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Trivial FIRST ...FIRST is not trivial!
Hello. Team 1089 is thinking about creating a version of trivial pursuit with FIRST specific knowledge to sell for a fundraiser. Before finding out the logistics and costs and such of doing so, we were wondering what the interest would be in buying such a game. So would you guys buy this game if we made it or do you guys have any suggestions? Thanks a ton!
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Re: Trivial FIRST ...FIRST is not trivial!
In an honest opinion, as creative as this would be and really cool, I think the overhead cost would exceed profits as I know a couple people who have invested in boardgames before and failed (games that were open to a wider audience.) You would be lucky to break even.
Sorry to sound so negative. Its a very cool idea though. |
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I could see this game becoming a great team building/FIRST learning exercise. I do not know how many people would want to buy the game outside of the FIRST community though. If you end up making the game I would love to buy a copy of it! Good luck with your awesome idea!
~Evan |
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How professional are you aiming to make these? You could feasibly make the game boards, cards, etc. as an ongoing team project or something and have people order them (if you only make games on an order basis then you could potentially save a lot of money in materials and such). They might not end up being professional grade, but you would be able to do it.
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We basically have two ideas going on here.
First we need to figure out if there's even a MARKET for this product. Who would buy it? Teams? Coaches? Teams as gifts for coaches? Individual students who think it's cool? What would you all say a reasonable price to charge would be? What would you be willing to spend on a game like this? Second, we're looking at costs for manufacturing - as in an ACTUAL board game - we don't want to make a low quality product, we want something awesome. We already know that costs are probably going to be high, but we're still investigating. That includes contacting game companies to find out if they'll donate materials/products. Also, I'm a design major, so I'm going to be using my network to find out what kind of custom ordering we can do that's not necessarily GAME standard (like printing each question as boxes of 50+ business cards and having students sort them into the final game boxes). We've also considered doing an "Expansion Pack" for the existing Trivial Pursuit, where people would only have to buy the box of cards and could use any trivial pursuit game board they already have. So now, with all that additional information, let us know if you're interested, why/why not, and what you would like to see us charge for it. Of course, you can also post suggestion questions! :D |
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An expansion pack seems to make more sense, cost-wise. The cards could be low-cost produced (with high donated labor; where might you get that? :rolleyes: ) but you'd still have to figure out the boxes.
One other thing you'd have to investigate, is what kind of legal requirements there might be. I'm not sure if the Trivial Pursuit makers could ask you for a licensing fee for an expansion pack. To me it seems the attractiveness of such a game would be whether it has universal recognition questions or too many local recognition questions. I know a lot about MI teams and some about the acknowledged powerhouses. But I don't know much about teams in GA or MN or NJ, just to pick a few examples. Would I be getting a whole lot of questions wrong? I wouldn't play it very often then. |
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check out CheapA$$ games. They do low cost games by making reasonable boards and then having the users supply the game pieces.
I have to agree with Gary that it might be tough to keep it from being too local. How many sections does trivial pursuit have? 6? Possible topics might include trivia about previous games. Questions about Hall of Fame, National Chairman's, and Woody Flowers. National Champions (best way i can think of keeping it broad). General Robotics category. General STEM category. I would also include a set of cards that would allow for a team specific write in questions so that they could use this as a tool to promote team history. |
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Why not make this computer based. Write code and make it dissimialer enough to Trivial Persuit that you need not pay the marketing fees.
your over head would be time to write the program and make CD's You can gather 8 people around a screen or barrow a projector when you know your going to play the game. |
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In disagreement, I once saw an on-campus group make a monopoly game themed towards the college. It was the most successful fundraiser in the group's history.
I don't know if they have it for TrivPursuit, but it's worth researching. Would I purchase it? Depends on the price point and it's portability. |
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Monopoly could be a really good one. You could have alliances instead of Monopolies. The toughest part would be deciding which teams go where? You could do a new edition each year with the previous years National teams filling out the respective positions. |
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Just a general question: Does FIRST allow advertising at competitions? They would seem like a great time/place to market your game once you get it off the ground.
I really like the monopoly idea as it would open the game to a larger audience. |
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Companies have been sued (or at least sent a cease-and-desist letter) by Monopoly's maker (Parker Brothers?) for using a likeness too close to the Monopoly board. I know my former employer was one of them.
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You can't really buy it in bulk though for any sort of reasonable profit, I think.
I'm pretty sure of all the people I know in various robotics teams (that's about a dozen outside of my team) only one of my friends would buy it and play it on a somewhat regular basis. You'd only get the hardcore FIRSTers... |
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I sorta have to agree with Chris and most of the previous posters, while the monopoly/Trivial Pursuit is a good idea, The profit margin would either be so small that you have to sell a lot of boards to make a profit, or if from scratch, you would have to sell a lot to break even.
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We found a pretty decent way (price wise) of getting game boards a few days ago actually, and cards are easy to get too :) but we're more interested in who's interested in trivial pursuit for FIRST specifically.
