not been in FIRST long enough to understand what it really means to be a part of it?

Basically, I guess what I'm trying to say is, if "you're all winners" is a fundamental ideal of FIRST, do kids (at the high school level) really need a symbolic reference to their experiences on a team, in the shape of a medal that is?

*One of my most precious moments from this year and probably for the rest of my life had nothing to do with my own team, it was hearing via webcast that a team I spent most of my time helping won the Chairman's Award at the Sacramento Regional. 1323, much love;)

**(And I do not say this and mean that medals for winners/finalists/chairman's winners would not be needed either, because after all, this IS A COMPETITION)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I got curious and decided to post a poll on the subject of pins and medals. It is located at http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77904

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I don't fully buy into the 'we're all winners' concept. That is a broad statement that doesn't really say much. How did we become all winners? What did we do to become winners? Pay an expensive registration fee and participate in a robotic competition? Teams work for their achievements and earn those achievements and successes by the sweat of their brow, the strength of the efforts and the decisions they make each season. They test themselves against the framework that is the makeup of their team. They test themselves against time. They test themselves against the depth of partnerships they have developed with sponsors and with technical and non-technical mentors. They test themselves against the organizational development they have spent time on before and during the season. As teams move toward the competition season, that framework is the base on which their participation in the robotic competition lies and it portrays how robust the team is.

If teams make it through to competition, they have begun to achieve their goals. That is when they have earned the participation medallion and can proudly display it. If the participation medallions disappear and pins replace them, in keeping with their intention and significance - it's ok. Going the distance is cause for celebration and a medal or pin reflects that.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I'd like to echo Madison's comments that the medals aren't meant for her, but for the students.

While there are many people here on CD who have participated in many FRC seasons, for most of the students on my teams, two years is pretty standard, three is quite unusual (maybe six students over six years), and next year... for the first time ever, we'll have two students in their fourth year on the team.

I don't think too many students, at least on my team, are building up such massive collections of FRC medallions that they begin to lose meaning.

Jason

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I think replacing the bronze medals with pins is a good idea and it will be embraced by most teams and individuals if it is the decision that FIRST makes. Logistically, it makes more sense- pins are smaller, weigh less, use fewer materials, easier to ship, cost less, etc. In terms of having a memory from the season, pins are also a great idea- it's cool to have a memento of each game and season that varies from year to year instead of the same medal each year. Pins are fun to collect and easier to wear and store than medals. Since the bronze medal at the end of your regional event isn't the reason why people are involved in the program, I don't think most people would have a problem making the adjustment to pins instead of medals.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

One of my favorite sayings is "Losers are those that don't try". That said, if you try then you can't lose. If you can't lose then you must win.

Everything that you mentioned in your post about work and effort is what causes us to be winners. These students are expanding their knowledge, experience and team work. This would not happen otherwise. When they enter "the real world" the skill sets that they are working for and learning puts them ahead of others. Learned FIRST skill sets and bright students are a winning combination. What else can be said?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I've had the pleasure of being involved in FRC as a student from 1998-2000, and as a mentor from 2003-present.

By my count, that's over 20 bronze participation medals I've amassed over the years.

I have no idea where a single one is right now.

Conversely, the Gold and two Silver medals from the 2009 FLR, GTR and Curie division are proudly displayed on the bookshelf behind me... right beside the 2006 GTR WFFA. They will continue to be proudly displayed there as long as I live.

Everytime I picked up one of the bronze medals, whether as a student or a mentor, I rolled my eyes and smirked a bit. Call me a poor sport in that regard, even a bad example - but at least I'm being honest. I felt there was something inherently tasteless in giving out what is a very nice medal just for showing up. The fact that this medal was much nicer than some medals I've gotten for actually WINNING something made it feel even worse, even going as far to say it almost felt condescending.

In retrospect, I feel bad that I have placed such little value on such a physically nice piece of hardware - but it's true. I've treated them as if they were almost worthless. I probably shouldn't have, but I did.

Of course, this is just a single anecdotal account from a particular student turned mentor experience, but since Bill asked for our opinions, here's mine: I for one wouldn't bat an eyelash if these medals were to disappear next year.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Maybe instead of actual medal, they make the partisipation medalions out of a heavy plastic?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Personally, I would much rather see nice pins than plastic medallions.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

My main concern is that a pin will not recognize any sort of achievement. The 2007 FTC pin just kind of said "quad quandry" on it. The medal for FTC 2006 symbolized that I got through the program, and I'm personally as proud of it as the silver winning alliance medal and the FRC medals I have... the FTC 2007 pin is just kinda... "meh". You can't show that to anyone or really be proud of a 1 x 2 centimeter piece of metal.

