Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

I've collected some "typical" cost data for FLL,VRC, and FTC. The FLL and FTC cost data came from FIRST WA and USFIRST sources, and the VRC data came from me :) (we are in our fourth year running a multi-team VEX program, so I consider "me" a pretty reliable source). I've included FLL as it is FIRST's middle-school program, and VRC is also used by a number of middle school programs.

Disclaimer: Like Rich Kressley, I consult for IFI.

I estimated costs for a classroom-sized team with four robots for all programs, and estimated costs for the initial year of competition, and then the second year when fewer parts must be purchased. None of the cost estimates include shipping or taxes. Link to spreadsheet: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2285

First year cost estimates for four teams:

VEX Robotics Competition: $3,596
FIRST LEGO League: $3,095
FIRST Tech Challenge: $6,796

Additional year cost estimates for four teams:

VEX Robotics Competition: $800
FIRST LEGO League: $1,365
FIRST Tech Challenge: $2,796

If you go to the linked spreadsheet it is pretty easy to change the values to ones that seem good to you. I hope you enjoy playing with the spreadsheet, and make sure you look at the "Expense Graphs" tab, too.

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

Using "me" as a credible source sometimes leads to the paradox of knowledge: you can't unlearn what you now know as fact and don't remember not knowing so long ago.

Sigh, the rest is in a PM. :rolleyes:

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

JesseK sent me a thoughtful PM, and I encourage you to do what JesseK did -- pull up the spreadsheet and enter your own figures.

This year, VEX is introducing a new WiFi controller and field management system, which some tournaments will require this year and others won't. The spreadsheet has a line item for this, which was left blank when I ran my numbers. If you include the $149 upgrade as a first-year expense, and purchase an extra remote control and some extra $20 motors, the first year VRC expense for four teams goes up to a little under $5,000.

Similarly, I based the FTC numbers off of what FIRST says, including $300 for "additional parts." Last year, our FTC teams spent far more than that -- at least $500 per team, mostly for extra gears, motor and servo controllers, and replacement motors. Since the new FTC rules seem to allow ANY LEGO component, and not just the ones in the FTC kit, I foresee teams spending more on LEGO than they did last year. Your mileage may vary, so pull up that spreadsheet and put in your own numbers.

JesseK also said that the recurring costs are higher than I estimated. In our experience, we plan to budget about 20% of parts cost per year in upgrades and replacements. I used lower figures than that for both FTC and VRC, but for MY teams (who tend to spend pretty heavily) we would use the higher numbers. I included lower numbers for recurring costs than our own teams' expenses, but we also buy things like aluminum frame kits and all the new parts that come out, so we are at the high end. I see lots of successful VEX robots that clearly cost less than ours. We are also a fourth-year program that has never stopped raising money, so we can afford the new toys.

Honest, I wasn't trying to pull a fast one here. Use the spreadsheet (or don't) to figure out the financial aspect of which is the best program for you. Obviously, money is only one aspect of this decision, so don't forget to look at other things like how well a certain program meets your own educational goals, local tournament availability, and local volunteer support.

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

LOL

so this morning I got an email from our robotics teacher that the kids in our Elementary Robotics course chose the VEX game and kit over the FTC game and kit. 22 kids in each of the elem robotics classes didn't want to work on the FTC robot at all....that's kinda telling me something important.:rolleyes:

I liked the FTC game A LOT this year and I'm pretty bummed I won't be mentoring a team to build a robot for it.

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

I'd pick the Vex kit, but the FTC game personally... I'm surprised that not one person would want to do FTC...

Anyway, this means that you and I have to make a team! :D

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

I'm pretty sure that these students were given some prior information other than simply "Hey, choose one." That would probably have influenced their decision.

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

Actually playing with the kits will usually do it.

With Vex, they have lots of wheels and tank treads and spur gears and roller chain and omni wheels and bevel gears and differential gears and worm gears and high strength chain and grippy tank tread attachments and intake rollers and motors that don't burn out and a huge variety of metal parts and linear glides and the list goes on and on.

Whether there is a FIRST or VEX banner at the competition, the kids still have fun and still get inspired. (And isn't that the whole point of this? To inspire kids?) So it comes down to the kits (and costs), and practically everyone I've talked to (students and mentors) gives the advantage to Vex in both categories hands down.

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

This is really kind of a religious/political argument (like Mac vs PC)

Both sides have reasons they like what they do, and there are people that are adamant that they are right and there are people that can go either way.

artdutra04 wrote:
That's really the most important thing.

When you compare the two, the students that have used both and prefer VEX have good points. But the people that I've talked to that made the decision to switch from VEX to Tetrix also have really good things to say about the new stuff.

VEX is a more mature product, Tetrix is the new upstart. Yes, strictly from a cost standpoint VEX is cheaper. Strictly from a structural quality, Tetrix is better. We could go on and on with a comparison, but really it's more of a preference thing.

We decided to go with Tetrix because A) we'd never used either, B) we wanted to stay within the FIRST organization, C) since it was new, and so were we, we'd all (all the teams) be starting at the same level playing field.

If I was a brand new team that had no experience with either VEX or FTC this year, I'd probably come to exactly the same decision, for exactly the same reasons...

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

Want to explain that one?

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

Their 2008-9 robot makes good use of VEX materials: http://www.technoguards.org/sites/de...s/DSCN1638.jpg.

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

I can't say I've ever bent a structural component of any Vex robot I've worked with (other than shaft, usually end up case hardening it). The metal material is rigid enough in my opinion... and considering it's half the price I can't really complain.

I still stand by my statement that Vex is an all around better platform. I don't like to use computers just to drive my robot, I like having my own controllers at competitions, I like having tank treads and not having to machine any parts at all (I have never had to build a vex robot with more than a hacksaw), I like IFI... if there are flaws in the Vex kit it's in the sprocket / chain system and plastic gears under high loads, but you can design around those and it's not like FTC's one upped Vex there.

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

When a robot (any "middleweight" robot) is bending VEX metal, it's time to reconsider the design...

I've always been curious, because last year I had the impression that Tetrix motors were better than VEX ones. Looking at FTC matches at Atlanta, the robots weren't moving that much faster than VRC ones in Dallas. Is that because they were geared way down?

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

For those of us old enough to remember the ad campaign

tastes great
less filling

Tastes Great!
Less Filling!

Tastes Great!!
Less Filling!!

TASTES GREAT!!!!
LESS FILLING!!!

Etc.
;)

Re: [FTC]: FVC (Vex) VS. FTC (Tetrix)
 

That's funny, I was thinking of the Pepsi Challenge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepsi_Challenge