While I agree monopoly would be AMAZING, it'd be extremely biased toward team's that we know, which is better at a state/region basis. And picking only certain teams would be hard because it'd be on a partnership or well-known (chairman's winners/national champions) basis. So, in that case, a lot of teams would be missed in some form of a judging process. Which is why i feel its unfair to teams, especially rookies. With that in mind, I feel its better to explain our trivial pursuit in a little more detail: Our plan is to have questions about FIRST in general, and some other categories (there are six total), but MOST IMPORTANTLY, a question about EVERY TEAM out there. And we're willing to do the research on it; we basically are curious of who's interested. And how much you would be willing to spend on it. This will help us to know if we should order bulk supplies with a custom game board or create an expansion deck. So, post below if any of those ideas appeal to you. Thank you :D |
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I would probably be interested in just buying the expansion deck to quiz myself or my team. Maybe divide the teams into regions? I am not sure if I would paid 10 dollars more for a board.
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The categories we are considering are listed below:
Pop Culture: Questions about FIRST teams and the "FIRST culture"; example: What company does Dean Kamen work for? (DEKA) FIRST (in general): Questions about/relating to FIRST; example: What year was FIRST founded in? (1989) FIRST in the Media: All about FIRST gaining recognition by society; example: What national champion team had a guest appearance on the popular Canadian show, Degrassi? (Team 1114: Simbotics) Teams: All about teams (one for each); example: Name the team that hosts and manages the "unofficial FIRST forums." (Team 47: Chief Delphi) Technical :Questions about engineering and programming concepts (aka super-nerd-stuff); example: Robots are programmed through this computer software program. (LabVIEW) Non-Technical: Questions about anything not relating to the robot, including common knowledge, awards criteria, and anything else FIRST related; example: What percentage must your website score to get website excellence? (80%) Does anyone see this as fun for you and your team or anyone in particular that you know (like your coach)? |
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What? No FRC Games Category, with questions like, "What year saw the floor covered in corn?" (1993, Maize Craze)
I do see that that could wind up in "Non-Technical", but I find it hard to believe that the "Technical" Category would have lots of questions. (Also, note that you'll want to specify a year on the example question, and that particular one has at least 2 answers for this year, with C++ being the other--another thing about technical stuff is that there's rarely a single right answer.) I'd probably see it as fun, but only because I know too much... |
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Maize Craze was 1992.
FIRST in the media woud be a really shallow category. That could be replaced with game rules. |
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I can't see a lot of questions in FIRST Media. The 1114 one was pretty well-known by the community, but most media exposures are more obscure. I'd rather see a FRC Games category, including game objects, rules, etc. Also, for team specific questions... What team is -somewhat- famous for having a smoking robot at the 2006 Great Lakes Regional? :ahh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPCTEajtnIw :D We're just cool like that. |
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With response to how much I'd spend...honestly not alot. The last time I had enough people around with nothing to do to play trivial pursuit was a family gathering like 5 years ago.
Also, the idea of having all teams with ? is generous, but thats a ton of ?'s and alot of teams don't really get heard about outside of their area. I'd rather see more questions on teams that are semi-well known. Just a bit of constructive criticism(I hope it was constructive) and good luck with it. |
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I'm going to try to answer all your questions in one massive block of explanation :)
NOTE: what i posted above is what we were thinking about as categories, and before we actually set anything in stone We haven't decided placement of specific things, such as games, but we will DEFINITELY include it somewhere. I don't see it as a separate category, just a large chunk of a different one. The media category expands into public exposure, including questions about FIRST place, and more public things in FIRST. Its probably not going to be "in the media" as much as it sounds, but more general and surprising as a whole :D The FIRST in general category will most likely be the one with game "stuff" as i'll call it. And as far as the team section goes, it will have something including every team, completely unbiased, and more general knowledge about them. Its the section that actually gave us the idea for this game, so its our primary goal to make this section. But right now, before we write any questions (or set anything in stone), we're more concerned about the interest level and what a reasonable cost to YOU is, before we start to actually develop the game. Thanks for the suggestions :) |
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I think an expansion pack or even a FIRST Jeopardy would be a good idea. Maybe one that can be played on the computer or on the tv. I would pay between 10 and 20 dollars depending on what "style" you went with. Maybe you could have safety rules as a category? There are some pretty well-known rules that would be good.
This sounds like a great idea. I have a feeling that you will only be able to sell it within the FIRST community though. I can't wait to see where this goes. Please keep on putting up updates so teams all the way in NH can buy them! |
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I remember seeing something on these forums that seemed very similar. If it has a really nice GUI for it and has a giant question bank I wouldn't mind paying 10 bucks for a download hosted from a team's website. The questions could also be suggested and validated by admin. This would also allow you to have video, picture, and sound questions. IE: Picture of a robot with its number erased... |
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I think there are open source Jeopardy! client programs available, if I recall correctly, that allow this kind of thing to happen. Being able to purchase (or just use) question sets would be kind of cool? Though that doesn't really seem like a good fund raiser anymore.