I guess it's just nice to have a symbol for the feelings I'd already have about that season.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Here's a crazy compromise suggestion: Instead of medals or pins (neither or which you will probably not wear a whole lot) what if FIRST gave out safety glasses or some sort of mini-tool as awards for participation (e.g. at Wayne state district everyone got a participation screwdriver from the college). Chances are the tools-awards would be significantly cheaper than the medals and more frequently used than either the medals or the pins. Plus, if FIRST gave out a different tool every year then the "awards" would be less redundant and hopefully wouldn't just pile up and be forgotten. Additionally, the tools might almost end up conveying the idea: great job for making it through, here. Keep up the good work and let's see you do even better next year! The recipients can would then hopefully make use of their "awards" and by doing so keep the significance and the memories associated with the "award" always in their minds. Not to mention that the extras are still usable for team workshops and such. I admit the idea has flaws, but it seemed kind of, sort of, maybe plausible. Any thoughts?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

A problem I see with this is that not every student who is involved with FIRST works on the robot/works with tools. Some students on teams may never pick up a tool during their career. Remember, there are many facets of robotics that draw students in. Animation, writing of the Chairman's Report and Woodie Flowers Report, film crew, other documentation, programming, outreach, fundraising, etc. Therefore, it stands to reason that not everyone would be able to use the tools as much as one might think. The same could be said for medals (i.e. not everyone finds them as meaningful as others) but I think this is especially true for the tool idea. Although safety glasses could be a good compromise, as everyone uses those eventually.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Fair point, I really hadn't considered that. The main focus of the idea is adding practicality to the participation awards so they can be viewed as something special to the new people and something useful/practical/not-junk to the long-time veterans. Hmm...

Maybe custom made T-shirts for each years game. Bigger than pins and a tad more versatile (though also probably more expensive). I'm really just tossing out ideas.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I just asked my mentor today where our medallions are from our years....he said to check the back closet, there's a bunch of boxes of them.

Not getting these medals never made my season any less special. So why would getting pins instead of a medal make a difference for other kids in FRC? I guess I'm still trying to grasp the significance of something material.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

They used to, I think. Oh, wait, they still do. Volunteer to get one...

They also used to do Championship T-shirts.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I like the majority of your ideas - except #3.

We ALWAYS give our trophies to our major sponsor - the one that gives us space for our build, design, field, and kicks in a pretty penny to boot. They have the trophies in their community outreach cases, right in the main isle when you walk in.

Keep the second trophies!

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I would personally like to see a patch instead of a pin.
This could be a really nice patch with the current game logo and lots of color and could be very visually appealing.

This would be accompanied by a inverted arch patch that would be unique for each regional and for CMP... So you could wear the patch, and below it you could show the regional(s) you attended...

This would be great for a blanket or a jacket... and for putting in a scrap book.

There is another reason to switch away from the bronze medallions.
That would be trying to make FIRST more green...the amount of energy in creating and shipping those medals is pretty large so along with money savings we could also save some energy and become that much greener.

In the annual report, it is stated that FIRST awards 50,000 medals a year.
At $5 each in cost that would be $250,000. That is the minimum cost to run an entire regional.....

sorry about the image examples... just things I could find on the web.
although the dog inverted arches might be appropriate...lol

thanks

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

For those that aren't subscribed to the feed, Bill Miller updated the blog today with a bit more detail about the idea.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

There are two real questions here:

1. Should there be a token of recognition for participation in FRC?

and

2. If the answer to #1 is "yes," what form should that recognition take?

Some of the arguments here have been financial, so I thought some facts might help to inform this discussion. The current medals are 2.75" with a custom ribbon. A few minutes spent on Google show that you can buy large lots of medals of this size in gold, silver, or bronze for less than $2 each.

Pricing the pins is a little harder, because they come in lots of different sizes and quality, but if FIRST is trying to save money, let's just assume a mid-range price of $.75 per pin. You can substitute whatever value you like, but high-end enameled pins are about $1.75 and cheaper "soft enamel" pins can be 50 cents or so.

According to the FIRST annual report, they handed out 50,000 FRC medallions last year, for an acquisition cost of $100,000. With our 75 cent price, pins would be $37,500, for an acquisition savings of $62,500.

Also according to FIRST's annual report, they brought in $14.4 million in program registration fees. Their total income was nearly $30 million. FIRST's cash, cash equivalents, and other assets increased by nearly $5 million last year. I cannot imagine that saving $60k on individual recognition to the students in the program is the best possible place to save money.

EDITED: I just found out that I pretty much recapitulated a post from Billfred from a few days ago. Oops.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Hey, I hear paper is cheaper than metal these days!
w0000 for participation certificates in the upcoming years! :rolleyes:
And btw, I am being semi-sarcastic if you haven't picked up on that - I have no knowledge of downgrading the awards to anything other than the pins currently being discussed, but that is how I see it. A downgrade.

But you know that getting a paper certificate is a possible direction this could be headed in given the slow move over the past couple years to implement "cost savings" into the program & more-so into the awards segment of the overall organization.

I'm probably not going to be popular because of this post with some people, & that's just fine with me.
I just needed to give my true response to the situation at hand. :cool:

Stop the downgrading!

$0.02

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

As I transfer over from the 'student side' of FIRST to the 'mentor side', it makes me sad to think that medals might go- I feel badly that my future students won't have that big, shiny, tangible thing that they can show off to their school, their friends, and their teachers, that lets them know that no matter what happened to their team this year, what they did with the FIRST program was important.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

But isn't the entire point that they should already feel that way?

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

It's still nice to have a tangible, symbolic representation of such feelings that you can easily show to people and yourself when need be.

Now I want both. ._.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I whole heartedly agree with the last line of this post. I mean a medal or a pin or a shirt even is just material proof of the accompishments made in FIRST during that season. I can say that I don't even really know where my 2009 FIM District Chairman's Award medal is. But I'm still looking back on the season and smiling at all the fun I've had and can't wait till school starts to get the season underway.

However on the oppostite argument of this. Teams still pay for all of the EXACT same costs so not getting the same things as previous seasons and paying the same amout is rather dishearting I mean do peices of coloured metal cost that much? I mean it's just a medal or rather metal but there are those who need encouragement to continue in FIRST even if their team didn't do as good as anticipated.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Just a note. While you guys personally might not need these medals to have an impacted season, what about the people who do want them? What do you propose for teams like Trobotics, where receiving the "participation medal" is a big deal? That's the main question I ask of the Pin Camp. :D

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Nothing says that you can't a) do the same thing with pins or b) make your own participation awards (medals, trophies, etc).

And you can even just do a certificate emphasizing the student's role on the team. I know one year, 330 gave out a "Most Buttons Collected" award. It went to...

...a younger sibling of some of the team members who didn't have anything to do other than collect buttons. (Note: just one of several that year)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

If people care that much about shiney hunks of metal I hear punched sheet metal works just as well. :p

But really, what Eric said sums it up. Since pins would cost less I'd be all for it.

Wouldn't you rather have saved a very low budget team just enough money because of those pins so they can enter another year as an FRC team, rather than complain about losing participation medals that the team who couldn't participate didn't even have a chance to earn? (If this is incoherent babble, I apologize, its 2am and I've been teaching FLL camps all week).

As a last post, I'm all for the pins because they would cost less to make, eventhough I still stand behind the opinion that material possessions shouldn't be needed to remind someone of a special time in their lives.

P.S- We gave out our box of participation medals at the finale of our FLL camp this week. The top 3 teams of kids got those medals. When we asked the kids on the other 7 teams(ages 11 and under) what they felt about not "winning", ALL of them (yes its not a hyperbole) said that they had a lot of fun and wanted to come back to FLL again. Did they care about not getting those medals? NO. Not significantly enough for them not to have a good time and learn.

..Last post since I don't see an end in the topic.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Wearing participation medals presented lots of opportunities for PR and for portraying a unified effort. For the teams who chose to keep them in a box, in storage, and who didn't mine the potential, that was a decision or oversight made. For the teams that appreciated the purpose of the medals and chose to wear them, display them, and give them as gifts to their supporters - they were mining and exploring the purpose of the participation medals in the FRC program wisely and in good faith.

An opportunity has presented itself to present opinions regarding personal preferences towards receiving and wearing a medal or a pin. Whether we have valued and appreciated the medals or not in the past, it doesn't mean we have to show disrespect towards their intent when discussing them.

Thanks for stating your opinion so well, Libby.