I want to play FRC Monopoly... |
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We recently discussed where we saw this going, and found that the categories were very similar (in some cases) and noted that there were some technical issues as far as questions were concerned. Because of this, we decided to change the categories (slightly).
The NEW categories Games: all about FRC games, ranging from rules, names, and various other game related topics; example: Hexagon Havic was played in what year? (1997) Engineering: questions about engineering, robot specs, gear ratios, etc.; example: What were the dimension restrictions for the 2009 game Lunacy? (38" by 28" by 60") Programming: ALL about programming; example: The popular LabVIEW software was introduced to FIRST teams in what year? (2009) Pop Culture: Questions about FIRST teams and the "FIRST culture," including its involvement in society (merged with the media category); example: What company does Dean Kamen work for? (DEKA) Non-Technical: Questions about anything not relating to the robot, including common knowledge, awards criteria, and anything else FIRST related (primary focus is awards criteria); example: What percentage must your website score to get website excellence? (80%) All About FIRST: Questions about/relating to FIRST; example: What year was FIRST founded in? (1989) In addition, in the best interests of costs and restrictions on printing of cards, we decided to cut the count in half, so there would be 500 question cards, instead of 1,000. We also discussed adding a "all about FIRST teams" expansion set later on, depending on the success of the game above. :D |
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1997 was Torroid Terror, which led to the "No intentional detachment" rule due to some teams scoring using parts of their robots that detached.
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After a very long and thorough discussion on our team, we came to the conclusion that some of the categories were lacking, so we slightly changed the categories to fit everyone's interests :D
Games: all about FRC games, ranging from rules, names, and various other game related topics; example: Hexagon Havic was played in what year? (1996) Technically Speaking: questions about engineering, programming, robot specs, gear ratios, etc.; example: What were the dimension restrictions for the 2009 game Lunacy? (38" by 28" by 60") Miscellaneous: anything FIRST related; includes the media and pop culture categories; example: What company does Dean Kamen work for? (DEKA) Non-Technical: Questions about anything not relating to the robot, including common knowledge, awards criteria, and anything else FIRST related (primary focus is awards criteria); example: What percentage must your website score to get website excellence? (80%) All About FIRST: Questions about/relating to FIRST; example: What year was FIRST founded? (1989) Go Teams!: all about teams, with special emphasis on their accolades and achievements; example: the first team to win the chairman's award* was who? (191 X-Cats, 1992) *RCA wasn't introduced until 10 years later, thus the national chairman's award was the only chairman's award I hope these are better :) |
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Hey, I just wanted to connect this thread to the Interest in Trivial FIRST thread. Please vote there and help us find out how many will need! Thanks!
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I feel like Trivial Pursuit could only be played by FIRST-ers... but I do like it. I think a category for every team is a difficult one and rookie teams will be uninformed and left out... maybe the only team to win National Chairman's or stuff that's like - indesputable - but categories are difficult to make that remain applicable. Recalling Game Rules excludes teams who did not play that game... Maybe include founder facts - things not everyone would know but, they'd be equally uninformed. Thus, everyone would learn... Speaking of Monopoly: If you made Monopoly... FIRSTers would appreciate it but anyone could play it. You could make properties Regionals and Boardwalk could be Nationals... the pieces could be the robots from the animations and Chance and Community Chest cards could be based on rule violations and winning awards and such (and have other names I haven't thought of.) |
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It would make more sense, in my opinion (at the risk of some drama) to make the color groups teams rather than regionals. Regionals aren't bad, though. As long as the Oranges are the best. :D
I was thinking railroads would equal drive systems (skid steer / mecanum / holonomic / swerve) but I like divisions better :D |
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"Go" could be kickoff and free parking could be the pit area and have a robot instead of a car on the space. But what about jail and "go to jail"??
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How about making jail the offseason? And then there are the utilities...
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I was thinking that IRI would actually be Park Place, with Championship being Boardwalk. What else can compare?
Utilities could be... motors? KOP stuff? cnc machines? |
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How about FTC and FLL for utilities? Or if you want to stick with FRC for the game, then it could be pit admin and scoring table...Or you could keep electric company and change water works to metal works...
For pieces, there could be safety glasses, a robot, and then maybe some game pieces from past games. |
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Free Parking – Pit area
Go to Jail – Go to penalty box Jail – Penalty box Go – Kickoff Community Chest – Red Alliance Railroads – Divisions from the Championships Chance – Blue Alliance Electric Company – Cost of new tools and stuff Income Tax – Registration payment Luxury Tax – Team shirts Water Works – Lunch/food for those all day builds! Houses – Nut or bolt Hotels – Gear Game Pieces – Safety glasses, screwdrivers, a punch, drill, wrench, hammer, ect… |
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Great idea, but you're going about this wrong. I won't reiterate the concerns about profit margins, law suits, etc, however I am going to present you with another solution.
Make this into a webapp. I realize that you won't get any money from it, but it would really benefit the FIRST community. I know that if you made it very technical oriented (ie, quizes about the cRIO and programming and less about the history of FIRST), it would be a PERFECT way to train new team members! Anyways, just a though. |
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