Jane

Edit: It might also be worthwhile to think about the business or businesses that made the medals and ribbons for FRC available and the time crunches/deadlines they faced regarding supply and demand as well as as their costs and the impact this decision will have on them as supporters of the FIRST program.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Billfred and I have both looked into comparative costs, and it's less than $2 per student. The "saving money" argument isn't compelling.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Jane brings up an excellent point. (Bolded for your convenience). Some teams appreciate the intent and proudly display their participation medals. Some teams choose not to use them. That's totally their choice, and there's no 'right' or 'wrong' with it. It's just the team's decision.

Now here's a giant WHAT IF:
(please note: I am not a business major, I'm studying engineering- I do not know what it would cost FIRST to do this, I have not studied the circumstances nearly enough, but it's just an idea, please take it in the spirit it's meant.)

WHAT IF: FIRST gave each team the option, as they were doing their event registration in TIMS, to choose what they wanted. They could then pick their choice (medal or pin) up at their first regional/district event. The team could internally take their vote: OK, kids, which one do you think is cooler? Which one would you value more highly? If the team chooses to display their efforts with a medal, then that's the option they click in TIMS. If they think the medals are bulky and they'd rather have a smaller item, then they click 'pin'. The choice is marked in FIRST's system, and it's sent to their regional.

Yes, FIRST is still ordering medals, but at least they're not ordering so many extras that go to waste. From the looks of the way it's played out on ChiefDelphi and Bill's Blog, FIRST would order roughly half of what they used to (cutting costs for medals in -you guessed it- roughly half!).

EDIT: GaryVoshol corrected me, my math is just plain wrong when you add in fixed production costs.

I volunteered at FIRSTPlace as a summer camp counselor for the past 4 years, and every year there were boxes and boxes of participation medals (silver & gold medals, too) left over, presumably by teams that didn't pick them up. Give the teams a choice, and you've eliminated the over-ordering problem.

Again- I have never seen FIRST's budget beyond the Annual Report that goes out, I have not studied exact costs, but that's my idea for making everyone happy. There are probably a few flaws with it, but like I said- I'm not an expert. I'm just thinking out loud (er...online?).

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

This gives me a great idea! I should start a Pat-yourself-on-the-back club. All we would do is make plaques, medals, and awards for, you guessed it, Ourselves!!!! Then we can be ungracious about it and go around and brag about how we have a medal for Most Steps taken form a single door while eating a hot pocket.

Now that above is really overstated, but, that is essentially what you are saying we should do if we want medals. At KHS, the robotics team gets very little recognition compared to any other sports team, but it always is very nice to see when a bunch of TechnoKats would wear their medals around the school right after a competition because the people around them ask what it's for. The medals in my opinion are a very good marketing item for a team.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Some more food for thought: Why not eliminate winning medals in addition to participation medals? What reasons for eliminating participation medals don't apply to winner medals, and why? (I'm not trying to "trick" people or anything or imply anything, I'm just posing ideas)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

FIRST has already changed the design of the Regional Champion, Finalist, and Chairman's Award medals in addition to shrinking the sizes of certain trophies (the subject of one of Bill's blog entries last year). My conjecture is that FIRST has already "cut costs" with respect to the competition's "winners" and is now looking to extend their savings to other areas of the program (AKA the rest of the participants).

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

That could happen... BUT, don't get me started on how this very thing seems to be happening all over the place, especially in the school system...

...or wherever participation medals/trophies are given out. Just seems like you're giving an award for doing nothing.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

It wouldn't be half the savings, because there are fixed costs associated with production that are there whether you produce 100 medals or 100,000. In addition, there would be additional packing costs as they ensure that each team's individual package was shipped to the correct regional.

For nothing except participating. And presumably gaining something from that participation, or else why would we have FIRST at all? If we had some survey that said 80% of the kids wouldn't participate without a medal, we might be on to something. But I don't think that's the case. The award - whether it be medal, pin or certificate - is to recognize the work that it took to be a team member. If it can also be a visual item to increase awareness of FIRST and the individual teams, all the better. The question then becomes, what is better, medal or pin? Which will be used more, which will be noticed more? (I leave out certificates because no one goes around carrying their certificates, and students don't have cubicle walls to pin them on.)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Gary, I wasn't specifically referring to participation in FIRST. Back when I started as a competitor, we didn't get none of these-here participation medals, and we didn't need 'em, and we liked it that way!

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Just for the record, the weight and cost of the Participation Medals was cut at the same time as the Chairman's and Winner medals.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I have a 1998 participation medal, so I don't think your old man routine is very accurate.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

When I was in high school I couldn't care less about the participation medals. I wanted to win gold medals, not be handed a bronze one for showing up, and like others, I have no idea where mine even are.

I still don't care about the medals, but this brings up other issues that Madison and Stephen alluded to.

If they cut costs by not giving us medals, how does the experience my $6,000 currently buys me improve elsewhere? Are they going to pass the savings on to us? I don't buy the argument that any cost savings are passed on to us in the form of registration fees not being increased. When FIRST is adding $1M every year to their spendable cash assets, they have no reason to be charging us more.

If getting rid of metals saves $100,000 (random number...just tossing that out there) and nothing happens with that $100,000 other than FIRST's cash assets in the FY2010 report increasing, we didn't benefit at all by moving to a cheaper memento.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

This and This.

There should be a benefit to losing the medals. I don't like the idea of getting rid of the medals, but if the money saved will provide a new kind of part for the kit or a more advanced Game/Field, I'd be fine with the loss.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

To be fair, the TechnoKats have had some winning seasons lately. The bronze participation medals are essentially superfluous as marketing when you've got gold or silver to show off.

(We do also get official recognition from the school board, with small medals to go along with the whereas/therefore proclamation of our goodness.)

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

They weren't distributed in 2003 and 2004, that I know about. (admittedly wasn't eligible either year) I don't remember any showing up from 2002, though I can't remember if we were eligible that year. Ditto in 2001, and I'm fairly sure we were then. So either we didn't pick them up and/or I just didn't know about them, or they were not distributed.

Also note that none from those years are in any of our storage cabinets to my knowledge.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

I'm fairly certain they had them from 2001 to 2004. I've only gotten bronze medals as a high school student, and I think I got one all four years.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Perhaps you get to retain your $6000 experience, rather than having a $6100 experience.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

They were given out, they are hanging on my wall right now. I've got a 2001 too.

I'm really torn on this I like the medals but those pins are cool too.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

If FIRST had enough cash to add $1MM to their spendable cash assets this year, I fail to see how they need to cut the medals out of the equation to keep from having to charge us more.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Possibly all of this money they're building up will be for something great? Something huge? Expand the program to more international regions? Have one a really cool field/game like mentioned earlier? Some TV/Radio promotions?

We don't know what the reasoning behind this is, that much has been gathered. But think about what they may be planning with this money that is just sitting there, appearing to be idle.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Just a thought - I work at a large university and at this time, I have been told that my job is not in any danger. That said, there will be none of the small perks that I've grown accustomed to, such as an annual small salary increase. In my office, I've had to review and go over this past year's budget 3 times so far and the projected budget for the next 3 years twice. I will have to look at those projections once again next week before I leave for IRI and will also have to generate a new report for the expenditures this year even though I will be doing that again before August is out. We are monitoring monies very carefully for this year and for the next 3 years. There is not room for expansion or development in my office. At the moment, there is just hoping to remain status quo. I can't speak for the university or other schools, businesses, corporations, programs, or non-profits around the nation, but I know that we are working very hard to be fiscally responsible and to find areas where there may be ways to save money.

Knowing how my job has been impacted this past year, it does not surprise me in any way, that FIRST is looking for ways to continue to provide quality and still continue to offer an exciting program while at the same time, making it very clear that they are looking for ways to save monies. I wouldn't assume anything in any way, shape, or form, about how monies are building up anywhere. I also wouldn't try to second guess them or their reasoning. Finally, I would not try to address anything more than if I like the participation medal, would prefer a participation pin, or like both, equally. That is what has been asked of us as FIRSTers who would like to express an opinion. I did just that in the email address to FIRST that has been provided, several days ago.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

That would be really nice but it seems like some of the supposedly better parts in the kit aren't really that. The gyro and accelerometer we get every year does not work anywhere as close to what we can buy off the shelf. I'd rather have the option to purchase a part I desire rather than have things given to me in the kit. The kit should be a basis and a good place to start - not where I can find everything. That seems like a waste of money.

That said, I prefer the medals being given to all teams. It is a very strong memory and provides us with a sense of accomplishment and achievement - even if the achievement is just building a robot. When I was a student on the team, I worked hard to ensure that our robot and team would win something but that did not always happen. I still save all the medals and the regional booklets FIRST gives us. The pin could also be an excellent memory, but it does not have the impact of a medal, in my opinion at least.

I think there are other ways to save money... if that's really what we are after.

Re: From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals
 

Personally I like the buttons/pins better because I feel like I could actually wear it to school. I always feel like that the medals are too big to actually wear to school.